"The Bad Science" behind gay activists

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"The Bad Science" behind gay activists

Post by Justforfun000 »

How can anyone possibly write an article with this much claptrap in it and actually title it with a straight face "The bad science behind gay activists? :shock:

Where do people get this kind of gall?? It truly floors me.


http://www.thefactis.org/default.aspx?c ... 5&authid=7

The Bad Science Behind Gay Activist Arguments


I suppose we shouldn't be surprised to discover that activist judges who make up law to forward a political agenda rely of activist professionals who make up science. Still it comes as a shock to see the extent to which gay activists have taken over American's mental health professional organizations and are using their position to present falsified science.

Two articles — one by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, "The Trojan Couch: How the Mental Health Guilds Allow Medical Diagnostics, Scientific Research and Jurisprudence to be Subverted in Lockstep with the Political Aims of their Gay Sub-Components" and the other by Dean Byrd, "When Activism Masquerades as Science" — document how the mental health professional organizations' duty to science has been subverted.

The gay activists have engaged in a campaign of myth making going back decades. Through careful maneuvering they have been able to set themselves up in positions of power within professional organizations like the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association. Once in power, they manipulated these organizations into putting out statements which forward myths created by gay activist to forward their agenda and into submitting deceptive friend of the court briefs in key cases – such as Lawrence v. Texas and Romer v. Evans.

These briefs and statements pretend to be science. They contain footnotes and references, designed to give the impression that they refer to scientific articles which supports the claim made in the sentence which precedes the reference. Most people don't have the time or resources to check out each reference. They assume the references are legitimate.

Those who have checked out the sources of the gay activists' claims have, however, discover that there is nothing there. No solid evidence. Instead the articles referenced are opinion pieces supporting the gay political agenda, articles by gay activists simply restating their myths, invalid research using small samples, and studies whose conclusions ignore their authors' actual findings. Many of the studies violate every rule for good research and are no better than anecdotal evidence gathered from friends. All this has been extensively documented by a number of researchers.

In a few instances the activist authors cite solid research, but then distort the findings. Satinover points out that a key myth promoted by gay activists — namely that people are born that way and can't change — is the basis for the claim made in friend of the court briefs that homosexuals constitute a legal "class" and are therefore entitled to legal protection.

Not only is there no solid scientific proof of the claim that same-sex attraction is genetically determined, firmly established in adolescence, and essentially unchangeable, one of the studies referenced in the activists' brief proves the exact opposite. The brief for the Lawrence case cites a statistically valid, well respected study by Edward Laumann and associates, "The Social Organization of Sexuality" as evidence for their claim that homosexuals are a "class," even though one of Laumann's major conclusions is that homosexuality is not a stable trait. According to the study, the percentage of persons experiencing same-sex attraction, self identifying as gay or lesbian, and/or engaging in homosexual behavior peaks in adolescence and declines with age. Most of this change occurs spontaneously. Laumann's conclusions have been confirmed by subsequent research.

It is frightening that judges are making law based on fake science and appalling that professional organizations are distorting science. One has to wonder about all those investigative journalists who parrot the gay activists' fake science and never bother to check the references. Discovering the distortions is not difficult. Any layman could look up the studies, read them, and discover that they don't say what the activists' claim.

But what is worse is that the myth that people are born gay or lesbian and can't change is being sold by the educational establishment to students. Adolescents experiencing same-sex attractions are encouraged to "come out." Once out they are easily seduced into sexual relationships. The majority will discover later to their embarrassment that this was only a phase. However, for a significant percentage of the young men so deceived this realization will come only after they have been infected by a nasty sexually transmitted disease.

The gay activists know they are distorting the evidence. A few members of their own community have question this strategy and expressed concerned about the effect of basing their political claims on falsified evidence. However, given the success of this strategy there is every reason to believe that the gay activists will continue to use it.

Those who rely on the mainstream media will continue to be deceived and vulnerable adolescents seduced into dangerous choices.

Dale O'Leary is a writer, pro-family activist and educator living in Rhode Island. Her e-mail address is daleoleary@thefactis.org.
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Post by Frank Hipper »

Apparently, us sinful queers choose different brain structures.

Or, or, it's the demons infesting us that cause those changes! Yeah!

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Post by CaptJodan »

Those who rely on the mainstream media will continue to be deceived and vulnerable adolescents seduced into dangerous choices.
Choices? Are they STILL on this? Sometimes I wonder how people can be so far removed from logic to believe the things they believe. Just how wacko do you have to be, exactly? Did these people have to make a conscious choice to be straight?
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Post by Frank Hipper »

CaptJodan wrote:
Those who rely on the mainstream media will continue to be deceived and vulnerable adolescents seduced into dangerous choices.
Choices? Are they STILL on this? Sometimes I wonder how people can be so far removed from logic to believe the things they believe. Just how wacko do you have to be, exactly? Did these people have to make a conscious choice to be straight?
They'd have to abandon all pretense of morality to encourage bigotry againsty people who aren't willfully gay, ya see.

Not that their "morality" has a fucking leg to stand on in the first place.
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Post by Morilore »

These briefs and statements pretend to be science. They contain footnotes and references, designed to give the impression that they refer to scientific articles which supports the claim made in the sentence which precedes the reference. Most people don't have the time or resources to check out each reference. They assume the references are legitimate.

Those who have checked out the sources of the gay activists' claims have, however, discover that there is nothing there. No solid evidence. Instead the articles referenced are opinion pieces supporting the gay political agenda, articles by gay activists simply restating their myths, invalid research using small samples, and studies whose conclusions ignore their authors' actual findings. Many of the studies violate every rule for good research and are no better than anecdotal evidence gathered from friends. All this has been extensively documented by a number of researchers.
Two articles — one by Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, "The Trojan Couch: How the Mental Health Guilds Allow Medical Diagnostics, Scientific Research and Jurisprudence to be Subverted in Lockstep with the Political Aims of their Gay Sub-Components" and the other by Dean Byrd, "When Activism Masquerades as Science" — document how the mental health professional organizations' duty to science has been subverted.
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Post by haas mark »

The Idiots wrote:But what is worse is that the myth that people are born gay or lesbian and can't change is being sold by the educational establishment to students. Adolescents experiencing same-sex attractions are encouraged to "come out." Once out they are easily seduced into sexual relationships.
...And this is different from heterosexuals how, exactly?

Regardless, they've once again reverted to "It's a choice because WE SAY SO."
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Post by Darth Raptor »

Personally, whenver someone tells me it's a choice I grant it to them. No sense drudging up all that pesky biology and psychology nonsense. Still doesn't make it wrong.
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Post by wolveraptor »

It's a "choice" the same way the alchoholism of someone who grew up in an abusive, drug-filled domestic environment is a choice. The fact that having gay parents leads one to a more bisexual lifestyle seems to support this.
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Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

Oh gee, someone from a website that is jointly sponsored by the Catholic Family and Human Rights Institute and the Culture of Life Foundation makes bogus claims without backing them up. :roll: There's a real shocker there. These type of morons tend to prefer to argue that sexual orientation is not genetic as their valid excuse to condemn homosexuality as an "immoral choice" even though the lack of a "gay gene" does not necessarily mean that it is not genetically influenced nor does it mean it is a "choice".

These guys love to quote Dr. Satinover's books. Though I've never personally had the chance to read them, their arguments almost always boils down to "Homosexuality isn't genetic, so it must be a choice/immoral/changeable/etc. etc.".
wolveraptor wrote:The fact that having gay parents leads one to a more bisexual lifestyle seems to support this.
I wasn't aware of that "fact". How did you conclude that?
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Post by Stark »

What I don't understand about this 'choice' malarky is my personal experience. I inherited pretty much zero sexual mores from anyone, and I have an extremely flexible sex life. And you know what? I've been attracted to maybe five guys in my whole life, compared to hundreds of women. I'm not religous and I'm not macho: I don't have a problem with homosexuality on any level. I'm just not attracted to guys.

Have I not made the 'choice' yet? Am I 'sort of' posessed by demons in some time-share arrangement with the angels? Or am I simply open minded but internally straight? Bah.
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Post by mr friendly guy »

Whether its a choice or inherent is irrelevant to the broader question of whether homosexuals deserve equal rights ( of course the fact that we see homosexual behaviour in animals where there is no gay propaganda within their species should answer the question of choice vs inherent).

Simply put human rights are inherent for humans and sexual orientation is irrelevant. Now I await the homophobe strawman about how we don't allow kleptomaniacs or pyromaniacs to do what they want to do instead of having laws against them. Of course they ignore the fact that we don't let pyromaniacs burn down things because it harms others, and that rationale doesn't apply to homosexuality. (They will next strawman a safe vs unsafe sex issue into a homosexual vs hetereosexual sex issue. They are so predictable sometimes).
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Post by wolveraptor »

I didn't conclude it. It was some study from a fairly reasonable source. I'll dig it up at soonest convenience.
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Post by Plekhanov »

I don’t know about you guys but when I was going through puberty I distinctly remember sitting down and reading the various pamphlets given me by the homo & heterosexual recruitment groups and deciding that whilst homosexuality seemed very appealing what with the homophobic discrimination, being disowned by half of my extended family and so forth I just couldn’t stand the music generally played in gay clubs so I decided that I would mainly find women sexually attractive.
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Post by Keevan_Colton »

Plekhanov wrote:I don’t know about you guys but when I was going through puberty I distinctly remember sitting down and reading the various pamphlets given me by the homo & heterosexual recruitment groups and deciding that whilst homosexuality seemed very appealing what with the homophobic discrimination, being disowned by half of my extended family and so forth I just couldn’t stand the music generally played in gay clubs so I decided that I would mainly find women sexually attractive.
They had a better marketing campaign, the infographics in their pamphlets and other literature just had far higher hedonic values...

God damn I feel unclean just typing that "sentence".
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Post by Stark »

Plekhanov wrote:I don’t know about you guys but when I was going through puberty I distinctly remember sitting down and reading the various pamphlets given me by the homo & heterosexual recruitment groups and deciding that whilst homosexuality seemed very appealing what with the homophobic discrimination, being disowned by half of my extended family and so forth I just couldn’t stand the music generally played in gay clubs so I decided that I would mainly find women sexually attractive.
Dammit! I was plainly permanently affected by their appealing tales of discrimination and intolerance. If only I'd had your marketing savvy! :)
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Post by Darth Wong »

Why is anyone surprised by this? These people have been making totally unqualified bullshit statements about evolution science, so why shouldn't they make similarly unqualified bullshit statements about any other kind of science?
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Post by Justforfun000 »

Why is anyone surprised by this? These people have been making totally unqualified bullshit statements about evolution science, so why shouldn't they make similarly unqualified bullshit statements about any other kind of science?
I'm not really surprised, but I guess I'm still flabbergasted that they have the nerve to claim THEIR viewpoint is the real science and all of the mainstream organizations are wrong. I guess the arrogance still shocks me. :shock:
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Post by Metatwaddle »

Seeing the Christian right accuse the secular left of using bad science is sort of like seeing extremist Muslims accuse European countries of religious intolerance. It's funny, but in the sort of way that makes you want to hide in a hole and come out decades later to see if the crazy people have killed each other off yet.
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Post by Lord Zentei »

Some of these guys seem to genuinely think that "science" means "an academic discipline that underscores a set of values", and that it is simply a matter of choice (no pun intended) which principles you can pick when creating your "scientific" system, as though it were philosophy or something.

Thus "science" becomes a fancy term for a more "respectable" spin doctoring and propaganda.
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Post by Molyneux »

I dunno...back when I was in high school, my stance was always that I was supportive of gay rights and didn't have anything against it, but I just didn't find guys attractive. It wasn't 'til senior year or so that I really started to take stock of myself and really pay attention to my actual reactions, and realized that I'd been incorrect in my earlier assessment.

You can suppress an innate attraction - it's not generally healthy, but it can be done.
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Post by CaptJodan »

mr friendly guy wrote:Whether its a choice or inherent is irrelevant to the broader question of whether homosexuals deserve equal rights ( of course the fact that we see homosexual behaviour in animals where there is no gay propaganda within their species should answer the question of choice vs inherent).

Simply put human rights are inherent for humans and sexual orientation is irrelevant. Now I await the homophobe strawman about how we don't allow kleptomaniacs or pyromaniacs to do what they want to do instead of having laws against them. Of course they ignore the fact that we don't let pyromaniacs burn down things because it harms others, and that rationale doesn't apply to homosexuality. (They will next strawman a safe vs unsafe sex issue into a homosexual vs hetereosexual sex issue. They are so predictable sometimes).
But to them, the world revolves around God. If it was proven without a shadow of a doubt (and even then we know that they wouldn't believe it) that homosexuality was strongly connected to biology rather than enviornment in some way (current estimates I heard about in psych classes were 50/25 with the other 25 being statistical error or unknown factors. Fifty percent being probably biological factors) they would have to look to their own God to figure out why, and they don't want to.

It's so much easier to believe that gays choose the lifestyle they lead. They choose to live in sin. After all, the Bible makes references to putting gays to death on numerous occasions, and clearly God never contradicts himself. :roll:

Thus it extends from the Bible that gays are moralless scum sucking creatures. Like many other times before, deep down they label gays sub-human, or at the very least criminals who shouldn't have the right to breathe, let alone get married or adopt a child.
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Post by Baron Scarpia »

Through careful maneuvering they have been able to set themselves up in positions of power within professional organizations like the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association. Once in power, they manipulated these organizations into putting out statements which forward myths created by gay activist to forward their agenda and into submitting deceptive friend of the court briefs in key cases – such as Lawrence v. Texas and Romer v. Evans.
I would like to see any evidence supporting this claim. I suspect this asshat's evidence is simply the fact that these orgs came to realize homosexuality wasn't a disease or pathology after all.
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Post by Justforfun000 »

On another Blog someone mentioned this regarding the APA. I wasn't aware:
the APA didn't remove homosexuality from the DSM-IV because of "political reasons". The facist right would love for you to believe that. I'm sure some overly eager far-left gay rights activists would probably too.
The APA removed it because of a study done by Evelyn Hooker, which revealed that the self-efficay of homosexuals was no different from that of heterosexuals. When Alfred Kinsey's surveys revealed that homosexuality was more prevalent than previously thought, psychologists began to re-consider whether this was a "deviation" or mere "variation". They chose the latter after considering both studies.
The only difference found in Hooker's ground-breaking study was a homosexual orientation. Since, self-efficacy is the basis for deciding whether or not something is considered a mental illness, homosexuality was removed from the list. The only noticiable difference that they were able to draw from the study was that gay men tended to have slightly higher IQ levels than heterosexual men.
The men surveyed were psychologically healthy homosexuals. Prior to that, study results were skewed because all of the surveyed homosexuals were suffering from some form of mental illness. It is easy to see that had a study been done on mentally ill heterosexuals, some one could yield results that suggested that heterosexuality was associated with mental illness.
I don't take people who talk about psychology seriously if they don't take the APA's opinions seriously. Usually it means that they have some form of self-serving agenda and had the APA instead taken a negative view of homosexuality, they'd be real quick to point to them as an authorative source.
The APA invented the concept of homosexuality as being a mental illness. Why can't that same organization rightfully correct its own conclusions?
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Re: "The Bad Science" behind gay activists

Post by Adrian Laguna »

Bigoted Bitch wrote:Satinover points out that a key myth promoted by gay activists — namely that people are born that way and can't change — is the basis for the claim made in friend of the court briefs that homosexuals constitute a legal "class" and are therefore entitled to legal protection.
IT DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER IF IT'S A CHOICE OR NOT! They are entitled to legal protection because they're human beings. I get legal protection against discrimination due to my religious beliefs. My beliefs are not something I was born with, they aren't determined through genetics. I chose my beliefs, and at any point in time, I can choose to change them. See? I can, of my own free will, continue to believe in God, or decide that I don't need to do so and list myself as and atheist. You know what? I still get legal protection either way. So why the hell wouldn't homosexuals not be entitled to legal protection, even if sexual orientation is a fucking choice?
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Post by brianeyci »

Time for some scholarly smackdown :twisted:.

I looked up "The Social Organization of Sexuality" by Edward Laumann. I couldn't find the other two scholars in my database--pseudo-scholars maybe, or maybe my searching skills aren't up to it, if somebody with more research expertise can confirm that the first two, Dr. Jeffrey Satinover and Dean Byrd appear in peer reviewed journals, I would like to know.

I found the following book review in two parts. I believe it is fair use to post the book review, since it is only two pages and less than ten percent of the American Journal of Sociology. If it is not, a moderator can kindly take the download down. Getting it from the horse's mouth would of course be ideal, and if someone can rebuttal me with quotations from the actual book then fine.
Dale O'Leary wrote:The brief for the Lawrence case cites a statistically valid, well respected study by Edward Laumann and associates, "The Social Organization of Sexuality" as evidence for their claim that homosexuals are a "class," even though one of Laumann's major conclusions is that homosexuality is not a stable trait.
Whether homosexuality is stable or not shouldn't affect whether homosexuality is a class. It does not follow that just because homosexuality is not stable, that homosexuality is not a class. The book review supports that homosexuality is a class, but also supports that heterosexuality is a class.
Richard Udry wrote:This book's title reaffirms its resolutely social constructionist theoretical stance. Human sexual behavior and its patterns are construed as social inventions. When a pattern of behavior is discovered, the explanation is sociological. For example, when the data show that women report having orgasm infrequently, compared to men, Laumann et al. explain that "orgasm among women is a form of experience that is poorly taught and has limited sources of social support (p. 113). Lucky for the human race that at least male orgasm is well taught and has solid sources of social support.
He does not mention that this is exclusive to homosexuality. In other words, the book's conclusion seems to be that Human sexual behavior, not homosexuality, are social inventions. In other words, this study argues against the point that heterosexuality is a default human condition that people return to.

Also the point that "orgasm among women is a form of experience that is poorly taught and has limited sources of social support" affirms that if homosexuality had more support, it would be more stable. Therefore lack of stability is not inherent to homosexuality any more than heterosexuality, but more a result of social support structures.
Dale O'Leary wrote:According to the study, the percentage of persons experiencing same-sex attraction, self identifying as gay or lesbian, and/or engaging in homosexual behavior peaks in adolescence and declines with age. Most of this change occurs spontaneously. Laumann's conclusions have been confirmed by subsequent research.
Whether the percentage of self-identification of gay or lesbian doesn't have anything to do with whether being heterosexual is the biological default, but rather that support systems are in place for heterosexuals more than homosexuals. That is the major point of this book, that sociological constructs rather than biological define sexuality.

This looks like O'Leary cherry picking one position--gay activists saying that homosexuality is biological--and not realizing that his own position, that heterosexuality is biological, is just as untenable from his own sources. The entire anti-gay argument can be summed up in the O'Leary's following words,
The majority will discover later to their embarrassment that this was only a phase.
In other words O'Leary believes that heterosexuality is the default condition. However, his point is unsupported by his own sources.

The book review says this,
Richard Udry wrote:The authors are admirably cautious in avoiding causal interpretation where their research design does not justify it.
So I seriously doubt there is any quote in the entire book that supports that "homosexuality is a phase."

Now give me my A :twisted:.

Brian
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