Don't Read the Bible take Bible Classes?

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2006-02-28 12:34am

In another discussion BBS, I am getting a new argument. It also flies in the face of what I have been told by others.

The argument is that the passages do not say what I think they say. The second part is that I should take bible classes to learn what they say. No, I consider Bible Classes to be Brainwashing classes.

On the flip side, I have discussed with Christians who say you should only read the bible, not accept what others say, and to only use the King James version.

Anyone else run into this argument?

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2006-02-28 12:47am

There is merit in learning as much about the Bible, its translations, history, etc as you can. I know a guy who host a public access TV show in Austin called the Atheist Experience. He is a former seminary student and damn does he know the Bible. I feel sorry for the poor Christians who debate him on air over scripture's meanings, biblical inerrancy, and things of that nature. Well, I almost feel sorry.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2006-02-28 12:57am

Wicked Pilot wrote:There is merit in learning as much about the Bible, its translations, history, etc as you can. I know a guy who host a public access TV show in Austin called the Atheist Experience. He is a former seminary student and damn does he know the Bible. I feel sorry for the poor Christians who debate him on air over scripture's meanings, biblical inerrancy, and things of that nature. Well, I almost feel sorry.

Well, I have read Isiac Assimov's Guide to the Old Testiment and several sceptics books.

I just think that when someone says "Don't read the Bible, take Bible Classes" and don't give a good explanation, they are trying to hide the fact that they really don't have an answer.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2006-02-28 01:27am

There is quite a difference between Bible classes run by your local holy roller out at the neighborhood strip mall, and a legitimate well established seminary school. Ask them if they where ever taught any Greek or Hebrew in these so called classes.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2006-02-28 01:37am

Wicked Pilot wrote:There is quite a difference between Bible classes run by your local holy roller out at the neighborhood strip mall, and a legitimate well established seminary school. Ask them if they where ever taught any Greek or Hebrew in these so called classes.

I wish you could get the Anchor Bible on CD for a reasonable cost. That is what Isaac Asimov used for his guides to the bible.

Nub · Post by **Nub** » 2006-02-28 01:55am

I go to a Christian school which requires us to take a certain amount of bible classes. The first one I took went deep into the Matthew and was somewhat interesting historically, however towards the end of the class it took a turn toward evangelism which kind of killed it for me. The class I'm currently taking is boring, pointless, and very much a waste of my time (which is hard for me to say because the professor is a really good guy, just not good at teaching).

So far I've only found one bible professor on campus that I truly respect academically. The man is brilliant, and his classes would be interesting for people of all views. I look forward to taking some. He delves into the history, the Greek and Hebrew, and much more.

Unfortunately he's the only one... that said I have no idea where one could take a Bible class that isn't just as boring as a 'bible class' you would find at a church. I personally wish that I could take classes by professors who are not Christian, and would focus merely on the text as if it were any other.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2006-02-28 07:56am

It's important to remember that Christians don't just want you to READ the Bible. They want to make sure you derive the correct INTERPRETATION of the Bible. In other words, their interpretation of the Bible.

As with anything, it's all in how you sell it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-02-28 11:00am

Kitsune wrote:In another discussion BBS, I am getting a new argument. It also flies in the face of what I have been told by others.

The argument is that the passages do not say what I think they say. The second part is that I should take bible classes to learn what they say. No, I consider Bible Classes to be Brainwashing classes.

On the flip side, I have discussed with Christians who say you should only read the bible, not accept what others say, and to only use the King James version.

Anyone else run into this argument?

It's an old argument. Essentially, rather than accept that there are multiple possible interpretations of the Bible, they believe there is a "correct" interpretation, and you aren't using it, therefore you must be "educated" to do so and completely ignored until you do. Even if you believe in the Bible, this is an idiotic viewpoint.

Notice how the kind of person who uses this argument never actually explains why your interpretation is "wrong"; he simply states his preferred interpretation as fact and then mumbles that you obviously don't know the Bible very well, that you need to take Bible school or talk to his minister, that your interpretation is obviously based on atheist prejudice, etc.

JediToren · Post by **JediToren** » 2006-03-01 01:56am

This is basically how they justify using the Bible as a guide for modern morality. Whenever they finally decide to adopt a modern moral principle, such as the evil of slavery and racism, they simly "re-interpret" the Bible so that it supports their new doctrine. It's just like 1984. Suddently, the Bible always supported equal rights, and anyone who says different is not a true Christian. Those old crusaders and inquisitors were just using the Bible as an "excuse..." blah blah.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2006-03-01 02:27am

JediToren wrote:This is basically how they justify using the Bible as a guide for modern morality. Whenever they finally decide to adopt a modern moral principle, such as the evil of slavery and racism, they simly "re-interpret" the Bible so that it supports their new doctrine. It's just like 1984. Suddently, the Bible always supported equal rights, and anyone who says different is not a true Christian. Those old crusaders and inquisitors were just using the Bible as an "excuse..." blah blah.

Actually, that is comment I got. Anybody who does not live like they claim a Christian is suppose to live is not a Christian. It is an attempt to shed all the people they don't like from the Christian bandwagon.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-03-01 08:53am

^ And that lets them pretend to be a minority!

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-03-01 08:55am

Well, I don't think that's it. I think the concept is that many people are Christians publically, but don't follow Jesus's actual message. The idea is that too many people are modern Pharisees. That does not mean, however, that this should be used to produce a No-True Scotsmen Fallacy.

Agent Fisher · Post by **Agent Fisher** » 2006-03-01 11:36pm

I go to a christian College. And I hate the bible courses more than anything else. More than the stupid bullshit rules. If I wanted to take bible classes, I would have been a damn Bible Major. It pisses me off when the force us to take the classes we dont want or other schools wont even recognize.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2006-03-02 01:43pm

Agent Fisher wrote:I go to a christian College. And I hate the bible courses more than anything else. More than the stupid bullshit rules. If I wanted to take bible classes, I would have been a damn Bible Major. It pisses me off when the force us to take the classes we dont want or other schools wont even recognize.

Do you consider the teacher's interpretation of the bible passages any better than one of us could do on our own?

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-03-02 04:47pm

Kitsune wrote:
Agent Fisher wrote:I go to a christian College. And I hate the bible courses more than anything else. More than the stupid bullshit rules. If I wanted to take bible classes, I would have been a damn Bible Major. It pisses me off when the force us to take the classes we dont want or other schools wont even recognize.
Do you consider the teacher's interpretation of the bible passages any better than one of us could do on our own?

You're asking the wrong questions. It doesn't matter what HE thinks, it matters what GOD thinks. And God thinks the teacher is right- don't question God!

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-03-02 05:00pm

The problem is that people can't really agree on how you're supposed to judge whether a particular interpretation is valid or not. Normally one tries to interpret a piece of literature by attempting to determine the author's intent based on other writings from the same author, the period in which he wrote, the cultural context, influences in his life from other historical sources, etc.

But in this case, most modern theologians expressly reject the intent, cultural mindset, and prejudices of the ancient Israelites who obviously wrote the thing. In fact, the better ones try to remove these influences or marginalize them in some way, in an attempt to weed out the "true meaning" from the cultural context.

But the underlying assumption beneath this practice (that the "true meaning" comes from God and the other stuff comes from the Israelites) is just that: a totally baseless assumption. If one interprets the Bible as a document which was simply created by those ancient prejudiced ignorant Israelites, then modern theological practice doesn't really make any sense. If you remove the Israelites' prejudices, you remove the whole thing.

Kitsune · Post by **Kitsune** » 2006-03-02 06:53pm

I agree with you. When you remove modern interpretation of the Bible from it, most passages make sense (or at least more sense). Problem is that you an I both see it as an ancient book where others see it as some profound religious text.

pskouson · Post by **pskouson** » 2006-03-03 02:39am

If only there were a real prophet to tell us what the Bible means.

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2006-03-03 07:08am

But there already is a lot of profit in telling us what the Bible means...

WyrdNyrd · Post by **WyrdNyrd** » 2006-03-03 07:11am

Ya know, pskouson, that was either a brilliant bit of irony that flew right over my head, or the most pathetically naive thing I've heard in months...

Molyneux · Post by **Molyneux** » 2006-03-03 08:39am

WyrdNyrd wrote:Ya know, pskouson, that was either a brilliant bit of irony that flew right over my head, or the most pathetically naive thing I've heard in months...

Eh, I can sympathize with him. It would be nice to know that a loving God exists, and that there is a predefined set of rules for life; unfortunately, either God doesn't exist, or for some reason He apparently wants us to puzzle through this on our own (as if He did not exist), so we've got to to do the best we can either way.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-03-05 04:36pm

Indeed, too bad everything we can observe in the entire universe points toward the non-existence of any god or gods.

It'll be great to fight on the side of an altruistic divine deity, against the forces of evil. Kinda like a fantasy setting, yeah. That'd certainly give us all (me, anyway) a really nice sense of purpose. *Sniff*

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Don't Read the Bible take Bible Classes?

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