Teenager fined £80 for swear word

Dominus Atheos · Post by **Dominus Atheos** » 2006-02-26 01:11am

A teenager is refusing to pay an £80 on-the-spot fine imposed by a police officer who overheard him swearing in a private conversation with friends.

Kurt Walker, 18, from Deal, Kent, said he would go to court rather than pay the fine handed out in a town park.

He said he received the fixed-penalty notice after he used the F-word to a group of friends he met in the park.

Kent Police said fixed penalty notices were just one tool to help them to tackle anti-social behaviour.

Kurt Walker wrote:In my eyes I have not committed any crime whatsoever

Student Mr Walker was on his way to a youth centre where he works as a volunteer when he stopped to talk to friends.

"One of my mates said, 'What have you been up to', and I swore when I replied," he said.

"I was shocked when the female police officer gave me the fine, very shocked.

"It is not every day you swear and you get an £80 fine. It is just absurd, really."

Mr Walker is adamant he will not pay the fine and will challenge the penalty notice in court next month.

'Not normal'

"In my eyes I have not committed any crime whatsoever," he said, adding that swearing was a normal part of the language he and his friends use.

Dover District Council's anti-social behaviour unit works closely with Kent Police to tackle bad behaviour.

"Swearing and abusive behaviour certainly is not normal behaviour and I feel it should never be used in a public place," said councillor Julie Rook.

A Kent Police spokeswoman said: "The public expect us to tackle anti-social behaviour.

"If Mr Walker is not happy he can have his case decided by a court."

Fuck fuckity fuckfuckfuck, come get me assholes.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-02-26 01:18am

"Swearing and abusive behaviour certainly is not normal behaviour and I feel it should never be used in a public place," said councillor Julie Rook.

I'm assuming she's never set foot inside a High School then. Or, you know, walked around outside for any period of time.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-02-26 03:04am

Thank whatever god there may or may not be that I'm not living in Great Britain...

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2006-02-26 05:28am

"Swearing and abusive behaviour certainly is not normal behaviour and I feel it should never be used in a public place," said councillor Julie Rook.

And who is this woman to lecture the public on what is acceptable language? {and what abusive behaviour?}. Perhaps she has never heard of freedom of speech, but that would never excuse imposing her, or her council, feelings apon that of others.

Prozac the Robert · Post by **Prozac the Robert** » 2006-02-26 07:27am

Fuck them. That's my response.

Anyone know anything about fixed penalty notices? Are they handed out for specific crimes, or just on a whim? If he goes to court, does that mean he's charged with something?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-02-26 07:36am

Molyneux wrote:Thank whatever god there may or may not be that I'm not living in Great Britain...

Don't speak too soon. Penn & Teller have shown there are whole organisations in the US that try to promote "family values" which exclude swearing.

This is absurd. I dislike kids mindlessly swearing for the sake of it, but I'm not going to fine them for it. If you can't have a normal conversation without having several expletives in one sentence, then there is something lacking in your vocab skills. But if you use a swear word where it actually, shock horror, has legit effect, then who's to tell you to pay up for some arbitrary peace breaking rule?

Prozac the Robert wrote:Fuck them. That's my response.

Anyone know anything about fixed penalty notices? Are they handed out for specific crimes, or just on a whim? If he goes to court, does that mean he's charged with something?

This won't go to court. The PC's CO will give her a talk on how not to be an ass, then apologise to the kid.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-02-26 07:39am

So she wants to

tackle anti-social behaviour

by fining a guy who was

on his way to a youth centre where he works as a volunteer

Yes, that'll starighten out those kids :rolleyes:

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-02-26 08:02am

I know that swearing to a police officer when they're trying to deal with a drunk can get you arrested, not from personal experience, but from those "fly on the wall documentaries," and I was appalled even then. This is just fucking retarded, it's the content of what you say that defines antisociability, not what offends some victorian fecophiliac. There's no right to not be offended, and antisocial/threatening laws shouldn't be so thin as to allow vernacular swearing by an adult to cost £80.

I'm 98% sure the court will agree with me, too.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2006-02-26 08:07am

The Article wrote:Kent Police said fixed penalty notices were just one tool to help them to tackle anti-social behaviour.

A Kent Police spokeswoman said: "The public expect us to tackle anti-social behaviour.

Dover District Council's anti-social behaviour unit works closely with Kent Police to tackle bad behaviour.

So, a police unit devoted entirely to getting rid of "anti-social behaviour?" Sounds like Orwell to me, folks.

This is bullshit. Fuck you, Kent.

Macunaima · Post by **Macunaima** » 2006-02-26 08:27am

This story reminds me of that Sylvester Stallone movie from early 90's, Demolition Man, where "automatic fine machines" keep given him fines on the spot just for swearing in public. Let's just hope anyone in the District Council does not watch that movie, otherwise they may find it a good idea those machines...!

Old Peculier · Post by **Old Peculier** » 2006-02-26 08:54am

A fucking stupid councillor wrote:Swearing and abusive behaviour certainly is not normal behaviour and I feel it should never be used in a public place

Where the hell did she get the idea that it was abusive from?
Sure, I wasn't actually there, but it sounds to me that it was mere casual swearing, not intended to actually insult anyone. And even then, how do you get from insulting to abusive?

If someone had called the Labour Party a bunch of morons in a public place, as accurate as that might be, could that be called abusive behaviour? I hope not.

Out of curiosity, if this officer had just quietly asked them not to swear in public, and not issued a fine, would you think of this as acceptable, or do you think police should keep their noses out of other people's business in these situations?

Lord Zentei · Post by **Lord Zentei** » 2006-02-26 08:57am

Old Peculier wrote:Out of curiosity, if this officer had just quietly asked them not to swear in public, and not issued a fine, would you think of this as acceptable, or do you think police should keep their noses out of other people's business in these situations?

It was a private conversation. He was harassing no one. It was none of her concern.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-02-26 09:13am

Sooner or later, they're going to start fining people for grammar errors.

I hope he'll set a precedent in court because this is unfathomable.

Old Peculier · Post by **Old Peculier** » 2006-02-26 09:20am

Lord Zentei wrote:It was a private conversation. He was harassing no one. It was none of her concern.

My view precisely m'Lord

I don't like the anti-social behaviour laws, and I'm not too fond of the on the spot fine idea either, although I guess it has its moments. Put them together though and its ridiculous. How does this officer have the right to judge what is and what is not anti-social and then issue a fine?

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2006-02-26 11:24am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:Don't speak too soon. Penn & Teller have shown there are whole organisations in the US that try to promote "family values" which exclude swearing.

And, like this cop, they don't care about the context of the swear.

People who are opposed to swearing like this don't seem to give a shit if you speak with hate. They just don't want you saying "Fuck" while you're doing it. So I suppose they'd be okay with bile-filled racist ranting, just so long as you say it eloquently.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2006-02-26 12:01pm

Fleet Admiral JD wrote: So, a police unit devoted entirely to getting rid of "anti-social behaviour?" Sounds like Orwell to me, folks.

This is bullshit. Fuck you, Kent.

"Anti-Social Behavior" covers things like vandalisim, drugs, drunken behaviour and stuff like racial abuse.

Very orwellian.

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-02-26 12:40pm

Sharp-kun wrote:
Fleet Admiral JD wrote: So, a police unit devoted entirely to getting rid of "anti-social behaviour?" Sounds like Orwell to me, folks.

This is bullshit. Fuck you, Kent.
"Anti-Social Behavior" covers things like vandalisim, drugs, drunken behaviour and stuff like racial abuse.

Very orwellian.

Vandalism, drugs, and abuse are not only anti-social behavior, they are CRIMES. They were crimes long before an anti-'anti-social behaviour' unit was created.

If swearing can be considered as antisocial behavior, then that sounds too damn Orwellian for comfort to me.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2006-02-26 12:49pm

Molyneux wrote: Vandalism, drugs, and abuse are not only anti-social behavior, they are CRIMES. They were crimes long before an anti-'anti-social behaviour' unit was created.

Yes but they are being dealt with in a partiuclar manner, mainly through the use of ASBO's instead of jail time.

Complaining about a unit set up to deal with a specific kind of crime is rather odd, do special homicide or narcotic units also come in for criticism?

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-02-26 02:45pm

TheDarkling wrote:
Molyneux wrote: Vandalism, drugs, and abuse are not only anti-social behavior, they are CRIMES. They were crimes long before an anti-'anti-social behaviour' unit was created.
Yes but they are being dealt with in a partiuclar manner, mainly through the use of ASBO's instead of jail time.

Complaining about a unit set up to deal with a specific kind of crime is rather odd, do special homicide or narcotic units also come in for criticism?

I never complained that it was a unit set up to deal with a specific type of crime; what I was pissed about was that said unit is dealing with things that AREN'T crimes, in this case profanity.

Civil War Man · Post by **Civil War Man** » 2006-02-26 02:51pm

Sharp-kun wrote:"Anti-Social Behavior" covers things like vandalisim, drugs, drunken behaviour and stuff like racial abuse.

Very orwellian.

And in Nazi Germany, a woman was considered to be displaying anti-social behavior if she used birth control.

Many authorities tend to use a wide brush when they can punish citizens for what they see as anti-social behavior and get away with it.

RThurmont · Post by **RThurmont** » 2006-02-26 06:57pm

I find this to be highly disturbing. More and more, from the news I'm hearing about the UK, it sounds like basic freedoms in that country are being ignored by the authorities.

Namarie · Post by **Namarie** » 2006-02-26 07:58pm

Molyneux wrote:
Sharp-kun wrote:
Fleet Admiral JD wrote: So, a police unit devoted entirely to getting rid of "anti-social behaviour?" Sounds like Orwell to me, folks.

This is bullshit. Fuck you, Kent.
"Anti-Social Behavior" covers things like vandalisim, drugs, drunken behaviour and stuff like racial abuse.

Very orwellian.
Vandalism, drugs, and abuse are not only anti-social behavior, they are CRIMES. They were crimes long before an anti-'anti-social behaviour' unit was created.

If swearing can be considered as antisocial behavior, then that sounds too damn Orwellian for comfort to me.

The statutory definition of anti-social behaviour is conduct "that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress."

Very very broad definition found in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 2006-02-27 12:05am

This country is going to shit, whether it's the government and their fucking stupid initatives or the cesspit dwelling scum who walk the streets, I'm outta here as soon as a viable option presents itself.

Shroom Man 777 · Post by **Shroom Man 777** » 2006-02-27 12:33am

Fuck the police! Fuck-fuck-fuck the police!

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2006-02-27 02:01am

I propose a cuss-in. Let's see how many ticket booklets we can get them to go through before cramps make it impossible to issue any more.