A non 'floating' alien?

[Crossroads Inc.]

One of the made up races in my Novela is supposed to be heavier then water. IE if they fell into water they would sink naturally.

I tried to find a natural occurance of such a creature, mainly to see how they would function in real life. But I cannot for the life of me find any living thing that would not actually float if dropped in water. Even the largest Land Animals actually do quite well in water.

It got me wondering, woulf naturally selection even allow such a thing? Would the fact that if you accidently slipping into a river you would drown such a huge set back that evoloution would slate such an organism for extinction before they could evolve sentients?

[Lord Zentei]

Apes have very little body fat, and they do not float.

[Adrian Laguna]

That's correct. Humans are the weakest species in the genus Homo. Chimpanzees, for example, are smaller than humans but much stronger. The drawback is that their increased density, due to having proportionaly more muscle tissue, causes them to sink like bricks.

Some anthropologists believe that the difference suggests that humans evolved on a lowland area that was often flooded.

[The Original Nex]

That's correct. Humans are the weakest species in the genus Homo. Chimpanzees, for example, are smaller than humans but much stronger.

Um, this might be a little nitpicky but Chimps aren't in the genus Homo. They are genus Pan. Homo Sapiens are the only living species in the genus Homo

[Crossroads Inc.]

Serious, Gorrias and Chimps cannot Swim due to their muscles, is this true?

It would go a long way to helping me flesh out my race, as my story has them evolving on a realtivly heavy G world.

[The Original Nex]

According to The Jane Goodall Institute:

Do chimpanzees swim?

In general chimpanzees do not like to swim. Chimpanzees have stocky bodies that prevent them from being strong swimmers. Many chimpanzees, however, enjoy splashing around and playing in water.

They can swim, they just aren't good at it. However, they cannot float as they have no (or very little) body fat, so they have to work much harder than humans do to stay afloat (ref: [url-http://www.blackpineanimalpark.com/Animals/chimps.htm]Black Pine Animal Park.com[/url]).

[The Original Nex]

AGH!! Messed up the tags. If a mod could fix that at some point I would be much obliged.

[wolveraptor]

Serious, Gorrias and Chimps cannot Swim due to their muscles, is this true?

It would go a long way to helping me flesh out my race, as my story has them evolving on a realtivly heavy G world.

If you don't want them to float, just make sure they have a small surface area, little fat (already expected on a high-G world) and are made up of dense materials.

[Adrian Laguna]

Um, this might be a little nitpicky but Chimps aren't in the genus Homo. They are genus Pan. Homo Sapiens are the only living species in the genus Homo

*slaps self*
Yeah, I knew that. What I meant was that Humans are the weakest members of the family Hominidae. This family includes: humanity, chimpanzees, gorillas, orangutans, and our ancestors. Plus various relatives that left no genetic legacy (Neanderthals, for example).

BTW - I recall hearing or reading (meaning: this is probably not reliable) that some scientists think that the genus Pan should be eliminated and the chimpanzees moved to Homo.

[wolveraptor]

Your mom thinks that the genus Pan should be eliminated. With AIDS.

Honestly, I think the idea is stupid, as we'd have to replace the genus names of all the intermediary species between chimps and man, such as the australopithecines. Men and chimp's common ancestor would have to be Homo as well. I doubt there are enough similarities between us and them to warrant such a taxonomic permutation.

[Adrian Laguna]

Honestly, I think the idea is stupid, as we'd have to replace the genus names of all the intermediary species between chimps and man, such as the australopithecines. Men and chimp's common ancestor would have to be Homo as well. I doubt there are enough similarities between us and them to warrant such a taxonomic permutation.

The fact that it is a vague memory suggests that the idea hasn't really caught-on. In any case, if the change is made you can bet your ass that there will be a dammed good reason behind it.

[Ariphaos]

Serious, Gorrias and Chimps cannot Swim due to their muscles, is this true?

It would go a long way to helping me flesh out my race, as my story has them evolving on a realtivly heavy G world.

Bonobo chimps have somewhat lower bone and muscle density than other apes (though much more so than humans) and will play around and wade a lot in water, but they still can't float and they would have no hope of any serious long distance swimming in comparison to humans.

Gorillas would have an even harder time of the task. I'm not sure if it's even possible for them.

[TheBlackCat]

Another issue is with lung volume. I will float if my lungs are full of air, but I sink like a stone if they are empty.

[skotos]

I tried to find a natural occurance of such a creature, mainly to see how they would function in real life. But I cannot for the life of me find any living thing that would not actually float if dropped in water. Even the largest Land Animals actually do quite well in water.

I believe that some species of turtles and tortoises sink, even aquatic ones (a few link I found on sea turtles state that the young float, which leads me to believe that adults must sink naturally), and this site claims that most tortosies do in fact sink.

It got me wondering, woulf naturally selection even allow such a thing? Would the fact that if you accidently slipping into a river you would drown such a huge set back that evoloution would slate such an organism for extinction before they could evolve sentients?

I don't see any reason why species couldn't evolve without the ability to float or swim at all for that matter. After all, there are a number of habitats where there simply won't be sufficient liquid water for an animal to drown except under unusual circumstances. And of course aquatic animals can easily survive without floating, even if they breathe air, as long as they can swim to the surface often enough to draw a breath.

[Surlethe]

And of course aquatic animals can easily survive without floating, even if they breathe air, as long as they can swim to the surface often enough to draw a breath.

Aquatic animals don't even have to swim or breathe air to survive: I refer you to sponges, for instance, or hydras.

[AK_Jedi]

I tried to find a natural occurance of such a creature, mainly to see how they would function in real life. But I cannot for the life of me find any living thing that would not actually float if dropped in water. Even the largest Land Animals actually do quite well in water.

ummm....crabs? lobsters?

There are many species that spend their entire lives crawling over the ocean bottom. Take a look at an aquarium sometime.

[The Original Nex]

Indeed. Sharks especially have no swim bladder as boned fish do and if they cease their foward motion they will sink.

[Crossroads Inc.]

Well... To be fiar my original comment appyled to LAND animals. Though I guess I should have specfied that in the OP.

That said, it seems a heavier then water land animal could evolve without stretching science at all.

[AK_Jedi]

How much of a land animal do you want it to be? Many species of crabs will routinely come up onto the beach. And I'm sure there are several amphibious species that sink.