Tactics

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-07 05:01pm

I did not give up on Species 8472, its just that the topic is going off cource, so I have created this one...

STAR WARS TACTICS

During the ROTJ, Vader and the Emperor knew of the Rebels landing on Endor, they did nothing, considering them to be, "No Matter" This was a big mistake, they were stronger than to be believed. I am sure the Empire would have known about Ewoks while building the Generator?

The Death Star was a "fully operational battle station" but she never did fire any of her weapons, except for her superlaser, which was only seen firing once. If she was strong enough to take on an attacking Capital Fleet, then why didnt she?

They relyed on the planets shield generator too much, the stations built in generator should have been one of the first things completed. But of course they did cunderstamate the Rebels.

The Super Star Destroyer was too close to such a big station. They were so stupid, they had little time to activate a secondary bridge before gravity got the best of them.

As stated in the Thrawn Trilogy, the Emperor had mental control over the Empire. One reason they were so strong. When he died the remaining imperial forces did not know what to do. This is all due to the Emperors overconfidence, and inability to read Vaders mind.

I think in a Star Trek/Star Wars conflict would result in this way...

1. The feds meet Empire, empire fascinated by humans FROM ANOTHER GALAXY,
2. Technology exchange
3. Empire bullys alien member of Federation.
4. Federation does not like this, Empire attacks and crushes them.
5. Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian/Gorn/Tholian/Kelvan/ Alliance goes into hiding, prepairing for War
6. The Rebels discover the new Galaxy when the Empire sends the Death Star to it.
7. Rebels make contact with Alpha Quadrent Alliance.
8. technology exchange once again.
9. War Begines...

Zaku-chan · Post by **Zaku-chan** » 2002-12-07 05:04pm

5. Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian/Gorn/Tholian/Kelvan/ Alliance goes into hiding, prepairing for War

HA! The old, "we're all buddies now" argument. Bullshit. It's like the Muslims and Hindus when Britain took over India. Did they instantly unite against a stronger foe? FUCK, NO! You are an idiot for assuming these groups would be any better.

Zaku-chan · Post by **Zaku-chan** » 2002-12-07 05:13pm

Sovereign wrote:I think in a Star Trek/Star Wars conflict would result in this way...

1. The feds meet Empire, empire fascinated by humans FROM ANOTHER GALAXY,

Or not. They'll be more interested in the territory.

2. Technology exchange

Yeah right. You think the Empire will give away any kind of tech? They'll want to keep a potential enemy as far down the food chain as possible.

3. Empire bullys alien member of Federation.

Empire menaces the entire AQ while they're at it.

4. Federation does not like this, Empire attacks and crushes them.

You got that part right.

5. Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian/Gorn/Tholian/Kelvan/ Alliance goes into hiding, prepairing for War

HA! The old, "we're all buddies now" argument. Bullshit. It's like the Muslims and Hindus when Britain took over India. Did they instantly unite against a stronger foe? FUCK, NO! You are an idiot for assuming these groups would be any better.

6. The Rebels discover the new Galaxy when the Empire sends the Death Star to it.

And do what? Fly through an Empire-guarded wormhole to make contact with a technologically brain-dead group compared to them?

7. Rebels make contact with Alpha Quadrent Alliance.

And have just as much trouble working with them as they do with easch other.

8. technology exchange once again.

Tech hand-me-downs from the Rebels, more likely.

9. War Begines...

War ends, because the Empire's been wiping out all AQ resistance while the groups have been bickering.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2002-12-07 05:16pm

won`t the othr races see the Empire as human and not BOTHER to ally with the Federation?

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2002-12-07 05:24pm

Yeah that certainly sounds like the Empire. They have found a galaxy with humans (easy to assimilate into their culture) and has technology so inferior a war would be a slaughter. So what do they do? Give tech to them!

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-12-07 05:25pm

At best, they would treat the Empire as a splinter group of the Federation, meaning that the Romulans, Cardassians, and Jem'Hadar will either attack instantly or roll over and give up in fear. The Klingons will be confused for a while, IMHO, because they seem to take a while to react to anything (re: ST1, where they didn't admit to knowing about V'Ger until they'd lost significant holdings). The Vulcans will start saying it's not logical to resist such a strong group until they discover the xenophobia. They will then switch to the opposite extreme to save their asses, causing them to lose credibility in the eyes of the Federation.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-07 06:27pm

The idiot is at it again I see. Sovereign, do you ever READ any of the rebuttlas anyone posts to your morinic arguments? PLEASE, someone get a moderator to give him his much over due VI title!

Sovereign wrote:I did not give up on Species 8472, its just that the topic is going off cource, so I have created this one...

STAR WARS TACTICS

During the ROTJ, Vader and the Emperor knew of the Rebels landing on Endor, they did nothing, considering them to be, "No Matter" This was a big mistake, they were stronger than to be believed. I am sure the Empire would have known about Ewoks while building the Generator?

Hello, hello, anybody home? The whole Endor situation was a TRAP. If the Rebels somehow find out that the shuttle never made it to the planet's surface, they won't attack and the whole trap plan will be wasted.

The Death Star was a "fully operational battle station" but she never did fire any of her weapons, except for her superlaser, which was only seen firing once. If she was strong enough to take on an attacking Capital Fleet, then why didnt she?

The turbolasers on the surface of the Death Star WERE firing. We see them shooting at the fighters as the fighters race along the surface of the DS to the tunnel leading to the reactor.

They relyed on the planets shield generator too much, the stations built in generator should have been one of the first things completed. But of course they did understamate the Rebels.

The part of the DS that was most critical to the plan was the Super Laser. THAT was what would make the trap so convincing since it could easily destroy rebel cruisers with one shot and discourage any further acts of rebellion in the future.

The Super Star Destroyer was too close to such a big station. They were so stupid, they had little time to activate a secondary bridge before gravity got the best of them.

1) The gravity of the DS was not sufficient to accelerate the SSD as much as we observed in the movie. Therefore, it was the SSD's OWN ENGINES that caused it to crash into the DS.
2) They only had about 10 (ten) seconds to activate any secondary controls. Thats not nearly enough time for anyone.

As stated in the Thrawn Trilogy, the Emperor had mental control over the Empire. One reason they were so strong. When he died the remaining imperial forces did not know what to do. This is all due to the Emperors overconfidence, and inability to read Vaders mind.

So what? Whats your point?

I think in a Star Trek/Star Wars conflict would result in this way...

No one gives a damn what morons think.

1. The feds meet Empire, empire fascinated by humans FROM ANOTHER GALAXY,
2. Technology exchange

Please justify this moronic assumption since the Empire clearly has a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy.

3. Empire bullys alien member of Federation.

AFTER the Empire has completely obliterated or conquored the Federation.

4. Federation does not like this, Empire attacks and crushes them.

Since the federation government wouldn't exist at this point, #4 simply can't happen.

5. Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian/Gorn/Tholian/Kelvan/ Alliance goes into hiding, prepairing for War

Riiight. Just like they all banded together to fight the borg and the dominion. Oh wait, that DIDN'T happen. And even IF it did, the Empire still has them all out numbered and out gunned by about ohhhh a million to one.

6. The Rebels discover the new Galaxy when the Empire sends the Death Star to it.
7. Rebels make contact with Alpha Quadrent Alliance.

The mere fact that you need the Rebels to join your non-existant alliance proves that you KNOW the Empire will crush the Alpha Quadrant's pitiful numbers and technology.

8. technology exchange once again.

Since imperial technology is so far advanced ahead of Federation tech, this would be like trying to get cavemen to analyze a Pentium computer. It's NOT gonna work.

9. War Begines...

And is over within a couple weeks TOPS.

Scorpius · Post by **Scorpius** » 2002-12-07 06:27pm

How many of the victims of the prime directive in/near Federation territory, who've been shut out of trade, technology, military support etc. would sign up with the Empire and give them rights on their planets so that they could get a little payback from those arrogant pricks at Starfleet Command? And if Starfleet starts something because of it, there's a perfect justification for increased Imperial Navy presence in the area...

The war would start and end on the Empire's timetable. The so-called allies would screw each other over to see who gets the preferable position of first to surrender and collaberate once their home planets start getting superlasered.

The rebels?? If you're running a guerrilla war: hit and run, soft-target terror attacks etc. do you want to be stuck supporting a slow, strategically remote, technologically stunted ally who will scream at you for not wasting all your assets for THEM the second Kronos or Earth suffers the fate of Alderaan? Yeah, right!

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2002-12-07 06:29pm

Just read Wongs fanfiction, Conquest. It's a great read.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-07 06:29pm

Soverign is this a convoluted way of admitting your wrong?

Your talkign utter bullshit here man. We'll all be friends? give me a break kid. At best the Empire would see them as alien lovers at worse they empire would see them as socially retarded alien lovers and shoot them all out of mercy.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2002-12-07 07:02pm

--9. War Begines...--

How are you gentlemen !!
All your base are belong to us
You are on the way to destruction
You have no chance to survive make your time

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-07 07:13pm

Sovereign wrote:I did not give up on Species 8472, its just that the topic is going off cource, so I have created this one...

Thanks entirely to you.

STAR WARS TACTICS

During the ROTJ, Vader and the Emperor knew of the Rebels landing on Endor, they did nothing, considering them to be, "No Matter"

He had a trap set up for them, they could not win. The Ewoks turned the tide.

This was a big mistake, they were stronger than to be believed.

Nope, he had them beat, the Ewoks are what turned the tides, that and Chewie stealing the AT-ST.

I am sure the Empire would have known about Ewoks while building the Generator?

Even if they knew they were there, it wouldn't of mattered, they obviously didn't see them as a threat. Their mistake.

The Death Star was a "fully operational battle station" but she never did fire any of her weapons, except for her superlaser, which was only seen firing once.

Firstly they only fired the superlaser because they wanted to show it's ability it be fired on ship sized targets. Then they did something unexpected and flew right up to the SDs. And if I'm not mistaken not all of the ships went to engage the SDs, some stayed behind.

If she was strong enough to take on an attacking Capital Fleet, then why didnt she?

They pulled too close the the ISDs, and she was trapped in a protecive shield.

They relyed on the planets shield generator too much, the stations built in generator should have been one of the first things completed. But of course they did cunderstamate the Rebels.

Planetary shields > than ship shields, they don't have power being diverted to superlasers, other weaponry, the ships systems, etc.

Super Star Destroyer was too close to such a big station. They were so stupid, they had little time to activate a secondary bridge before gravity got the best of them.

They were trying to trap the rebels, plus if you remember the scene where luke is watching the battle, it's pretty far off, just a testimate to Wars propulsion.

As stated in the Thrawn Trilogy, the Emperor had mental control over the Empire. One reason they were so strong.

He help direct them in battle, inproving accuracy and co-operation between vessels, he didn't control every mind in the empire.

When he died the remaining imperial forces did not know what to do. This is all due to the Emperors overconfidence, and inability to read Vaders mind.

They still held them off for, what? 17 years before they finally surrendered.

I think in a Star Trek/Star Wars conflict would result in this way...

1. The feds meet Empire, empire fascinated by humans FROM ANOTHER GALAXY,

Why fascinated? They've had FTL speed for tens of thousands of years, and humans have spread all over their galaxy more than any other race.

2. Technology exchange

Why, their ships are grotescly inferior to the Empires, why would they give them leaps and bounds in military technology for some luxury and medical tech, when they could just as easily rape their fleets, steal thier scientist and incorperate what tech they'd want.

3. Empire bullys alien member of Federation.

If by bully you mean conquer and opress then yes, they'll royally own all of the Feds friends and allys along with them.

4. Federation does not like this, Empire attacks and crushes them.

Hard for a non-exsist goverment to disagree.

5. Federation/Klingon/Romulan/Cardassian/Gorn/Tholian/Kelvan/ Alliance goes into hiding, prepairing for War

What few ships didn't get distroyed by the Imps won't stand much chance against a squadren of TIE Bombers.

6. The Rebels discover the new Galaxy when the Empire sends the Death Star to it.

Not much use, in a wormhole situation, the empire will have it guarded like the Kuat Shipyards, and if it's hyperdrive-able then they'll quickly find their's nothing left to help them.

7. Rebels make contact with Alpha Quadrent Alliance.

All they could do is give them troops to train to man some systems on ships. A lot of the rebels had previous empire training that made them useful, these guys are totally worthless to the Rebels, they won't beable to control in planet with resources, the Imps would have taken them soon after getting starcharts from surrendered worlds.

8. technology exchange once again.

The rebels would only want tech that could help them defeat the Empire, which trek has none of. And it would be very difficult to upgrade Trek ships when upgrading wars ships like the Mon Cal Crusiers would be far more beneficial.

9. War Begines...

War ends in seconds.

Sorry, but even if your situation went perfectly in your favor, they still wouldn't have enough to defeat the Empire. They don't have the ability to build ships large enough to hold imp power sources to provide enough power to charge imp weaponry and shields. As far as we know they have no access to Tiabanna gas, and if they do, it would take time they don't have to build an structure to mine the gas. Not to mention they have nothing to offer the Imps for those technologies, maybe smaller techs, but not anything that would help them in a war.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-07 07:16pm

Oh, BTW this breaks one of the commandments of debate, they won't fight. Sure your scenario has them fighting in the end, but they don't fight in the begining, and thats the thing.

Your scenario is Imp ships vs Trek ships with Imp weapons(which they couldn't use anyways, not because of unablity to reverse engineer, but the lack of power).

Concession Accepted.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-12-07 07:20pm

--9. War Begines...--

How are you gentlemen !!
All your base are belong to us
You are on the way to destruction
You have no chance to survive make your time

wow, that just about summons up this "war"

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-12-07 07:23pm

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2002-12-07 08:31pm

You're expecting the Feds to win?
Look above.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-12-07 08:42pm

The mighty red X is in the imperial arsenal - god help the feds,

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-12-07 08:54pm

image not appearing

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2002-12-07 09:04pm

Lets be generous here, and assume the tech exchange was a result of the Hutts selling it or something, even though I'd love to hear how smuggling ships get through what would be a heavily guarded wormhole.

It won't do a damn thing. Even back when a GCS and an ISD were assumed equal to each other, the AQ and BQ got the floor wiped with them do to sheer industrial might.

Of course, even then it is no good, as the only tech they could use would be Wars missile tech. Anything else would require a total return to the drawing board and a new class of ships from scratch. The construction time on a Galaxy class or Soverign class is 6 years. 6 years of pure construction, during wartime production I might add. And that is not tacking on the test trials, reverse engineering, and basic design work that must be added on. The war would be over well before then.

What part of "The AQ has no chance" do you not understand?

Captain tycho · Post by **Captain tycho** » 2002-12-07 09:07pm

starfury wrote:image not appearing

Ya.
Something wrong with my connection settings, it keeps asking for dial-up, but I use cable.
And it keeps working offline even though I have it set to connect.
Any answers?
Im using XP Pro.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-07 10:35pm

Sovereign- your erroneous discussion of the events of ROTJ is a massive red herring- how does any of that relate to ST vs SW?

In addition, you obviously haven't thought about the events of ROTJ too hard- which has been rebutted sufficiently except for one point-

THE EMPEROR IS THE EMPIRE

The only reason the Empire lost was because Vader killed the Emperor. If the Death Star had been destroyed but the Empire had still been alive, there's little doubt he would have escaped. The loss of the DS2 itself was a drop in the ocean, and was simply a massive trap to lure the Rebels. The Emperor's greatest mistake was in overestimating the hold of the Dark Side on Anakin Skywalker.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-07 10:40pm

Captain tycho wrote:http://www.desktopstarships.com/SwImage ... star02.jpg

You're expecting the Feds to win?
Look above.

There was a typo in your image link.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2002-12-08 02:07am

Sovereign wrote:The Death Star was a "fully operational battle station" but she never did fire any of her weapons, except for her superlaser, which was only seen firing once.

Twice. The idiot can't even count.

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-08 12:40pm

I think this is a funny picture, you see the "Big Bad Wolf" representing the "Big Bad Empire" and the little rabbit resembling the Federation, but the bottom of the pic shows the Worf eaten and the Rabbit alive and well.

Nice Choice!

Sovereign · Post by **Sovereign** » 2002-12-08 01:18pm

Decades after the disastrous Battle of Endor, our saviour finally arose from the ashes of the Empire. He bore the noble bloodline of Vader and the dark power of the Sith. It was under his leadership that the Empire was reborn. It is under his leadership that we shall accomplish the unprecedented: the conquest of a new galaxy. A galaxy bereft of strong leadership. The galaxy of Star Trek!

Ok then, lets continue with this plot...

1. The Empire has been crushed, The New Republic is in Power and continues to keep an eye on the Old Empire.

2. When large amounts of Imperial ships are constructed, the NR sends in a small force of ships, (lead by Luke Skywalker of course), to investigate.

3. NR dicovers wormhole and a small battle takes place.

4. Skywalker and this new "Saviour" duke it out, and the "Saviour" runs to fight another day by flying through the wormhole.

5. The "Saviour" is followed by the NR and they get lost in the Gamma Quadrent, while the NR gets lost in the Beta Quadrent.

6. The "New Empire" meets a small groupe of Dominion renegades who believes the War with the Alpha Quadrent should continue, and the help the "New Empire" with starmaps and production facilities.

7. The NR find the Romulans and Klingons, telling them of the Danger the "New Empire" is creating.

8. The Klingons introduce the Federation to the NR and the Federation alows the NR help in preparing for an invasion.

9. The "New Empire" built all the production facilities they needed and killed off Their "New Aliance" with the Dominion Renegades.

10. The Real Dominion fights the Empire and put up a very good fight, but in the End the numbers of Imperial ships continues to grow bigger and bigger, and the Dominion is overwhelmed.

11. A lone Dominion ship passes through the Bajorian Wormhole telling DS9 of the Empire, the message is sent to Starfleet and the NR fears the Worse.

12. With no reinforcements, the NR must help train the Federation is Hyperdrive technology, (by using Starfleets versian of the Coaxial Warp Core)

13. Finding it faster to go through the Bajorian Wormhole, the Empire quickly takes DS9 and moves into the Cardassian Space, who stands no chances of fighting back due to the losses of the Dominion War.

14. The NR provides defence for the New aliance of the Federation/Klingons/Romulans.

15. Aliance vessels are fitted with Ablative armor and Transphasic Torpedoes.

16. The Aliance, (Feds/NR/Klingons/Romulans), attack and destroy the Imperial ships in the Alpha Quadrent.

17. The NR ships enter the wormhole and the Federation, Klingons, and Romuland use the Coaxial Warp Drive to suprise the Empire.

18. Skywalker goes at it again with the "saviour" and Luke kills him.

19. The battle rages and Both sides take heavy losses, but without the "saviour" the Empire surrenders to the NR.

20. Finding the Wormhole the NR takes the remaining Imperial forces back home, and the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans send Ambassadors with them, to join this NR.

21. Life goes on...

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