Yep, Executor's 19000 meters...

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-03-10 07:50pm

That was the power generator.

I've seen RotJ quite a few times, and I dfon't recall this appearing in dialogue.

It's an enormous dish, after all. Since when do shield generators look like dishes? A dish is fine for *projecting* something, but why would it be generating power for the local shield?

If the hypothetical planetary shield was up, then why would there be ecological damage?

Dust in the atmosphere, radiation, and a lot of kinetic force transferred from the shield down to the generator. You'd still need the Rebel fleet cleaning up, but it wouldn't be an unavoidable disaster if the forest moon has the shield.

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-03-10 08:09pm

Anguirus wrote:
That was the power generator.
I've seen RotJ quite a few times, and I dfon't recall this appearing in dialogue.

It's an enormous dish, after all. Since when do shield generators look like dishes? A dish is fine for *projecting* something, but why would it be generating power for the local shield?

I'm sorry, but my shield generator looks like a dish. Maybe you have a Japanese manufactured one? I would be much obliged if you could kindly provide pics so that we may compare them.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-03-10 08:14pm

It's hilarious when someone says 'its impossible to reconcile with the EU' when a) it ISN'T, and SWTC did so years ago and b) the EU loses in such cases anyway.

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-03-10 09:47pm

Anguirus wrote:I've seen RotJ quite a few times, and I dfon't recall this appearing in dialogue.

It's an enormous dish, after all. Since when do shield generators look like dishes? A dish is fine for *projecting* something, but why would it be generating power for the local shield?

I was just pointing out that the structure Veers destroyes on Hoth isn't actually the shield projector or generator. It's the power generator for the entire base. Just a pet peeve-- certain sources (Force Commander, Galactic Battlegrounds) make that structure the shield system for some reason.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-03-11 08:48pm

Yeah, I was pretty relieved to see it being a power generator for structures other than just shields in Empire at War.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-03-11 11:24pm

000 wrote:
Anguirus wrote:I've seen RotJ quite a few times, and I dfon't recall this appearing in dialogue.

It's an enormous dish, after all. Since when do shield generators look like dishes? A dish is fine for *projecting* something, but why would it be generating power for the local shield?
I was just pointing out that the structure Veers destroyes on Hoth isn't actually the shield projector or generator. It's the power generator for the entire base. Just a pet peeve-- certain sources (Force Commander, Galactic Battlegrounds) make that structure the shield system for some reason.

Perhaps for simplicity. Its easier to hace a large High Value structure for such a thing in a stratagy game thant to have a smaller less expensive structure for the same thing that is easier to kill. The Shields are most likely the biggest drain on power in the base as as such it fair to say where you have huge power generator you have a shield system.

Game mechanics aside, the dish is the projector for the Death Star Shield.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-03-12 12:18am

Look, I like SWTC too, but it's "reconciliation" with the EU regarding Endor's fate amounts to absurd hoop-jumping. (On a related note, last I saw Saxton didn't even accept that C-3PO had been memory-wiped.)

We see a ton of shielded ships in Star Wars and they don't use dishes to generate their shields. Droidekas don't have dishes. Gungan shield generators don't have dishes. Hoth didn't use a dish to "project" its shield outward...the power generator seemed to maintain a shield bubble without further special equipment.

The logical use of a dish is to PROJECT something. This holds true in Star Wars as surely as guns are still long barrels.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-03-12 12:31am

Anguirus wrote:Look, I like SWTC too, but it's "reconciliation" with the EU regarding Endor's fate amounts to absurd hoop-jumping.

What exactly is absurd with it in your opinion? He took the facts, made all logically possible conclusions, and arrived at the best possible theory. Sometimes this takes a bit more "hoop-jumping" than other times, when the subject isn't well covered in canon.

Anguirus wrote:(On a related note, last I saw Saxton didn't even accept that C-3PO had been memory-wiped.)

Written before ROTS and not simply updated yet, nevermind that what Dr. Saxton wrote is that memory wipe wasn't necessary; a reconciliation was fully possible without it. George obviously put in that line in ROTS for the benefit of the general audience which doesn't have a clue about the radio play.[/i]

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-03-12 12:49am

What exactly is absurd with it in your opinion? He took the facts, made all logically possible conclusions, and arrived at the best possible theory. Sometimes this takes a bit more "hoop-jumping" than other times, when the subject isn't well covered in canon.

While Saxton's attempts in that field are admirable, unfortunately there are sources that he does not tackle, and quite frankly, are completely unreconcilable with an Endor Holocaust circumstance. Wookieepedia outlines the point nicely.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-03-12 01:10am

Noble Ire wrote:
What exactly is absurd with it in your opinion? He took the facts, made all logically possible conclusions, and arrived at the best possible theory. Sometimes this takes a bit more "hoop-jumping" than other times, when the subject isn't well covered in canon.
While Saxton's attempts in that field are admirable, unfortunately there are sources that he does not tackle, and quite frankly, are completely unreconcilable with an Endor Holocaust circumstance. Wookieepedia outlines the point nicely.

What the hell are you talking about? All of those are reconcilable with the holocaust theory, hell marooned contradicts itself (and I've edited the page to show that). If I drop an 8 billion ton starship from orbit, its gonna do a lot more damage, releasing 115 GT.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-12 01:50am

Anguirus wrote:Hoth didn't use a dish to "project" its shield outward...the power generator seemed to maintain a shield bubble without further special equipment.

Huh? How do you think the shield came into existence? There were shield generators scattered all around the base (OT:ITW).

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-03-12 01:58am

What the hell are you talking about? All of those are reconcilable with the holocaust theory, hell marooned contradicts itself (and I've edited the page to show that). If I drop an 8 billion ton starship from orbit, its gonna do a lot more damage, releasing 115 GT.

Well, that is a point. Nevertheless, that comic does show Endor's ecosystem to be largely intact, albiet with the occasional starship dropping from the sky. My own, admittedly weak, explanation for the ISD's landing was that it was controlled during the fall, and thus didn't actually impact (having seen the issue, that's what it actually looked like, as the destroyer is oriented correctly, and was remarkable undamaged).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-03-12 02:57am

Anguirus wrote:Look, I like SWTC too, but it's "reconciliation" with the EU regarding Endor's fate amounts to absurd hoop-jumping. (On a related note, last I saw Saxton didn't even accept that C-3PO had been memory-wiped.)

That's hilarious. The fate of Endor is absolutely unavoidable: any EU sources that disagree with ROTJ are defeated by the canon heirachy. Shit, sorry.

Anguirus wrote:We see a ton of shielded ships in Star Wars and they don't use dishes to generate their shields. Droidekas don't have dishes. Gungan shield generators don't have dishes. Hoth didn't use a dish to "project" its shield outward...the power generator seemed to maintain a shield bubble without further special equipment.

Yeah, cause maintaining a largely skintight shield on a warships' superconducting hull is comparable to projecting a shield into orbit and wrapping it around a sphere. Or... not.

Anguirus wrote:The logical use of a dish is to PROJECT something. This holds true in Star Wars as surely as guns are still long barrels.

I'm glad you understand shield mechanics well enough to make such bold claims! Can I peruse your work on this subject?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-03-12 05:08am

Didn't the generator on Endor both protect the DS II and the entire moon itself? Would make sense that they only blasted the projector-part and left the generator running for when all that debris come down.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-03-12 04:25pm

When was the Executor's size changed on the official site?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-03-12 04:35pm

Some time last year, I think. Unceremoniously.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-03-13 01:18am

Would make sense that they only blasted the projector-part and left the generator running for when all that debris come down.

That's what I've been saying.

Yeah, cause maintaining a largely skintight shield on a warships' superconducting hull is comparable to projecting a shield into orbit and wrapping it around a sphere. Or... not.

EXACTLY.

That's hilarious. The fate of Endor is absolutely unavoidable: any EU sources that disagree with ROTJ are defeated by the canon heirachy. Shit, sorry.

...unless there's an operating planetary shield on Endor. With that one assumption, every problem between the astrophysics and the EU's "lush" post RotJ Endor is solved.

I'm glad you understand shield mechanics well enough to make such bold claims! Can I peruse your work on this subject?

You just have.

The only use of a dish in the canon with relation to shield systems that I am aware of is to project a shield so that it envelops a body in orbit. Shield generators themselves don't look like dishes; they have no reason to. And hence, Solo's destruction of the shield projector could have left an intact shield generator, thus saving Endor from the other-wise unavoidable holocaust.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-03-13 01:49am

The more I look at it, the more the "secondary" projector makes sense. The dish covers only the DS II, while another part similar to the one on Hoth covers the moon itself. There, cased solved.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2006-03-13 02:00am

Its not strictly JUSt the shield. We know that Endor had a planetary repulsor capable of supportting the DS2's own mass. Considering that the surface of the planet was not immediately flash-fried by radiation of any sort, we can presume most if not all of the destructive energy was absorbed by the DS2's own bulk and transfered to the planet in the form of KE impacts of the superheated debris.

That would avert most of the immediate disastrous consequences from the energy (momentum woudl still be a problem, of course, so there would be still some devastation) and help to limit the amount of actual polluting involved. The planet would still require fairly extensive ecological recovery though (and the Ewoks probably would still have to be evacuated.)

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-03-13 02:16pm

Hmm, I wonder, though.. if Endor had a functional planetary shield (or at least a theatre shield covering the area under the Death Star), it would have stopped the debris from hitting the surface. On the other hand, where did all that debris go? There's a gargantuan amount of it. Would it be suspended above the surface of the planet, sitting on the shield? If so, would it fall later, if the shield were switched off?

SVPD · Post by **SVPD** » 2006-03-13 02:53pm

Cykeisme wrote:Hmm, I wonder, though.. if Endor had a functional planetary shield (or at least a theatre shield covering the area under the Death Star), it would have stopped the debris from hitting the surface. On the other hand, where did all that debris go? There's a gargantuan amount of it. Would it be suspended above the surface of the planet, sitting on the shield? If so, would it fall later, if the shield were switched off?

It would seem to me that there MUST have been some sort of shield over Endor itself, since Han's strike team needed it deactivated in order to land.

As to whether it was the same shield as was protecting DSII... Hazarding a guess I'd say "no" since the "dish" seems to imply that shield was projected upwards, and the lack of the "instant flash fry effect"

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-03-13 04:52pm

On the other hand, where did all that debris go? There's a gargantuan amount of it. Would it be suspended above the surface of the planet, sitting on the shield? If so, would it fall later, if the shield were switched off?

I addressed that. The Rebel fleet spent weeks or months on clean-up detail, according to EU. The big ships were probably tractoring particulate matter off of the shield surface and into interplanetary space.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-13 05:08pm

SVPD wrote: As to whether it was the same shield as was protecting DSII... Hazarding a guess I'd say "no" since the "dish" seems to imply that shield was projected upwards, and the lack of the "instant flash fry effect"

The holo shown during the Rebel briefing prior to the attack quite clearly shows that the DSII shield DOESN'T protect Endor. As we KNOW it's shielded it has to be a seperate one (be it theater or planetary).

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2006-03-13 05:28pm

Batman wrote:
SVPD wrote: As to whether it was the same shield as was protecting DSII... Hazarding a guess I'd say "no" since the "dish" seems to imply that shield was projected upwards, and the lack of the "instant flash fry effect"
The holo shown during the Rebel briefing prior to the attack quite clearly shows that the DSII shield DOESN'T protect Endor. As we KNOW it's shielded it has to be a seperate one (be it theater or planetary).

However, we know the briefing to be based on bad intel and fleet scands during the battle detect the shield in the novel.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-13 05:33pm

Ender wrote:However, we know the briefing to be based on bad intel and fleet scands during the battle detect the shield in the novel.

Could you be bothered to elaborate? I'm not saying there's NO shield protecting Endor, just that there's a seperate one from the DS shield.
Unless the novelisation states they're the same?