Star Wars Peaceful attitude and telepaths

[Backstabber]

Hey,
This is my first post here. I am not to really versed in the Science and Maths, unfortunatly. (I was a Sociology, Criminology, and History major).

Anyways, I was wondering what you thought of Star Trek so called peaceful attitude. How all of humanity, lives together and loves each other. We get along great with all aliens, plants and animals(Even the ones that bite us). It's all so grand great. Now realistically speaking, you throw 5 humans together, you will have a fight in 20 minutes. It is natural. HUmanity are a violent and emotional people. We are natually violent. There is never a point in human history where we have had peace. NEver. There is always somebody dying, either globally, socially or locally. I just wanted thoughts on this. Also about Telepaths. I always hated Star Treks approach to telepaths. If that was me and Trois mother kept on reading my thoughts I would kill her. She is invading my privacy. But on the show they laugh and have a gay old time. Just don't get it. I much prefer Babylon 5 approach. They control telepaths and they are hated and mistreated. Any thoughts?

John Rosini
P.S. I was watchint ST:NG the other day, I can't rememebr the episode. It's the one after the best of both worlds, when Picard goes back to his village and brother(It is a good episode, don't get me wrong) but there was a part where they want to raise the ocean floor. Why would you raise the ocean floor?? Lets kill off thousands of fish species so we can raise the ocean floor. Nice "Enlightened" attitude.

[Colonel Olrik]

We get along great with all aliens

Except the Klingon, Romulans, Borg, Dominium, etc

[Kuja]

Welcome to SD.net!


*POKE*

As to your ideas: they show how messed up and wanking Star Trek really is. I can see you're a fairly intelligent person, and I think you'll do well here. Again, welcome.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

While I don't think telepaths should be hated and mistreated, ST approach is sickinning. She was reading Picard's mind all the time. What if she discovered secret Federation military information?

[Ghost Rider]

Honestly I see Trek less enlightened and more repressed.

Everything we consider a tad bit evil and self indulgent they consider taboo and evil with some bizarre feeling that this is somehow to raise us above baser means and makes us noble somehow.

As for TP...I don't agree with either since one basically makes them lab animals(B5) and the other makes reaching into my own head and yapping as okay and no problem thing(ST)

[beyond hope]

One thing I wish we'd seen more of in Episode II is how the general public reacts to Jedi. I've always thought B5's depiction of "teeps" is pretty on the money: envied, feared, and hated all at once for what they *could* be doing with their abilities. I have trouble believing that our first encounter with aliens would be anything other than a war: look how poorly human beings get along with each other now, and we're *all the same species.*

[God Emperor]

welcome fellow newbie and i agree with you humans are violent so there will never be peace like in trek and raising an ocean floor is stupid, if they were only trying to raise it to build on they could just fill it in and if there were artfacts down there they could use divers, so trek must work a little to reach perfiection wich is untaniable(?)

[Master of Ossus]

Hey,
This is my first post here. I am not to really versed in the Science and Maths, unfortunatly. (I was a Sociology, Criminology, and History major).

That's fine. Welcome to SD.net.

Anyways, I was wondering what you thought of Star Trek so called peaceful attitude. How all of humanity, lives together and loves each other. We get along great with all aliens, plants and animals(Even the ones that bite us). It's all so grand great. Now realistically speaking, you throw 5 humans together, you will have a fight in 20 minutes. It is natural. HUmanity are a violent and emotional people. We are natually violent. There is never a point in human history where we have had peace. NEver.

I primarily agree with you that the UFP utopia presented frequently in the show is unrealistic based on human nature, but I'm not sure that the perceptions that the show gives us are complete. Remember that on SF vessels, everyone has about the same level of education (they all went to the Academy, and they all have a disturbing tendency to graduate first or second in their classes, and most of the bridge officers excel at something else, outside of class). Thus, the characters that we see most frequently are the ones who are most likely to maintain intelligent and enlightened attitudes.

I don't agree with you, however, in that the Star Trek universe is the utopia that many characters speak of. I, quite frankly, think that they are misinterpreting the world that exists around them, and that they are being unrealistic, also. If you watch the show, you will see many examples of discrimination against certain alien species (Cardassians, Klingons, Ferengi, Romulans, and Vulcans in ENT and even TOS). You will also see examples of crime (the guy who breaks into Worf's quarters, practically everything that Quark does, etc.). Thus, when a character claims that the UFP is basically a perfect civilization I think that they are incorrect. I think it is a better society, in many ways, than the one we have today, but I also believe that the world actually portrayed by the show is different from the world that the characters in the show believe exists.

[Tsyroc]

P.S. I was watchint ST:NG the other day, I can't rememebr the episode. It's the one after the best of both worlds, when Picard goes back to his village and brother(It is a good episode, don't get me wrong) but there was a part where they want to raise the ocean floor. Why would you raise the ocean floor?? Lets kill off thousands of fish species so we can raise the ocean floor. Nice "Enlightened" attitude.

I thought that was odd too. They've got people living on the moon and Mars, Earth doesn't appear to be overcroweded but they are going to royally screw with the environment by artificially raising a land mass from the ocean floor. That doesn't seem to be in keeping with Trek philosophy at all. Certainly not the Fedeartions.

[Engineer_00]

I've always thought the Federation is to diplomatic when the best negotiation tool would be a phaser. That's the thing that really makes the Empire sort of superior. The Federation would be setting negotiations, and the Empire would be halfway through the bloody invasion!

[TheDarkling]

MOO: Often when they talk about the utopia they mention earth specifically which does seem to be the perfect little paradise they paint it as (pick pocketing goes on for the tourist value ) the rest of the UFP while still being above current earth standards isn't anywhere near perfect.

[Master of Ossus]

MOO: Often when they talk about the utopia they mention earth specifically which does seem to be the perfect little paradise they paint it as (pick pocketing goes on for the tourist value ) the rest of the UFP while still being above current earth standards isn't anywhere near perfect.

That's true. They also sometimes paint Risa or a handful of other worlds as being particularly perfect, but you are correct in that only Earth is depicted in such a manner consistently.

[beyond hope]

You have Gene Roddenbery's agenda to consider, too, when looking at 24th century earth. "Look how happy we are and how idyllic everything is now that we've given up our greedy materialistic warlike roots!"

[Enlightenment]

As for TP...I don't agree with either since one basically makes them lab animals(B5) and the other makes reaching into my own head and yapping as okay and no problem thing(ST)

I think a lot of the difference here between the treatment of B5 and ST teeps isn't entirely due to the different outlooks of B5 and ST (dystopian and utopian respectively) but also due to different capabilities of ordinary telepathy in the two universes. Excluding the Trek omnipotents and the likes of Zeus (from TOS), most Trek teeps are nowhere as powerful--and therefore much less dangerous--as their B5 counterparts.

High-level B5 teeps can kill people, take control of their bodies, or even replace their personalities. It doesn't help that B5 teeps have a habit of doing this kind of thing, either. In contrast, ordinary Trek teeps don't seem to be able to do all that much more than read minds, mind-meld, and provoke random acts of emotion from time to time. The worst a Trek teep can really do is read out your mind and blab the contents; he/she can't kill you with nothing more than a thought.

[Darth Yoshi]

Hey,
This is my first post here. I am not to really versed in the Science and Maths, unfortunatly. (I was a Sociology, Criminology, and History major).

Anyways, I was wondering what you thought of Star Trek so called peaceful attitude. How all of humanity, lives together and loves each other. We get along great with all aliens, plants and animals(Even the ones that bite us). It's all so grand great. Now realistically speaking, you throw 5 humans together, you will have a fight in 20 minutes. It is natural. HUmanity are a violent and emotional people. We are natually violent. There is never a point in human history where we have had peace. NEver. There is always somebody dying, either globally, socially or locally. I just wanted thoughts on this. Also about Telepaths. I always hated Star Treks approach to telepaths. If that was me and Trois mother kept on reading my thoughts I would kill her. She is invading my privacy. But on the show they laugh and have a gay old time. Just don't get it. I much prefer Babylon 5 approach. They control telepaths and they are hated and mistreated. Any thoughts?

John Rosini
P.S. I was watchint ST:NG the other day, I can't rememebr the episode. It's the one after the best of both worlds, when Picard goes back to his village and brother(It is a good episode, don't get me wrong) but there was a part where they want to raise the ocean floor. Why would you raise the ocean floor?? Lets kill off thousands of fish species so we can raise the ocean floor. Nice "Enlightened" attitude.

Supposedly humans have become like that in less than 85 years. I don't believe so, and think it's more like a very well concealed totalitarian society. And welcome to SD.net, mortal. Don't do anything stupid on a regular basis and you'll be fine. *chucks egg*

[neoolong]

Hey,
This is my first post here. I am not to really versed in the Science and Maths, unfortunatly. (I was a Sociology, Criminology, and History major).

Hello.

Anyways, I was wondering what you thought of Star Trek so called peaceful attitude. How all of humanity, lives together and loves each other. We get along great with all aliens, plants and animals(Even the ones that bite us).

Except for the more realistic alien species that actually some depth. Though B&B fucked that up as well.

It's all so grand great. Now realistically speaking, you throw 5 humans together, you will have a fight in 20 minutes. It is natural. HUmanity are a violent and emotional people. We are natually violent. There is never a point in human history where we have had peace. NEver. There is always somebody dying, either globally, socially or locally. I just wanted thoughts on this.

Eugenics and mass indoctrination perhaps?

Also about Telepaths. I always hated Star Treks approach to telepaths. If that was me and Trois mother kept on reading my thoughts I would kill her. She is invading my privacy. But on the show they laugh and have a gay old time. Just don't get it. I much prefer Babylon 5 approach. They control telepaths and they are hated and mistreated. Any thoughts?

I think the best way is sorta in-between. There should be an organization that polices and monitors all telepathic activity. However, I also don't believe that they should be hated and mistreated. It is not their fault. And even though they may not be as powerful as B5 teeps, they are still dangerous and routinely invade peoples' privacy.

John Rosini
P.S. I was watchint ST:NG the other day, I can't rememebr the episode. It's the one after the best of both worlds, when Picard goes back to his village and brother(It is a good episode, don't get me wrong) but there was a part where they want to raise the ocean floor. Why would you raise the ocean floor?? Lets kill off thousands of fish species so we can raise the ocean floor. Nice "Enlightened" attitude.

I don't remember that episode, but that sounds pretty fucked up. The other Federation planets didn't seem so damn crowded back in the day. Why bother raising the ocean floor? That's just stupid.

[Kurgan]

Sorry if this has been repeated, but in the world of TNG, apparently animals have rights.

People only eat "replicated" food, no animals are "enslaved for food."

And since its doubtful they have animals bred to WANT to be eaten (a la Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy), they simply don't eat animals.

Except when it comes to seafood. They love that seafood. Shrimp, caviar, whatever you want.

If its a non-mammal that lives in the ocean, chances are it has no right to life, in Star Trek's thinking. ; )

Them's good eatin'!

[Lord Pounder]

The federation is enligntened? Is that why there is evidance of species segrated ships? is that why a minority race like the humans can dominate the Quadrant? Is that why the Federation has has skirmishes and wars with EVERY other race in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants?

[desertjedi]

I have to admit, that I am not much of a fan of the Star Trek series but I do have note to add:

Why is each race stereotyped in certain roles, the Vulcans are the scientists, the Klingons are bloodthirsty warriors who Preach honor when they are as political as the next, the Romulans who are diabolical and sneaky.

I just saw a copy of DS9 Trials and Tribbles or somthing like that when the Defiant goes back in time and the Klingons there were rather smart, at least when speaking rather than the grunting idiots that we see now.

Also, I know Rodenberry wanted the Federation to be the end all be all of peaceful utopia, so was it B&B that changed it to what it is today, the ultra beuracratic class oriented organization that we see in TNG rather then TOS?

Yeah, please forgive all the spelling errors, if there are any. Graveyard shifts suck...

[weemadando]

OK...

A few nitpicks, ST getting along with Aliens? Sorry, but they have their share of diplomatic problems.

With SW and telepaths in the Original Trilogy era I'm guessing that most of them are spotted by Empire spies and reported.

Oh and welcome to SD.net. Behave yourself and the Jihad won't have a reason to cause a ruckus.

[Master of Ossus]

Supposedly humans have become like that in less than 85 years. I don't believe so, and think it's more like a very well concealed totalitarian society. And welcome to SD.net, mortal. Don't do anything stupid on a regular basis and you'll be fine. *chucks egg*

I once got into a heated conflict with SCVN about this issue. He was convinced that World War III fundamentally altered the manner in which people live their lives (though he later changed the stimulus to being contact with aliens).

[Backstabber]

Even if you have such a big event as that it wouldn't change millions of years of evolution. World War 2 didn't change much. Just made the weapons we kill each other with that much more dangerous. You can even argue about 9/11. People always say it changed their lives and this and that. It has changed nothing.

[Ted C]

People only eat "replicated" food, no animals are "enslaved for food."

That's not entirely true. Remember that Miles O'Brien's mother cooked real meat like mutton shanks. Keiko was somewhat revolted at the thought of Miles' mother actually touching and handling "real meat".

It's apparently not a common practice, but it still exists.

[Ghost Rider]

Also Picard's brother grows wine.

So non replicated exist...just less so.

I still hold by more repressed than enlightened.

[Master of Ossus]

Even if you have such a big event as that it wouldn't change millions of years of evolution. World War 2 didn't change much. Just made the weapons we kill each other with that much more dangerous. You can even argue about 9/11. People always say it changed their lives and this and that. It has changed nothing.

Both World War II and 9/11 changed people's lives to an enormous extent (as did numerous other events, inventions, etc.), however they did not change human nature.