Occupation

[Stark]

Very strange. I can understand NLs position, since he feels that so long as his uniqueness continues to exist in some form, it isn't 'death' (ie, the total extinction of identity). However, it most certainly is 'death' for the original. It's not like 'you' will server-hop into the new body. It's not like you'll ever be aware of what the other body does. It's a totally separate and distinct entity which happens to be identical to you: this is enough for NL, apparently, since his identity hasn't been interrupted, and it's enough to put me off because stepping on that pad will, without doubt, end *my* existence. I intend to make my existence as long and enjoyable as possible, and killing myself to save a shuttle trip isn't going to happen.

[PayBack]

That's the thing though, a lot of people think they'll black out, then wake up on the other side.

[Stark]

Yeah, but I don't understand *why* they think that. I mean, you get disintegrated. That even kills Time Lords! Maybe they figure they'll have a temporary near death experience until a copy is made?

[PayBack]

It's because you see it 1000 times a year on SciFi shows.. for all intents and purposes you see the same person come out the other side.. the one thing you can't see is the originals loss of experience... they get in.. go fuzzy, walk out.. even when you see it from their point of view that's how it appears... combine that with the closes real life experience.. going to sleep.. you go to sleep, blank out, then wake up.. seems so similar.

[nightmare]

Something do believe that I've previously indicated doesn't disturb me whatsoever. That said, keeping the stasis'd copy around for years seems rather impractical.

Yes it is. Maybe we want to keep the old you for spare parts. I'm just trying to figure out your thinking here.

Yers... That's why there are crimes other than murder. Rape and assult victims undergo "experience" after all. Wink

I don't consider rape and assault worse than murder. Last I checked, the law agrees with me in many countries.

The only thing is, I really do know the implications of my view.

But I'm not telepathic, so I don't know what's going on in your head unless I ask questions.

Collective delusion is still delusion. I would have no problem with cults drinking the cool aid if there was solid evidence that they really were revived in paradise.

Of course. If I had no evidence that there was rematerialisation, it would seem just as hideous as Emeniar Seven's disintegration stations.

Fair enough.

I suspect it was initially used as cargo transport only, but began to be used for humans when humans started being forced to choose between true death or transport. I believe an instance of this happened in Enterprise season one, actually.

I guess I have to watch Enterprise after all sometime. Voyager spoiled Trek for me after season two.

Indeed not. I'm an atheist.

And I'm an agnostic. Not that it has much bearing on the topic, but I feel in this case, the point really is to try and understand your position since that's what was argued about in the first place.

There's certainly evidence curtesy of idiot-writers, that humans in Trek have intangible spirits.

There is. But what evidence is there that it is transported along to a new host body? Or does the soul just go there on its own when its host is destroyed a la Stark's server-hop? Or, how about the peculiar pattern buffer loop in Relics? Was the soul stored in memory banks? The very concept of the idea almost makes my head spin.

I feel we are reaching the end of this discussion. I may still reply if I feel your answers requires it, or if you ask me to, but at large, we're about done IMHO. I don't agree that eletrical pattern copying is the same as carrying on an identical self, but it's a matter of perspective rather than being right or wrong without clear evidence to support either. As I said before, I may not have any objections to "soul transfer", if, indeed, such a thing is possible. I thank you for an interesting debate.