Liquid Water Erupting on Enceladus

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-03-09 03:47pm

High-resolution imagery from the Cassini probe shows liquid water erupting from geysers on the Saturn moon Enceladus, raising the possibility for primitive life:

CNN article

Article on Space.com

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-09 03:52pm

So if there is anything there, it'll be like Terran archea. Does anyone know if Enceladus has enough sulfur and whatever else is needed for chemosynthesis?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-03-09 03:55pm

I'd imagine there'd be enough native CHNOPS (carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulphur) there to help life move on, if the water and whatever else has started off abiogenesis. It's getting those conditions where life starts forming that matter more now water's found.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-09 04:01pm

If the moon is geologically active, maybe a volcanic eruption could provide the necessary energy to synthesize amino acids. I remember reading a hypothesis that abiogenesis on Earth took place near hydrothermal vents. Lightning or constant meteor bombardment may not be necessary.

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2006-03-09 04:03pm

If this is true it'll be the first actual observation of extra-terrestrial liquid water. Definitely an exciting development. I suspect that this moon would have to take precedence over Europa as a target for a lander.

wautd · Post by **wautd** » 2006-03-09 04:05pm

Man, that Cassini mission doesn't know when to quit sending more suprises now does it?

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-03-09 04:22pm

kheegan wrote:If this is true it'll be the first actual observation of extra-terrestrial liquid water. Definitely an exciting development. I suspect that this moon would have to take precedence over Europa as a target for a lander.

In an ideal world, NASA wouldn't be bean counting now because of the stupid man on the moon plan or Bush and the "War on Terror" [sic] to fight terrorism. We could have the deep-sea explorer go to Europa AND have a probe sent to Enceladus. I'm betting life could have thrived on both.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-03-09 04:27pm

I wonder what the natives'll think when we eventually show up and they find out we like bathing in molten lava

kheegster · Post by **kheegster** » 2006-03-09 04:29pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
kheegan wrote:If this is true it'll be the first actual observation of extra-terrestrial liquid water. Definitely an exciting development. I suspect that this moon would have to take precedence over Europa as a target for a lander.
In an ideal world, NASA wouldn't be bean counting now because of the stupid man on the moon plan or Bush and the "War on Terror" [sic] to fight terrorism. We could have the deep-sea explorer go to Europa AND have a probe sent to Enceladus. I'm betting life could have thrived on both.

Well, IIRC the Europa probe hasn't been canned...yet, although it is apparently under 'indefinite suspension'. Space science in Europe is thriving fairly well though, with most space science proposals receiving grant money they requested for.

Link

Ministers support Europe in space

7 December 2005

A robotic mission to Mars and an Earth monitoring system are among the new activities to be funded in Europe's space programme over the next three to five years. Ministers from the 17 member states of the European Space Agency (ESA) and Canada meeting in Berlin on December 5 and 6 approved a €8.25bn programme, some 98% of the funding requested by the agency. Such meetings are held every two to three years to set Europe's space priorities.

Ministers agreed that ESA's science programme will receive €2.1bn over the next five years, which is what the agency had asked for. This means that funding for science will rise by 2.5% per year, keeping it in line with inflation. Previously the science budget had remained flat and there was therefore "an erosion of buying power" in ESA speak. ESA spokesman Franco Bonacina says that the Bepi-Colombo mission to Mercury, due to take off in 2012 but which some had feared may be axed, should now be safe.

Most other parts of the ESA programme received all or nearly all the money that had been requested by the agency. But a new project being organized jointly with the European Union called Global Monitoring for Environment and Security (GMES), receives some €250m, €50m more than was asked for. This project will integrate all available Earth monitoring data, whether obtained in space or on the ground, and launch a new set of Earth-observation satellites. This will allow scientists to improve their understanding of the climate and to monitor natural disasters such as earthquakes and floods, and also allow the EU and its member states to monitor fishing quotas and carry out other surveillance tasks.

Another project to get more than was asked for was the Exomars mission. Due to take off in 2011, this will involve sending a rover to search for signs of life on Mars. It will receive some €550m over the next six years. This will be complemented by a further €150m to start the development of future robotic and human exploration missions to the Moon and Mars. However, some €50m requested to begin developing a replacement to the Soyuz manned spacecraft, known as Clipper, with Russia over the next two years was not forthcoming. Ministers felt that the Clipper programme was "not yet mature enough", according to Bonacina.

There was also no explicit money for a replacement to the CryoSat satellite, which was supposed to study the effect of climate change on the Earth's polar ice caps but which was lost shortly after take off last October. But, says Bonacina, with the Earth observation programme receiving nearly full funding, there is a good chance that a successor to Cryosat will be built.

In addition to thrashing out ESA's budget, ministers at the Berlin meeting also decided that all missions developed by ESA and its member states must use European launchers. Bonacina says that it may be more expensive to use the Ariane, Soyez or forthcoming Vega launchers than those from overseas but that doing so ensures European taxpayers' money is well spent.

Unfortunately the ESA effort is generally on a smaller scale, and is unlikely to involve major efforts like probes unless it's a collaboration with other agencies.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-03-09 04:33pm

It's annoying, ESA has the backing, but lacks the resources of NASA, while NASA has the resources, but no backing. Mind you, space exploration is too expensive for any one agency nowadays, and NASA is focused on getting something up to replace the STS fleet.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-09 04:35pm

It's times like this I wish the Soviet Union were still around, and that they were hellbent on making Mars red in every sense of the word...

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-03-09 04:40pm

You may get your wish if Putin continues with his ressurection of the USSR in every way, shape and form.

Azazal · Post by **Azazal** » 2006-03-09 04:42pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
kheegan wrote:If this is true it'll be the first actual observation of extra-terrestrial liquid water. Definitely an exciting development. I suspect that this moon would have to take precedence over Europa as a target for a lander.
In an ideal world, NASA wouldn't be bean counting now because of the stupid man on the moon plan or Bush and the "War on Terror" [sic] to fight terrorism. We could have the deep-sea explorer go to Europa AND have a probe sent to Enceladus. I'm betting life could have thrived on both.

Blame the fundies that control Bush. They need to keep any chance of us finding life out there minimal. How in the hell could they refute alien life as part evolution while clamining it for ID/creationism, there is no mention of it in the bible.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-03-09 07:13pm

That's possibly one of the most ridiculous things I've heard all semester...

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2006-03-09 07:35pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote: In an ideal world, NASA wouldn't be bean counting now because of the stupid man on the moon plan or Bush and the "War on Terror" [sic] to fight terrorism. We could have the deep-sea explorer go to Europa AND have a probe sent to Enceladus. I'm betting life could have thrived on both.

The more life we discover the more we need to spend on defense to be prepared to kill it. Doing nothing at all saves money across the board.

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2006-03-09 08:01pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:The more life we discover the more we need to spend on defense to be prepared to kill it. Doing nothing at all saves money across the board.

Though at the same time, I imagine there are alot of shadowy suits in the Military Industrial Complex who'd make fat stacks of cash developing powerful explosive space bombs to fight the Aecheobacterial Menace From Beyond the Moon (um, From Another Moon). They could sit in overly dark rooms around harshly lite mahogany tables, sipping brandy from snifters held in cruel, claw like hands, and sinisterly comment to each other that "the Operation must be allowed to go ahead".

You wouldn't deny that Military Industrial Complex an alien menace, would you?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-09 08:20pm

Clearly, we need to develop airborne lasers and anti-missile systems not to defeat North Korea.. but what the Spalthi call THE ULTIMATE EVIL, a nefarious force that lies just beyond the range of our most sensative instruments. This fact alone proves their dastardly intentions.

I for one, welcome our microscoping Saturnian Overlords...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2006-03-09 08:26pm

They'll have to get past the EVIL JOVIAN LIZARDS first.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-03-09 08:36pm

F-303s. That's all that's needed.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2006-03-09 08:49pm

CaptJodan wrote:F-303s. That's all that's needed.

A Tsy-1 Starcobra has the slight advantage over an F-303 of being feasible

Winston Blake · Post by **Winston Blake** » 2006-03-10 12:59am

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:I wonder what the natives'll think when we eventually show up and they find out we like bathing in molten lava

Shaking hands will be a bitch. Although i like the fact that we could kill them with our superheated blood, a la Aliens.

Post by **Broomstick** » 2006-03-10 06:50am

Darth Raptor wrote:If the moon is geologically active, maybe a volcanic eruption could provide the necessary energy to synthesize amino acids. I remember reading a hypothesis that abiogenesis on Earth took place near hydrothermal vents. Lightning or constant meteor bombardment may not be necessary.

Tidal forces acting on Saturn's moons may also be sufficient to heat the body and provide energy to the moon's innards, as well as providing a means for geologic shifting. I believe that theory has been mentioned before to explain all the wrinkles and rumples in both Saturnine and Jovian moons.

Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:I wonder what the natives'll think when we eventually show up and they find out we like bathing in molten lava

They'll think we're hot under the collar!

Azazal wrote:How in the hell could they refute alien life as part evolution while clamining it for ID/creationism, there is no mention of it in the bible.

There's no mention of North or South America in the Bible, either, but they seem to have come to terms with it without diluting their stupid whacko fundie bullshit.

edited to fix the goddamned coding - I'd give up posting too early to spell correctly, except that's often the only time I have to visit here

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2006-03-10 12:28pm

Broomstick wrote:
Azazal wrote:How in the hell could they refute alien life as part evolution while clamining it for ID/creationism, there is no mention of it in the bible.
There's no mention of North or South America in the Bible, either, but they seem to have come to terms with it without diluting their stupid whacko fundie bullshit.

Thanks, Broomstick. That just made my day.

That being said, GO SATURN! I wrote my first planetology paper EVER about Titan, and its good to see there's interesting stuff around there.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-03-10 08:38pm

The alien life thing is more significant in that it would appear to confirm abiogenesis. The Western continents could've been created when god made teh land.