Space Empires IV Game... of Doom! (Adamant Mod)

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 11:12am

The data files are a nightmare to read through and I just don't have the time.

Tux is right, it only takes 5 minutes per turn. Maximum 30 minutes for no-RP. But if you're the kind of guy who can't put down something for two or three days and come back to it, SE:IV isn't for you. For me at least, I tend to think about it in between, making strategies, but that could be distracting.

Here are docs for Adamant Mod, should be more user friendly.

<edit>If you've played SE:IV stock before, going straight to another mod isn't any problem at all, especially well-made mods like ST Mod or Adamant. But if you want perfection... and you'll be playing everybody with experience under their belt... there's certain tricks you don't get unless you've played multiplayer before but that's the same with everything... if you look at the first few pages of the original Space Empires thread with the most views, especially when it talks about overall strategy, that should give you a good primer, and the MIN/MAX guide posted earlier...</edit>

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-07 02:16pm

--It says that there is room for one more player in the Adamant game. If you are willing to wait for me to make an empire and join I'd like to play.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 02:29pm

Don't mind the player limit Neph can raise it anytime she wants. I can't speak for everybody but I don't give a shit if I have to wait a few more days or a week

.

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-07 02:44pm

--Okay, I guess someone will have to give me the official okay. I haven't played pbw before so I assume I just create an empire w/ 5k base points. Are there any rules I should know about (such as no colonization tech trades)?
-BTW, just how important is the bonus movement in this mod? We must be playing simultaneous moves so that muddies the analysis up.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 02:50pm

Bonus movement costs 1500 for each bonus, and you can get two. But 1500 is a lot, enough to raise your offense/defense up by another 10%. I'm using both bonus moves and a 150% construction rate hoping to spam out as many colonizers on the early turns as possible. Also adding 1 bonus move to let's say a 2 propulsion engine to 3 propulsion is more than just adding 1 bonus move point, because of quasi-Newtonian propulsion (larger hulls need more engines to move, on larger hulls you need like 50 engines). So it's pretty important, but depends on whether you want to sacrifice your other stats.

Tech trades will be impossible if Neph puts on "no technology trades" when she makes the game, and the only way will be gifting someone a colonizer to analyze, that probably won't work because of the way they've made the colony modules.

Brian

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-07 02:54pm

brianeyci wrote:Bonus movement costs 1500 for each bonus, and you can get two. But 1500 is a lot, enough to raise your offense/defense up by another 10%. I'm using both bonus moves and a 150% construction rate hoping to spam out as many colonizers on the early turns as possible. Also adding 1 bonus move to let's say a 2 propulsion engine to 3 propulsion is more than just adding 1 bonus move point, because of quasi-Newtonian propulsion (larger hulls need more engines to move, on larger hulls you need like 50 engines). So it's pretty important, but depends on whether you want to sacrifice your other stats.

Tech trades will be impossible if Neph puts on "no technology trades" when she makes the game, and the only way will be gifting someone a colonizer to analyze, that probably won't work because of the way they've made the colony modules.

Brian

Colony modules are organized by the home colony type. So you can only trade with other races of your same type, so it's not a big deal. By that point when one player has XYZ colonies, you probably should be able to get it too with no trouble.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 03:03pm

Since this is a competitive game with no neutrals, I don't expect many trade and research alliances at all. Anybody who makes one runs the risk of ships bypassing your satellite and mine defenses. I expect early wars, often and quick, but actual consolidation of territory's gonna be a bitch.

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-07 03:22pm

--Well I'm pretty out of my depth since I've never played a game that started with such a large amount of resources and I don't have a handle on the tech tree (any hints on what to research and why). I'm especially curious about missiles. Previously, missiles were useless and fighters were only useful because they didn't have any maintainance and could overwhelm a fleet. I also don't understand how mines work in this game and what bonuses the nonstandard tech. branches get (I'd hate to lose an entire fleet because I was missing a component I didn't know I needed).
-As for alliances, multiplayer games almost always depend on who can keep themselves from getting gangbanged. Unless you are really skilled 2:1 usually results in death.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-07 03:29pm

Nova Andromeda wrote:--Well I'm pretty out of my depth since I've never played a game that started with such a large amount of resources and I don't have a handle on the tech tree (any hints on what to research and why). I'm especially curious about missiles. Previously, missiles were useless and fighters were only useful because they didn't have any maintainance and could overwhelm a fleet. I also don't understand how mines work in this game and what bonuses the nonstandard tech. branches get (I'd hate to lose an entire fleet because I was missing a component I didn't know I needed).
-As for alliances, multiplayer games almost always depend on who can keep themselves from getting gangbanged. Unless you are really skilled 2:1 usually results in death.

In this mod, mines need EM Screening devices to hide them from normal view, which also limits the warhead. Mine warheads do half the damage of normal, and armor is more powerful, so mines are more likely to just heavilly damage several ships instead of destroying them all.

Missiles are useful on this mod, since they're smaller and never miss, with good damage. You need PD guns to take them out, or Aegis grids. Shields are very light, but constantly regenerate, so it's best to have a mix of shields and armor.

Armor also no longer stops all hits that attack the ship. It only has a chance of being activated. Heavy armor gives less points per KT used, but is more likely to activate. Light armor gives more points per KT, but is less likely to activate.

This mod makes it brutal to attack homeworlds, so a quick rush won't defeat you, but may prevent you from becoming a galactic power.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 03:33pm

Everybody here should be really skilled. Tux is no slouch and nearly beat us, Trogdor had a huge empire last game, Dalton only lost because he got it up the ass with a bad homeworld start or he'd have a huge empire because he was left alone almost the entire game, Guppyshark fought a brutal war with the Borg, lost, and bounced back, etc etc.

But Tux is right, nobody really has a lot of experience in this mod so you're not out of your depth.

It's mostly the same as SE:IV. The most important decisions are theoretical areas in the beginning.

Construction - Fighters, Troops, Mines
Physics - Shields Sensors Radioactive Extraction, Minesweeping, EM Screening
Military Theory - Combat Support, Point-Defense Weapons, Torpedo Weapons
Ship Construction
Propulsion
Weapons Research

Mines are not cloaked by default. Missiles are pretty powerful, look up to my stats for a hardened missile 100 kT damage resistance, and the most advanced PD gun is 70.

In the game to compete for the Beta Spot for SE:V, I was playing in an alliance of 6 v 1 (I was in the six) and the 1 player was owning. I ended up losing or I'd have a copy of SE:V right now.

edit: As for weapons, in stock everybody goes for Phased Polaron Beams, nice damage even if they don't skip shields. I looked into the Adamant equivalent and you need level 3 Physics, level 4 infrared Laser and level 4 x-ray laser, and level 2 energy-stream weapons. Energy stream weapons need level 2 physics and level 5 x-ray and infrareds. For x-ray and infrareds you need level 1 physics and level 5 laser weapons. So if you want to go that route, laser weapons up to 5, infrared and x-ray up to 5, then physics up to 3.

The problem is, phase physics only needs physics 2. So they'll have phased shields before you have phased beams most likely.

Other choice is missiles.

Other SE:IV strategies apply. If you see an opponent with religious ethos, he might be going for the Talisman and hit him hard before he gets it. Crystal, make sure to get armor + shield skipping weapons. Etc.

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-07 04:44pm

--Okay, I applied to join.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-03-07 05:37pm

We're still using the same surrender rules as before, right?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-07 06:43pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:We're still using the same surrender rules as before, right?

We are. As it is, there's no other choice it appears.

I accepted you to the game, Nova.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 06:57pm

So, there's no customization? I'm only asking because there's been two or three different opinions on the thread and there might be some confusion.

Also the PBW Advanced Research trait's selected by default so everybody should be sure to turn it off.

I think it should be a game announcement to clarify exactly what the rules are, just in case some people don't check the thread... I don't blame them, there's a lot of posts. Customization or no customization I don't care as long as everybody customizes or everybody doesn't. I prefer none though, or things like the Romulan's construction handicap and the Ferengi trade bonus goes out the window...

<edit>Hahahaha I'm a dumbass, this is the Adamant mod thread not the ST Mod thread... oh well.</edit>

<edit>As for the surrender rules, I think you should be allowed to "fight to the death" if you want. That is, you should be able to sit in your homeworlds... the surrender rules were more because we didn't want anybody knocked out early. But with invincible homeworlds... I don't think that's necessary at all.</edit>

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-07 07:41pm

--I don't know what the PBW research stuff is. I guess I'll have to reread the PBW site (first time for me).
-Does anyone know how to use the chaff missiles?

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-03-07 07:50pm

Don't worry about the PBW research. It's something in the Trek mod. Brian mixed up the threads. As for the chaff missiles, I'll toy with the mod a bit and see.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 07:51pm

Don't worry about the PBW stuff, that's me being stupid, it's for the other modification not this one.

Chaff missiles... I would suspect, alternate them and use the right kind of mount that lets you fire them before enemy ships are in range so the chaff missiles get in front first... the enemy PD should shoot them down instead of the missiles with warheads in them... I assume you mean the decoy missiles...

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-07 07:56pm

--Nope I mean chaff missiles. I can't get them to work right (they are susposed to target seekers and do truly massive damage).

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-07 08:15pm

Maybe use this mount. The chaff missile can only target seekers as in other missiles. So you have to wait until they fire their seekers before you fire. You should use the longest range mount, in case they fire their missiles from long range I think.

Brian

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-08 11:24am

Kojiro,

I have a suggestion. You can upload your empire with a shipset that you can use temporarily. Then when you're done, you can post it in this thread, and everybody can extract it over the temp shipset and see your new graphics.

Nobody's going to be seeing your ships until turn ten or so anyway

.

Brian

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-08 09:04pm

Actually, I've just finished it. All I need is 15 mins with the game to make my empire file.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-08 09:40pm

This may take a little more than a few mins...I promise it'll be done tonight when Guppy gets home and shows my inept butt what to do.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-08 09:42pm

No problem. A few hours is nothing. A good read is the MIN/MAX guide I linked earlier.

Brian

Nova Andromeda · Post by **Nova Andromeda** » 2006-03-08 10:07pm

--Where can we find all the game details including unofficial rules?

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-03-08 11:28pm

Kojiro wrote:This may take a little more than a few mins...I promise it'll be done tonight when Guppy gets home and shows my inept butt what to do.

Don't forget to allocate plenty of points for Kneeling to Zod.