Wiki: Hitler wanted to destroy Catholic Church

[Shroom Man 777]

Additionally, some members of the Catholic clergy were killed by the Nazis, many of these were either of Jewish background, as in the case of Edith Stein, or they were killed as part of the Nazis campaign against the Polish intelligensia. In the countries in which Roman Catholic bishops had openly protested and attacked Nazi policies, like in the Netherlands and Poland where bishops and priests had protested to the deportations of Jews, the clergy was either threatened with deportation themselves and kept in custody (case of German bishop Clemens von Galen), or directly deportated to concentration camps, as in the cases of the Dutch Carmelite priest Titus Brandsma and Polish Fr. Maximillian Kolbe. Some dissenting Protestant clergy, such as those who founded the anti-Nazi Confessing Church, were also persecuted. Plans were designed by the Nazi government to totally exterminate the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church and the anti-nazi Protestant denominations. These plans were however deemed inopportune during the course of the war, and therefore postponed to after the assumed 'Final Victory' of the Axis forces. Hitler clearly spoke out in favour of the destruction of the Catholic Church when he said: "Ich will die Katholische Kirche zertreten wie eine Kröte!" ('I want to crush the Catholic Church like a toad') Goebbels for his part predicted a 'final solution' for Christianity ("a Jewish doctrine") in the future National Socialist new order of European society, but stressed this would cause too much problems if brought about during the war.

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Ummm...is there any truth to these claims? I thought Hitler made a deal with the Catholic Church. Wasn't Hitler a Catholic? And didn't he use Christianity to gain support from the German public?

[Lord Zentei]

Indeed yes on both counts. Perhaps he was planning on recreating it in his own image?

[Ariphaos]

Ummm...is there any truth to these claims? I thought Hitler made a deal with the Catholic Church. Wasn't Hitler a Catholic? And didn't he use Christianity to gain support from the German public?

Hilter seemed to be the type that considered religion just another tool for population control, really. I doubt he had any attachment to catholics.

[Mange]

During a conference on the evening of July 26th 1943 (after the Badoglio government had removed Mussolini from office iirc), Hitler said in response to what should be done with the Vatican that the Vatican should be invaded and an apology given afterward. In 1944, he ordered the kidnapping of the Pope.

[PeZook]

It may as well be true - though there is no source given for the "toad" quote. It isn't really surprising that Nazis would threaten, kill and arrest Catholic clergy who opposed their policies - they did to everyone else who tried that, after all. It is important to note, though, that they would have done the same regardless of Hitler's personal beliefs, just as any other totalitarian regime ever.

[CarsonPalmer]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he did. But there is no proof for it.

[K. A. Pital]

Well, where are the sources? Documents, etc.?

Anyway, not surprising - Hitler was advocating his brand of Christianity, not the Pope's.

[Admiral Valdemar]

He may have had a deal with the Vatican, but until Barbarossa, he also had a deal with those Bolsheviks, so his word is worth very little. This is not beyond reason.

[K. A. Pital]

until Barbarossa, he also had a deal with those Bolsheviks

Whom he consistently promised to wipe out many times earlier, including Mein Kampf, which clearly states that "any union with Russia may only be a temporary measure" for what has been done.

his word is worth very little

Mein Kampf is worth a lot more than his political speeches, due to the fact that whilst writing it in prison he was a nobody. It was a book of his beliefs.

This is not beyond reason

It's rather annoying Wikipedia never gives links to sources for particular quotes. I would like to check on them.

[K. A. Pital]

Wow. Wikipedia needs a good history asskicking:

While Karl Dönitz was found guilty of waging unrestricted submarine warfare, allied officers were not tried in spite of their acknowledgment that they had used the same practice.

the tu quoque defense was removed

Is the guy who wrote it totally unfamiliar with the fact the UMT charge against Doenitz was actually dropped according to the "tu quoque" principle? Nice, eh?

In the actual circumstances of this case, the Tribunal is not prepared to hold Doenitz guilty for his conduct of submarine warfare against British armed merchant ships.

Tu quoque defense:

In view of all of the facts proved, and in particular of an order of the British Admiralty announced on 8 May 1940, according to which all vessels should be sunk at night in the Skagerrak, and the answer to interrogatories by Admiral Nimitz that unrestricted submarine warfare was carried on in the Pacific Ocean by the United States from the first day that nation entered the war, the sentence of Doenitz is not assessed on the ground of his breaches of the international law of submarine warfare.

Wikipedia is a sham in history.

[CarsonPalmer]

Wikipedia is a great setarting point, in that it provides things to look for, but never use it as a main source.

[Lord Zentei]

Wikipedia is a great setarting point, in that it provides things to look for, but never use it as a main source.

Especially where it is covering issues where critique of powerful institutions and popular myths would be called for.