Could the Borg beat a Correllian Corvette.

[Isolder74]

The Borg has shown to use ramming tactics against stronger enemies so I don't see why this would be any different. However, once they ram the ship, it might get destroyed, so thats no good for assimilation.

Could they ram a Corvette, don't those things have a slight advantage in acceleration?

and manueverability, I'd wager.

Yes those boxs never manueaver. They just fly in Straight lines and just sit there and take it

[namdoolb]

Okay, let's analogise.

Take a cardboard box, 3ft by 3ft by 3ft. Place this cardboard box on a turntable rotating at 5-6 rpm.

Now, your friend will place an aerosol can inside this cardboard box, it will be randomly positioned inside the box, and you won't know where it is.

From 50m distance you are going to take pot shots at this box with your 7.62 caliber rifle. How many shots do you think it will take before you hit the aerosol can and blow up the box?

4 as it spins the can will be sent to the corners and I would simplyneed to shoot each corner.

Lol, at 6-10 rpm?
(that means one rotation in about 8 seconds)
If you really believe that will be enough to throw it out to the corner then I am afraid you seriously overestimate the effect of centripedal force in this case.

I will give you credit for an inventive sidestep though.

Tell me this... Your brain has a lot of empty space (indeed, it's about 50%fat IIRC), and is massively redundant. How much do you think that is gong to help you if I put a bullet through your brain?

Oh yeah... you don't deserve to be poked, since your first comment was monumentally stupid.

Well, a borg cube, unlike the human brain, can still function with the loss of ~70% of it's mass IIRC. The mere comparison between a borg cube and the human brain is flawed on a fundamental level, and I'm dissapointed that you took such a sloppy line just to squeeze off another insult. The debate backs up the insults, not the other way round.

Well, we see TL bolts exploding around the Falcon in TESB. If a TL detonates inside the cube that pretty much punches a hole (pardon the pun) in your theory.

Well, that's a funny thing. IIRC it's LTL bolts that are exploding around the falcon, most likely to compensate for the fact that the falcon isn't the easiest of targets. Come to think of it, we see LTL's and laser cannons flakburst alot when trying to hit small, agile targets, but seldom when used on larger targets that are easier to hit.
Could it be that standard practice is to flakburst only against small, evasive targets? (Flakbursting a TL bolt can't improve it's armour penetration) Come to think of it, I'm not even sure that we've ever seen MTL's or HTL's used in this fashion.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Even if the TL just punches a hole through, they could flackburst it. It may take them a few seconds to think about doing it, but they could set it to flackburst inside the cube.

[Darth Servo]

Well, a borg cube, unlike the human brain, can still function with the loss of ~70% of it's mass IIRC. The mere comparison between a borg cube and the human brain is flawed on a fundamental level, and I'm dissapointed that you took such a sloppy line just to squeeze off another insult. The debate backs up the insults, not the other way round.

As Mike would say, "read the F***ing Website. See John Rhile's email exchange where Mike absolutely destroys that ridiculous 70% argument.

Well, we see TL bolts exploding around the Falcon in TESB. If a TL detonates inside the cube that pretty much punches a hole (pardon the pun) in your theory.

Well, that's a funny thing. IIRC it's LTL bolts that are exploding around the falcon, most likely to compensate for the fact that the falcon isn't the easiest of targets. Come to think of it, we see LTL's and laser cannons flakburst alot when trying to hit small, agile targets, but seldom when used on larger targets that are easier to hit.
Could it be that standard practice is to flakburst only against small, evasive targets? (Flakbursting a TL bolt can't improve it's armour penetration) Come to think of it, I'm not even sure that we've ever seen MTL's or HTL's used in this fashion.

We've never seen MTLs or HTLs ever fired in the Trillogy! And its been proven that LIGHT TL would be more than enough to punch through a borg cube and they DO have flak bursts. IF a LTL simply punched straight through a cube and came out the other side on the first shot, you can be damn well sure that the ISD's gunners WOULD set the LTL to burst INSIDE the cube.

[namdoolb]

As Mike would say, "read the F***ing Website. See John Rhile's email exchange where Mike absolutely destroys that ridiculous 70% argument.

That's all well and good, but doesn't touch on the fact that picard knew exactly where to hit the borg ship. (no fault of Wong's, this T-1000 person never brought it up.) Can operate with 70% of it's superstructure destroyed =! you will always have to destroy 70% of the superstructure to kill it. I take the 70% as a best case scenario: in the field the figure will doubtless drop well below that. But that in no way prevents a borg cube from retaining operational capacity with a few holes in it. And it certainly doesn't make the original post which I was countering (the one that likened a borg cube to a human brain) valid.

[Ghost Rider]

1 200GT blast has distribution of energy...it would not fire a clean hole.

The FC fight was not even a quarter of this...and it vaped the cube.

Why would this honestly be different.

The Borg may eventually win but it would take hundreds of Cubes for a piece of technology they would not understand nor power.

[beyond hope]

That's all well and good, but doesn't touch on the fact that picard knew exactly where to hit the borg ship. (no fault of Wong's, this T-1000 person never brought it up.) Can operate with 70% of it's superstructure destroyed =! you will always have to destroy 70% of the superstructure to kill it. I take the 70% as a best case scenario: in the field the figure will doubtless drop well below that. But that in no way prevents a borg cube from retaining operational capacity with a few holes in it. And it certainly doesn't make the original post which I was countering (the one that likened a borg cube to a human brain) valid.

You don't see the contradiction implicit in Picard "knowing just where to hit" something that can continue to fight after 70% of it's hull is destroyed and supposedly has no vital areas to hit?

[Darth Servo]

That's all well and good, but doesn't touch on the fact that picard knew exactly where to hit the borg ship.

Doesn't matter. It doesn't change the FACT that the cube in question blew up with FAR LESS THAN 70% damage. In fact, a miniscule FRACTION of the 70% figure.

(no fault of Wong's, this T-1000 person never brought it up.) Can operate with 70% of it's superstructure destroyed =! you will always have to destroy 70% of the superstructure to kill it. I take the 70% as a best case scenario: in the field the figure will doubtless drop well below that. But that in no way prevents a borg cube from retaining operational capacity with a few holes in it. And it certainly doesn't make the original post which I was countering (the one that likened a borg cube to a human brain) valid.

Let's look at where the 70% figure comes from, TNG episode, 'Best of Both Worlds' where the crew was SPECULATING about how much of a cube would needed to be destroyed to keep it from regenerating. How can you consider SPECULATION to be reliable evidence?

[Howedar]

That's all well and good, but doesn't touch on the fact that picard knew exactly where to hit the borg ship. (no fault of Wong's, this T-1000 person never brought it up.) Can operate with 70% of it's superstructure destroyed =! you will always have to destroy 70% of the superstructure to kill it. I take the 70% as a best case scenario: in the field the figure will doubtless drop well below that. But that in no way prevents a borg cube from retaining operational capacity with a few holes in it. And it certainly doesn't make the original post which I was countering (the one that likened a borg cube to a human brain) valid.

You don't see the contradiction implicit in Picard "knowing just where to hit" something that can continue to fight after 70% of it's hull is destroyed and supposedly has no vital areas to hit?

We saw the Cube in question. It was not 70% destroyed. It was not 7% destroyed, for that matter.

[beyond hope]

I know, Howedar, I was asking Namdoolb to explain the discrepancy, and explain how Picard can pick out a vital system to destroy on a ship that's supposed to still be capable of fighting while only 30% of it is intact.

(I guess they count on whatever doohickey Picard shot at not being in the nearly 3/4ths of the cube that's been shot to hell)

[namdoolb]

That's all well and good, but doesn't touch on the fact that picard knew exactly where to hit the borg ship. (no fault of Wong's, this T-1000 person never brought it up.) Can operate with 70% of it's superstructure destroyed =! you will always have to destroy 70% of the superstructure to kill it. I take the 70% as a best case scenario: in the field the figure will doubtless drop well below that. But that in no way prevents a borg cube from retaining operational capacity with a few holes in it. And it certainly doesn't make the original post which I was countering (the one that likened a borg cube to a human brain) valid.

You don't see the contradiction implicit in Picard "knowing just where to hit" something that can continue to fight after 70% of it's hull is destroyed and supposedly has no vital areas to hit?

You're confusing "can" and "will". that's an easy mistake to make.


Should the TL bolt happen to hit a vital area on it's way through then it possesses the capacity to destroy the cube with a single shot. (even if this eventuality is not very likely) I have never disputed that Borg cubes have vital areas and that they could be destroyed rather more easily if these areas were hit.

What I have been proposing is that it is entirely possible (and likely) for a Turbolaser bolt to be able to pass right through without hitting anything important, and that the borg cube would not be significantly impeded by a few holes unless they happened to pass through any of it's vital systems.

Oh, and I never said that borg cubes have no vital areas.

[Ghost Rider]

You are still not taking into account the distribution of energy.

The MTL is a 200GT blast...it's not going to slice through cleanly.

You are thinking...it's a bullet...it'll just go on through when much evidence has shown it does no such thing.

[Darth Servo]

Should the TL bolt happen to hit a vital area on it's way through then it possesses the capacity to destroy the cube with a single shot. (even if this eventuality is not very likely) I have never disputed that Borg cubes have vital areas and that they could be destroyed rather more easily if these areas were hit.

What I have been proposing is that it is entirely possible (and likely) for a Turbolaser bolt to be able to pass right through without hitting anything important, and that the borg cube would not be significantly impeded by a few holes unless they happened to pass through any of it's vital systems.

Oh, and I never said that borg cubes have no vital areas.

All of this doesn't matter since Turbolasers contain enough energy to VAPORISE an entire cube with one shot.

[beyond hope]

Look at what happens to the asteroid in Empire Strikes Back when it's hit by a turbolaser bolt of smaller diameter: the bolt doesn't punch a hole through, or shatter the asteroid... it vaporizes it completely.

Same deal with the cube.

[namdoolb]

I should note at this point that flakburst argument will force a concession from me. If the TL bolts are flakbursted inside the cube they will kill it. There's no getting around that. Any further continuation of this debate is of academic value only, however I'm perfectly willing to continue if people want. Just note that it doesn't really make a blind bit of difference any more.

All of this doesn't matter since Turbolasers contain enough energy to VAPORISE an entire cube with one shot.

Which brings us full circle back round to my original question.
How in the hell is a something so puny as a borg cube going to stop a Turbolaser bolt? It needs to, because if it doesn't then the TL bolt will be in the front and out the back of the borg cube in no time at all (however long it takes to cover 3km at lightspeed, cant be more than a couple of thousandths of a second... if that.) certainly not long enough to impart any energy beyond that required to burn it's way through.
Remember, Turbolasers are designed to penetrate the heavy Neutronium based armour on Star wars vessels, by comparison the puny paper thin hull and armour on the borg cube will offer no resistance whatsoever.

And ghost Rider: I will get to you, but not today. Because here in the UK it's 3am. meaning unless you want me not to bother (read start of post) I'll get to you tomorrow. By which point I'm sure 6 or 7 more people will have jumped in to knock my argument on the head.

[Ghost Rider]

You still are denying distribution of energy by making the notion that speed is somehow going to lessen the blow.

So you either show me how the distribution of 200GT is not going to vaporize a Borg cube or you just concede the point.

[Darth Servo]

How in the hell is a something so puny as a borg cube going to stop a Turbolaser bolt? It needs to, because if it doesn't then the TL bolt will be in the front and out the back of the borg cube in no time at all (however long it takes to cover 3km at lightspeed, cant be more than a couple of thousandths of a second... if that.) certainly not long enough to impart any energy beyond that required to burn it's way through.

Anyone with functional eyes can see that turbolasers do not travel at light speed.

Remember, Turbolasers are designed to penetrate the heavy Neutronium based armour on Star wars vessels, by comparison the puny paper thin hull and armour on the borg cube will offer no resistance whatsoever.

ROTFL. This has got to be the first time anyone has tried to argue that LESS armor (or in the case of a cube, none at all) is an advantage. The asteroids in TESB didn't have any neutronium in them yet the bolt detonated upon impact and vaporized the asteroid. Of course rocks are better built than borg cubes.

[MirrorUniverseSpy1]

The Vette wins, for the reasons listed above, it could leave using speeds
the Borg can't match if it had to, so I see no way a cube could win.

[Boba Fett]

Yes, you're right!

How would the Borg ram their ship into the Corellian Corvette if they can't even go with the same speed?

...and while they do that they will be an easy target for the medium and light turbos...