Anyone notice that General Grevious's henchmen kick ass?

[Manus Celer Dei]

Another thing we should remeber is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are among the best Jedi out there. Just because they can slaughter magnaguards in 30 seconds doesn't mean that's normal.

IIRC, four Magnaguards did a pretty good job of keeping three Jedi Masters occupied in Clone Wars.

Off the top of my head, Delta Squad takes out at least nine, actually. Possibly up to twelve, but definitely more than nine. They even meet three at once, at one point, although they have access to emplaced weapons there.

That part gave me such a headache.

[Cos Dashit]

In defense of this post, I would like to say that when Obi-Wan took down that piece of machinery on the four Magnaguards he probably did it because taking them down with his lightsabre would be too time-consuming. He needed to catch Grievous before he ran, and catch him fast. If he would have stopped to fight the Magnaguards (and if it did indeed take him 36 seconds to take down one) it would have taken at least 2.5 minutes to dispatch the four of them, probably longer because he was fighting more than one. If these droids weren't 'kick-ass', he would have just seperated their heads from their shoulders (oh... that doesn't work) and chase/fight the General.

So what I am saying is he didn't want to waste time in fighting them because he had to get to Grievous before he ran.

[Cos Dashit]

Stupid question: IIRC means what?

[Noble Ire]

Stupid question: IIRC means what?

If I Recall Correctly

IIRC, four Magnaguards did a pretty good job of keeping three Jedi Masters occupied in Clone Wars.

Keep in mind, they had to protect the chancellor, and had GG on their tail as well. When Shaaki Tii was left as the rear guard, she made a very good showing against around a dozen of them, all at once.

[Crazedwraith]

I got the impression they were actually only trying to delay her from guarding Palpatine so Greivous could finish the two redshirt jedi and capture the chancellor. Hence their quick disengagement at the end of that fight.

[Count Dooku]

Everyone has made some excellent points, but IMO, without the force as their ally, no driod could ever equal the skill of a Jedi. Although, Grevious' henchmen were pretty talented, and if I recall, they were personally trained by him and Dooku.

[Lukedanieljames]

Another thing we should remeber is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are among the best Jedi out there. Just because they can slaughter magnaguards in 30 seconds doesn't mean that's normal.

IIRC, four Magnaguards did a pretty good job of keeping three Jedi Masters occupied in Clone Wars.

Off the top of my head, Delta Squad takes out at least nine, actually. Possibly up to twelve, but definitely more than nine. They even meet three at once, at one point, although they have access to emplaced weapons there.

That part gave me such a headache.

Thats intersting, because Grievous brought a few magnaguards with him to capture palpy, and the guards took down IIRC about 40 storm troopers

[Cykeisme]

I got the impression they were actually only trying to delay her from guarding Palpatine so Greivous could finish the two redshirt jedi and capture the chancellor. Hence their quick disengagement at the end of that fight.

That's a bit of a red herring, isn't it? They certainly would have killed her if they could.


As an aside, that sort of fight is supposed to be Shaak Ti's specialty. Her sensory abilities (some sort of echolocation) and natural affinity for cramped crowds mean that she can exploit close quarter chaos like that very well, as the cartoon very well demonstrates.
Her Wizards of the Coast miniature gets Crowd Fighting.. +2 to Attack rolls for each adjacent figure

[Lukedanieljames]

shielded droidekas I admit are great at taking care of Jedi, but they aren't good for chasing them, flushing them out etc. They can't get into tight places and they can't get into an airvent shaft or something. Another thing to consider is that the Magnaguards won't be shooting at the jedi, which means their own blaster bolts can't be used against them, or in the case of droidekas, against other unshielded droids, the droidekas might kill more of their own guys because of the jedi redirect than they actually kill of the enemy!

[Lukedanieljames]

As an aside, that sort of fight is supposed to be Shaak Ti's specialty. Her sensory abilities (some sort of echolocation) and natural affinity for cramped crowds mean that she can exploit close quarter chaos like that very well, as the cartoon very well demonstrates.
Her Wizards of the Coast miniature gets Crowd Fighting.. +2 to Attack rolls for each adjacent figure

I truely believe that this is overruled by greater canon in ROTS, if it takes anakin and obiwan 32-36 seconds EACH to take down a single magna droid each, and now this jedi is taking on over a dozen? Its clearly over ruled by cannon, its like an X-wing taking a hit with a LTL in a book, but getting blown into a million pieces in all the movies. Ruther more, knowing this, saying that it ISN'T being over ruled and thats its legit compared to bad writing would be part of the no limits falacy, where you feel that she could because she's a jedi and because its writen, instead of looking at the on screen evidence of how difficult it is to kill these things, their talent + durability

[Lukedanieljames]

Everyone has made some excellent points, but IMO, without the force as their ally, no driod could ever equal the skill of a Jedi. Although, Grevious' henchmen were pretty talented, and if I recall, they were personally trained by him and Dooku.

I agree with you 100%, jedi's will always win 1on1 vs any droid.

And to add, actually the magna droids are programmed for a great deal of combat roles, Grievous just felt that he wanted to train them his own way, no evidence this is stronger or weaker, as the magnadroids in the EU are being killed easily (see above about how i think about this) and THEY were trained by him too

[Cos Dashit]

no driod could ever equal the skill of a Jedi.

Naturally. I doubt that anybody was even implying this. We were simply saying that those particular droids were very skilled in melee combat if they could keep a Jedi busy for half a minute.

[Civil War Man]

I truely believe that this is overruled by greater canon in ROTS, if it takes anakin and obiwan 32-36 seconds EACH to take down a single magna droid each, and now this jedi is taking on over a dozen? Its clearly over ruled by cannon, its like an X-wing taking a hit with a LTL in a book, but getting blown into a million pieces in all the movies. Ruther more, knowing this, saying that it ISN'T being over ruled and thats its legit compared to bad writing would be part of the no limits falacy, where you feel that she could because she's a jedi and because its writen, instead of looking at the on screen evidence of how difficult it is to kill these things, their talent + durability

Two different Jedi in two different situations taking different amounts of time to destroy a Magnaguard is NOT a contradiction in canon.

Something I would like to point out: notice how the Magnaguards seem to fight better against Jedi when they have something that's keeping them from putting their all into it? Like, say, Shaak Ti, who needed to guard Palpatine in CW? Or, maybe, Obi-Wan and Anakin, whose primary mission objective, I shall reiterate, was to recover Palpatine alive and if possible unharmed.

I imagine that the average Jedi would be conscious of the fact that if they turned into the whirling dervishes of death that allows them to dispatch larger groups they've been shown to be capable of dispatching, it could result in, shall we say, unacceptable collateral damage.

[Meest]

Two different Jedi in two different situations taking different amounts of time to destroy a Magnaguard is NOT a contradiction in canon.

Also the machinery tactic in Obi's fight wasn't available in the bridge fight. He did the most efficient depatchment for the situation. About the duration of the fights, it looked to be barely over 10 swings to dispatch the guards. Obi backs off to get abit of room and easily beheads one, then when it's still alive the droid parries maybe 5 shots before it's guard breaks down and is finished. Anakin the same deal, slowly backs away towards Palps to a bigger area all the while looking like there's no threat to him, seemed to me Anakin and Obi needed a few secs to feel them out then went in for easy kills.

One quick note about the Obi kill, he actually pins a Magna guard's staff down against a console with his sabre before doing the head swipe blow, another feat of strength from Kenobi.

[Lord Revan]

just a stupid question but where do Magnaguards defeat 40 Clonetroopers?

[Cykeisme]

Another thing to consider is that the Magnaguards won't be shooting at the jedi, which means their own blaster bolts can't be used against them, or in the case of droidekas, against other unshielded droids, the droidekas might kill more of their own guys because of the jedi redirect than they actually kill of the enemy!

Good point, that's probably one of the primary reasons they built a droid type that specializes in melee combat.. to prevent Jedi from using their firepower against them, as with all the other droids. They don't fare better than Destroyer Droids though.

I truely believe that this is overruled by greater canon in ROTS, if it takes anakin and obiwan 32-36 seconds EACH to take down a single magna droid each, and now this jedi is taking on over a dozen? Its clearly over ruled by cannon, its like an X-wing taking a hit with a LTL in a book, but getting blown into a million pieces in all the movies. Ruther more, knowing this, saying that it ISN'T being over ruled and thats its legit compared to bad writing would be part of the no limits falacy, where you feel that she could because she's a jedi and because its writen, instead of looking at the on screen evidence of how difficult it is to kill these things, their talent + durability

Two different Jedi in two different situations taking different amounts of time to destroy a Magnaguard is NOT a contradiction in canon.

Did you even see the toon, Lukedanieljames? Not only is it not a contradiction, it doesn't even look like one. Shaak Ti was on the defensive for the majority of the fight, being heavily outnumbered combined with the short reach of her lightsaber compared to the polearm electrostaffs. Eventually she appropriated an electrostaff and took advantage of the cramped and crowded area to frustrate their attempts to attack her, and disabled a few of the MagnaGuards.
When Grievous reached the bunker, he ordered the MagnaGuards to withdraw, and Shaak Ti wasn't exactly in great shape then.

I imagine that the average Jedi would be conscious of the fact that if they turned into the whirling dervishes of death that allows them to dispatch larger groups they've been shown to be capable of dispatching, it could result in, shall we say, unacceptable collateral damage.

Well, for one thing, the Dark Side always beckons to those who give in to their anger.

[Anguirus]

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the IG-100 with the slashed eye. In the novel, Obi-Wan identifies it as a lightsabre mark and guesses that the droid killed a Jedi.

He could be wrong, of course. It could, for example, have been inflicted by Shaak Ti. But at the very least, it shows us that it can take a glancing blow from a lightsabre and be fine.

[Jim Raynor]

I don't know if that means that it could "take" a lightsaber blow. After all, the little scar around Anakin's eye in ROTS was also caused by a lightsaber. The droid was probably just barely grazed. However, the fact that they can fight Jedi at all is impressive.

[Tiriol]

Keep in mind, they had to protect the chancellor, and had GG on their tail as well. When Shaaki Tii was left as the rear guard, she made a very good showing against around a dozen of them, all at once.

Labyrinth of Evil differed grealty from Clone Wars in the description of Palpatine's capture and even what Obi-Wan and Anakin were doing - if I remember correctly, the MagnaGuards appeared to be more dangerous in it and were fewer, also. Which one is the true description of the events, LoE or CW?

And in any case, Anakin Skywalker noted in Revenge of the Sith novel that the second MagnaGuard who had come to capture him, Obi-Wan and Palpatine had a missing "eye", as if cut or grazed with a lightsabre. He thought that a Jedi had done so, but that Jedi had not survived the encounter with the said MagnaGuard. Of course, it is impossible to say what level of power that Jedi had and it was clearly much lower than Anakin or Obi-Wan - possibly a Padawan or a new Knight, nothing else. A Master should have no difficulty in taking on MagnaGuards (as evidenced by Master Kenobi).

[Ghost Rider]

Keep in mind, they had to protect the chancellor, and had GG on their tail as well. When Shaaki Tii was left as the rear guard, she made a very good showing against around a dozen of them, all at once.

Labyrinth of Evil differed grealty from Clone Wars in the description of Palpatine's capture and even what Obi-Wan and Anakin were doing - if I remember correctly, the MagnaGuards appeared to be more dangerous in it and were fewer, also. Which one is the true description of the events, LoE or CW?

LoE. Clone Wars is considered a collection of tales from a boy who lived durning the era and his recollection of the events.

[NeoGoomba]

LoE. Clone Wars is considered a collection of tales from a boy who lived durning the era and his recollection of the events.

Is it that boy who watched Windu take on the Droid Army? Or is he off-camera all the time?

[Ghost Rider]

LoE. Clone Wars is considered a collection of tales from a boy who lived durning the era and his recollection of the events.

Is it that boy who watched Windu take on the Droid Army? Or is he off-camera all the time?

Same boy. Literally that particular battle he was present, the rest he heard from others. This was given as an explaination as to why Clone Wars has such exagerrations in combat, abilities and even army/naval assests.

Think of someone who saw the Battle of Normandy but had really no fucking clue was 90% of the things were.

[Anguirus]

After all, the little scar around Anakin's eye in ROTS was also caused by a lightsaber.

And he's pretty impressive, isn't he?

[000]

Another point: upgraded labor droids make equally proficient lightsaber duelists. The MagnaGuards don't seem all that special considering that.

[nightmare]

So, where exactly does it say the Magnarguards cost as much as a starship, or can we just classify that as meaningless hyperbole, like the Executor class nearly bankrupting the Empire?

I was thinking the same thing. You could get several platoons of Guris for the same price as a MagnaGuard if they cost several hundred millions. Also, a line warship would be in the billions, unless we are talking <ISD.