Simplicius wrote:
Not only are the movies silent here, but there is also a conflict within the lower-level canon - the statement in the NEGVV vs. the apparently generally established history of the A-Wing. How would such a conflict best be resolved?
As neither the Databank nor Wiki have any canonicity whatsoever unless there's canon (higher canon for preference) sources contradicting it the NEGVV stands. Unfortunately the Wiki entry doesn't state what part of the information comes from where so I can't say where the contradiction arises, assuming it actually exists.
Actually the contradiction comes from at least Rebel Alliance Sourcebook. I'll have to get the exact wording from it when I get home, but according to the RASB Dodonna came up with the design of the A-wing after the attack on the DS1. They were then put into production afterwards. I'm not sure if the RASB is the only C-level canon source that goes into A-wing history. I don't believe A-wings were mentioned in the ICS. All I recall seeing are X and Y-wings.
Simplicius wrote:Not only are the movies silent here, but there is also a conflict within the lower-level canon - the statement in the NEGVV vs. the apparently generally established history of the A-Wing. How would such a conflict best be resolved?
My own take would be to toss it as another error (not the entire source, but this piece of info). The Essential Guides have been known for having their share of incorrect information such as ship length, weapons ranges, etc before. I personally don't see how to reconcile the sources on this aspect, but there could be some data I'm unaware of.
Actually the contradiction comes from at least Rebel Alliance Sourcebook. I'll have to get the exact wording from it when I get home, but according to the RASB Dodonna came up with the design of the A-wing after the attack on the DS1. They were then put into production afterwards. I'm not sure if the RASB is the only C-level canon source that goes into A-wing history. I don't believe A-wings were mentioned in the ICS. All I recall seeing are X and Y-wings.
Not in the ICS perhaps, but the Inside the Worlds:OT book does at least show an "experimental predecessor" of the A-Wing stowed in a corner of the Massassi temple complex on Yavin 4, the R-22 Spearhead. I'm not sure if that helps the matter though.
Actually the contradiction comes from at least Rebel Alliance Sourcebook. I'll have to get the exact wording from it when I get home, but according to the RASB Dodonna came up with the design of the A-wing after the attack on the DS1. They were then put into production afterwards. I'm not sure if the RASB is the only C-level canon source that goes into A-wing history. I don't believe A-wings were mentioned in the ICS. All I recall seeing are X and Y-wings.
Not in the ICS perhaps, but the Inside the Worlds:OT book does at least show an "experimental predecessor" of the A-Wing stowed in a corner of the Massassi temple complex on Yavin 4, the R-22 Spearhead. I'm not sure if that helps the matter though.
I'll be damned, I never noticed that before. Interesting catch.
As far as the quote I was looking for earlier, the RASB has this.
General Dodonna conceived of the A-wing fighter follwing the Battle of Ravin. When analyzing that titanic battle, the General concluded that the Rebel starfighter arsenal lacked one essential element: raw speed.
It then goes into other details, among which being that Dodonna contacted Walex Blissex and how they drew up the design for the A-wing.
I also checked the Guide to the Star Wars Universe (second edition) and it states similarly in regards to the A-wing being an Alliance ship. It also referenced the Star Wars Sourcebook and Dark Force Rising, but I'm not sure what those sources detail on it.
xerex wrote:Alright I'll bite. Given the capabilites that the Q show in ST, how would an Imperial force deal with them ?
'Simply ignore them' comes to mind.
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
xerex wrote:Alright I'll bite. Given the capabilites that the Q show in ST, how would an Imperial force deal with them ?
Not play their silly games, mostly. 'Here, the Borg!' 'Commence Base Delta Zero on the assimilated world.' '...You're no fun.'
An actual war would be tremendously bloody, and would basically revolve around as many ISD's trying to get through one of those entranceways into the Continuum as possible, grabbing Q weapons, and inflicting losses until they surrender. It'd have a colossal bodycount on the Imperial side, but once inside, they should win; after all, Voyager was able to force a stalemate!
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Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
So, how exactly does Q technology compare to Imperial technology?
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Surlethe wrote:So, how exactly does Q technology compare to Imperial technology?
Superior in the majority of ways. They have what amount to personal tractor beams, teleporters, and holodecks in devices on their person(Note: For those who prefer the 'innate power' theory, the end result is the same.). They may be capable of time travel; the incidents involved, however, strike me as far too likely to be illusions.
So it's basically gonna be shovelling soldiers to a way in and hoping enough get there to do the damage necessary. But this is the Galactic Empire. Dying For The Cause is what they made Stormtroopers for.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
We know the Q has enemies in Star Trek, see crystalline entity and that episode with unnamed alien of the week 69 when Q had his powers stripped. I expect the Q to have many enemies from the El Aurians to anybody else who doesn't fall for their tricks. I can't prove it, but I think it's reasonable to assume they deal with enemies trying to invade the continuum.
Likely it is difficult to get into the continuum. What the female Q was doing to let Voyager in could have been a login password or key to open a door. Assuming this is a traditional versus and the Q know that the Empire are trying to get in, they'll just seal themselves in. The continuum appears to me created or inhabited by Q for exactly that purpose... isolating themselves from outside.
Not that it matters in the long run. Borg, Whale Probe, etc etc tried to destroy humanity and Q didn't even lift a finger. Why would the Empire even pay attention to Q. For all we know the descriptions of an "omnipotent" being in Federation computers would just make a bunch of officers laugh to Heinikens. It really was only Picard and Janeway.
brianeyci wrote:We know the Q has enemies in Star Trek, see crystalline entity and that episode with unnamed alien of the week 69 when Q had his powers stripped. I expect the Q to have many enemies from the El Aurians to anybody else who doesn't fall for their tricks. I can't prove it, but I think it's reasonable to assume they deal with enemies trying to invade the continuum.
Likely it is difficult to get into the continuum. What the female Q was doing to let Voyager in could have been a login password or key to open a door. Assuming this is a traditional versus and the Q know that the Empire are trying to get in, they'll just seal themselves in. The continuum appears to me created or inhabited by Q for exactly that purpose... isolating themselves from outside.
Oh, it's definately hard to get into the Continuum uninvited. However, I've seen no evidence they can seal it up tighter, so it's a matter of playing the odds and threatening to annihilate whole worlds if Voyager's crew doesn't turn over how they did it.
Not that it matters in the long run. Borg, Whale Probe, etc etc tried to destroy humanity and Q didn't even lift a finger. Why would the Empire even pay attention to Q. For all we know the descriptions of an "omnipotent" being in Federation computers would just make a bunch of officers laugh to Heinikens. It really was only Picard and Janeway.
Brian
The purpose of this is mostly to say what it would be like if the Empire tried the one opponent who outclasses them as a foe. It's mostly gonna be a slaugther.
Manic Progressive: A liberal who violently swings from anger at politicos to despondency over them.
Out Of Context theatre: Ron Paul has repeatedly said he's not a racist. - Destructinator XIII on why Ron Paul isn't racist.
There's a lot of unknowns. How many Q are there. Why when Female Q let Voyager's crew in did she not allow orbital support, their transporters, phasers and replaced them with Springfields .
There's too little to discuss the mechanism, unless you want to assume the Female Q wasn't able to disable the continuum's defenses to allow Voyager to use their own equipment. I have no problem forgetting the mechanism and taking WYSIWYG. This would put an upper limit on the Q's power.
That is, anybody going into the continuum has their weapons and equipment stripped. They come out perceiving the battlefield as the American Civil War (since that's what the continuum looks like on a war footing). Any equipment they do manage to bring is somehow magically disabled. So they are forced to forage for native weapons, that look like Civil War weapons. Doesn't matter what they are, just that they'll be perceived and function as same.
Again, assuming the continuum knows they're being invaded, a chokepoint defense with Maxim guns or Civil War fortifications could be effective. Ultimately it will come down to who are better soldiers. If you throw enough stormtroopers in, they will make it even with the upper limit of Q's power, although it will be bloody and because the Q are defending we could assume civil war casualty ratios which were very high for the attacker against prepared fortifications.
The attacker though, will be forced to work with unfamiliar weapons (again assuming that only Q weapons can hurt a Q, putting an upper limit on Q's powers. The idea that the Voyager crew can fire a Q weapon places an upper limit on Q weapons powers, but that upper limit is very high, for example TOS era phaser weapons, or even going back in human history and pucking out any weapon).
If you object to taking upper limit of Q powers, I can't argue with that. The lower limit would be Trek transporters removing all the Voyager crew's weapons and equipment a la biofilter, but there are too many unknowns, and it doesn't make sense why Female Q didn't allow orbital support, their own transporters, phasers, unless they really didn't work.
It doesn't really matter if you take the upper limit of Q powers though. Any determined opponent with enough soldiers who can quickly learn to use the native weapons should beat the Q, assuming they can figure out how to get in. You will really need very large numbers to ensure a victory.
