How many (ex)servicemen

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-09 01:32am

TrailerParkJawa wrote:
Or to just get the hell out
Im usually pretty curious when I meet someone who was in the military, I ask them if they liked it. Id say 60-70% always say no. One of my co-workers was in the Navy for 6 years and absolutely hated it. For many reasons I can understand, crappy food, cramped conditions on ship, low pay, etc.

However, compared to my mom's cooking. Id eat military food anyday.

My experience was okay. I might have stayed in longer if my experiences on my first ship weren't so bad. Then again I might not have liked my second ship as well if I didn't have the bad to copare it to.

My biggest reasons for getting out were that the Navy was my whole life all the time. I lived on the ship all the time. Even in homeport that meant I had a lot more guy roomates than I would like. So almost no privacy and you also get the pleasure of constantly cleaning up after others, having them mooch off of you (hopefully not steal). Your friend is also right about the space. You don't have much on ship.

I suppose in a way the discipline probably wore on me too. Haircut at least every two weeks. I like my hair short even now but a military haircut is more than just short. Short can still be outside of regs, touching the ears etc. Shoes shined, uniforms cleaned & pressed (working uniforms too) and the little nit-picky things that can get annoying. Saying "sir" or "yes sir" a half dozen times in a conversation with an officer only to get reamed for the one "yeah"that comes through. Officers having to point out that they are officers.

The food wasn't that bad. There were a couple times where it was the worst thing I'd ever seen or eaten. On other times it was pretty good. On average it was better than your typical school cafeteria, a lot of times it was much better.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2002-12-09 01:35am

That's why I won't go Navy. A chaplain's four year term requires at least 4 6-month tours aboard ship, and I don't like enclosed spaces THAT much. I'll take Air Force, thank you very much. Decent living and food, and I'll get to see stuff my father helped build.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 01:36am

Tsyroc wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote: I hope they got a vocation in the Forces (get paid to learn a trade ), otherwise all they learnt was how to settle disputes with their bosses real quick.

A lot of jobs don't necessarilly translate directly to civilian jobs. With mine there was the basic electronics training but none of the equipment I worked on was used by anyone but the military. I knew a few people who went to work for Raytheon working as tech reps otherwise the usuable training from the Navy was basic general electronics.

The military is also under time and money constraints so they are primarilly interested in teaching you enough to do the job they want to do. From a basics standpoint I was crap as a tech. I was halfway decent in troubleshooting but only because I knew my equipment not because I understooded it like the really good techs.

I was much better operating the equipment. So if you know anyone who wants me identify incoming missile radars and jam the crap out of them just let me know.

Cool, do the sensors and Equipment come as part of the package?

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-12-09 01:39am

The Dark wrote:That's why I won't go Navy. A chaplain's four year term requires at least 4 6-month tours aboard ship, and I don't like enclosed spaces THAT much. I'll take Air Force, thank you very much. Decent living and food, and I'll get to see stuff my father helped build.

Ah, yes, the Air Force. Where a a hard-duty assignment is an assignment to any base that doesn't have its own golf course....

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 01:39am

EmperorMing wrote:
I liked it as an experience and nothing more. I knew I was there to get what I wanted and to then get the hell out. In that regard I had some interesting times.
If I could turn back the clock and do it again I would do so at the drop of a hat. Can't beat the 2 years I spent in Germany.

Germany was... nice,

but I only got a 4 month tour out there.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-09 01:41am

EmperorMing wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote: I really enjoyed my time while I was serving. Now I just look on it as an experience, then it was the only thing that mattered. I know it's not for everyone (some personalities just don't fit into a military shaped life) and for some it's very different to what they envisioned so they go through the whole thing hating every minute. Horses for courses.
I liked it as an experience and nothing more. I knew I was there to get what I wanted and to then get the hell out. In that regard I had some interesting times.
If I could turn back the clock and do it again I would do so at the drop of a hat. Can't beat the 2 years I spent in Germany.

Even knowing what I know now I'd do it over. There are some things I'd do differently. If I was planing on only doing one hitch I'd only do 4 years while trying to save as much money as possible. If I was going to stay in longer I'd go in with the intention of at least doing 20 so I'd better plan my carrer. Plus, getting retirement pay at 39years old seems pretty good now. Still plenty of time to do other stuff and you already have one income

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 01:44am

Tsyroc wrote:
I suppose in a way the discipline probably wore on me too. Haircut at least every two weeks. I like my hair short even now but a military haircut is more than just short. Short can still be outside of regs, touching the ears etc. Shoes shined, uniforms cleaned & pressed (working uniforms too) and the little nit-picky things that can get annoying. Saying "sir" or "yes sir" a half dozen times in a conversation with an officer only to get reamed for the one "yeah"that comes through. Officers having to point out that they are officers.

I know what you mean about the hair, even now it just feels wrong to have long hair so mines pretty short. Your officers were dicks though if they got you on bullshit like the "yeah" comment. If it's just you and them then forgeting it once in a conversation should get you at most a "get your act together" look. I'd understand if there were officers from a different unit present but otherwise that's just fucked.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-09 01:44am

Rob Wilson wrote: Cool, do the sensors and Equipment come as part of the package?

Unfortunately no.

If they did I probably wouldn't be posting here because I'd be in federal prison for jamming things I wasn't supposed to.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 01:47am

Tsyroc wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote: Cool, do the sensors and Equipment come as part of the package?

Unfortunately no. If they did I probably wouldn't be posting here because I'd be in federal prison for jamming things I wasn't supposed to.

At least you'd have no speeding tickets (though fitting an ECM mast to your car may take some work.)

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-09 01:51am

Rob Wilson wrote: I know what you mean about the hair, even now it just feels wrong to have long hair so mines pretty short. Your officers were dicks though if they got you on bullshit like the "yeah" comment. If it's just you and them then forgeting it once in a conversation should get you at most a "get your act together" look. I'd understand if there were officers from a different unit present but otherwise that's just fucked.

The instance I'm thinking of was with my division officer. He was doing a spot check on the maintenance I'd done and for some reason he decided to give me shit about the "yeah" when I answered the last in his string of questions. Usually he was pretty cool and we had been relatively unformal for most of the spot check so I'm not entirely sure where that came from. I wouldn't be suprised if the officers in my department had recently been reminded about military discipline or something. I also think there was some confusion with how my D.O. thought I percieved him.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 02:05am

Tsyroc wrote:
Rob Wilson wrote: I know what you mean about the hair, even now it just feels wrong to have long hair so mines pretty short. Your officers were dicks though if they got you on bullshit like the "yeah" comment. If it's just you and them then forgeting it once in a conversation should get you at most a "get your act together" look. I'd understand if there were officers from a different unit present but otherwise that's just fucked.
The instance I'm thinking of was with my division officer. He was doing a spot check on the maintenance I'd done and for some reason he decided to give me shit about the "yeah" when I answered the last in his string of questions. Usually he was pretty cool and we had been relatively unformal for most of the spot check so I'm not entirely sure where that came from. I wouldn't be suprised if the officers in my department had recently been reminded about military discipline or something. I also think there was some confusion with how my D.O. thought I percieved him.

Fair enough, our rules were common sense, you could get away with calling an Officer "boss" provided there were no other officers from other units around. Being an NCO helped, but then you had to ensure that the OR's kept to the rules or it was time to crack down. Having said that i don't think I ever had to crack down once for that reason, so..

As with everything else in the Military it had it's own little rules and exceptions. No use of Boss in front of the RSM, no use of Boss EVER to the Colonel, It' alright to call your OC Boss in front of the gathered PC's of your company, but not your own PC in front of other PC's from your Company, and NEVER in front of an Officer of any rank from another Company/Battalion/Regiment.

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2002-12-09 02:17am

my dad is WW2-era ex-USAF i forgot his rank and position though.

i myself am hoping to join either the Navy or Air Force after i get out of university (electrical engineering)... but i have my doubts as to if they'd even take me (have been on anti-depression meds before) or even how long i'd be able to stay in (i'm bisexual, and not exactly into women, right now at least), even though i know i'd enjoy it. i'm currently joining CAP.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2002-12-09 02:20am

Rob Wilson wrote: Fair enough, our rules were common sense, you could get away with calling an Officer "boss" provided there were no other officers from other units around. Being an NCO helped, but then you had to ensure that the OR's kept to the rules or it was time to crack down. Having said that i don't think I ever had to crack down once for that reason, so..

As with everything else in the Military it had it's own little rules and exceptions. No use of Boss in front of the RSM, no use of Boss EVER to the Colonel, It' alright to call your OC Boss in front of the gathered PC's of your company, but not your own PC in front of other PC's from your Company, and NEVER in front of an Officer of any rank from another Company/Battalion/Regiment.

We could always call an officer by his rank. Officers ranking from about LtCdr down could be called Mr. so&so. There's the ever popular sir. Warrant Officers could be called "Warrant". There were some other names that could be used when referring to officers in specific positions. CAG seemed to be acceptable for most people to use when speaking to the Airwing Commander but stuff like "gator" and "Ops-o" weren't generally used by junior personel when speaking to the person in that position (Navigator, Operatons Officer).

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2002-12-09 02:25am

Lets see, no service for me, though it may come in the future.

Father: US Army, fought in Indochina, wounded in action and later suffered a serious back injury in training, which has now grown to cripple him.
Grandfather: USN
Cousin: USN
Cousin: US Army
Cousin: USAF

That's all I'm aware of. My mothers side stems from Quaker routes there is no military service that I'm aware of on it.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2002-12-09 02:26am

I spent four years in the U.S. army infantry. I got up to sergeant and was a squad leader when I got out. I could have gone through OCS, since I already had my degree, but I went in partly to take advantage of the loan repayment program, which only applies to enlisted, and I knew beforehand that it was almost certainly not the career I wanted to pursue, and so four years was long enough (officers have a longer commitment, it can be six years or more depending on how how long you have to wait for the review board to convene, how soon you get an OCS class date, etc.).

I ended after four years because I was tired of the 13+ hour work days. I was in during the era of Clinton downsizing. Our personnel numbers were down and our optempo was up, so we had more missions to run with fewer people, and that meant everybody was putting in looooong hours. I know that the army was having an extremely hard time hanging onto officers at Captain and below because of that problem. Basically, you had no time for a life of your own, and people were just getting sick of it. Things have gotten better since then I hear, but I felt I'd done my bit for king and country and got out at the end of my tour.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 02:29am

Hyperion wrote:my dad is WW2-era ex-USAF i forgot his rank and position though.

i myself am hoping to join either the Navy or Air Force after i get out of university (electrical engineering)... but i have my doubts as to if they'd even take me (have been on anti-depression meds before) or even how long i'd be able to stay in (i'm bisexual, and not exactly into women, right now at least), even though i know i'd enjoy it. i'm currently joining CAP.

Have you considered having the Military pay for your University? As you have mentioned wanting to join up. As to the Sex thing, I believe the US operates "Don't ask" policies there. The Anti-depressants coul present a problem but not necessarily, check with your doctor and the Recruitment station of the Service you were wanting to join. What is CAP?

Alternatively if your more concerned about your Civilian life and want to just have a taste of the military then the National guard (Navy and Airforce equivalents) should be available to you.

(grief this thread has me sounding like a recruiter

)

Which ever path you choose don't do it due to percieved circumstances, do it because it's what you want to do and will make you happy.

Post by **Rob Wilson** » 2002-12-09 02:41am

Perinquus wrote:I spent four years in the U.S. army infantry. I got up to sergeant and was a squad leader when I got out. I could have gone through OCS, since I already had my degree, but I went in partly to take advantage of the loan repayment program, which only applies to enlisted, and I knew beforehand that it was almost certainly not the career I wanted to pursue, and so four years was long enough (officers have a longer commitment, it can be six years or more depending on how how long you have to wait for the review board to convene, how soon you get an OCS class date, etc.).

I ended after four years because I was tired of the 13+ hour work days. I was in during the era of Clinton downsizing. Our personnel numbers were down and our optempo was up, so we had more missions to run with fewer people, and that meant everybody was putting in looooong hours. I know that the army was having an extremely hard time hanging onto officers at Captain and below because of that problem. Basically, you had no time for a life of your own, and people were just getting sick of it. Things have gotten better since then I hear, but I felt I'd done my bit for king and country and got out at the end of my tour.

That sounds sounds spookily familiar, I was serving during the great "Options for Change" military downsizing in the UK - My original unit was trimmed ruthlessly. Mind you 13+ hour work days were pretty routine for us unless we had a really slack period or posting. Obviously field work was much longer hours (same for you too I should think), but all told I wouldn't say 13+ hours was an excessively long work day.

We had too many officer candidates and a 2lt would be used to working long hours or else what the hell were they in for? Most of them seemed to thrive on it, maybe because they know once they hit Colonel they get to lounge around all day

.

Hyperion · Post by **Hyperion** » 2002-12-09 02:54am

Rob Wilson wrote:
Hyperion wrote:my dad is WW2-era ex-USAF i forgot his rank and position though.

i myself am hoping to join either the Navy or Air Force after i get out of university (electrical engineering)... but i have my doubts as to if they'd even take me (have been on anti-depression meds before) or even how long i'd be able to stay in (i'm bisexual, and not exactly into women, right now at least), even though i know i'd enjoy it. i'm currently joining CAP.
Have you considered having the Military pay for your University? As you have mentioned wanting to join up. As to the Sex thing, I believe the US operates "Don't ask" policies there. The Anti-depressants coul present a problem but not necessarily, check with your doctor and the Recruitment station of the Service you were wanting to join. What is CAP?

Alternatively if your more concerned about your Civilian life and want to just have a taste of the military then the National guard (Navy and Airforce equivalents) should be available to you.

(grief this thread has me sounding like a recruiter )

Which ever path you choose don't do it due to percieved circumstances, do it because it's what you want to do and will make you happy.

true, but i've heard it's not the policy you worry about, apprently "accidents" for those who're gay/bi are not uncommon, or so i've heard...though i can safely say it's not something that would affect the performing of my duties.

my civilian life sucks which is one reason the military sounds good for me, that and the fact that a structured environment works much better with me.

and yes, i am intending to go into ROTC when i go into university to pay for the costs.

btw, CAP is the Civil Air Patrol. interesting group.

Perinquus · Post by **Perinquus** » 2002-12-09 03:04am

Rob Wilson wrote: That sounds sounds spookily familiar, I was serving during the great "Options for Change" military downsizing in the UK - My original unit was trimmed ruthlessly. Mind you 13+ hour work days were pretty routine for us unless we had a really slack period or posting. Obviously field work was much longer hours (same for you too I should think), but all told I wouldn't say 13+ hours was an excessively long work day.

We had too many officer candidates and a 2lt would be used to working long hours or else what the hell were they in for? Most of them seemed to thrive on it, maybe because they know once they hit Colonel they get to lounge around all day .

Yeah, 13+ hours was the norm. Problem was, with extra missions or an inspection coming up, it could easily balloon. It frequently did. And that, of course, doesn't count deployments. When we were having a readiness inspection it would be no unusual thing to get off work at 2200hrs and be right back for reveille the next morning at 0600 (and since I was squad leader, I was expected to be in at 0530 to meet with the platoon leader and platoon sergeant) - and this could go on for an entire week or more. Then we're off to the field for a month to train. Then you get back and you have a solid week of range training... Well, you know how it goes.

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2002-12-09 04:10am

Perinquus wrote:I spent four years in the U.S. army infantry. I got up to sergeant and was a squad leader when I got out. I could have gone through OCS, since I already had my degree, but I went in partly to take advantage of the loan repayment program, which only applies to enlisted, and I knew beforehand that it was almost certainly not the career I wanted to pursue, and so four years was long enough (officers have a longer commitment, it can be six years or more depending on how how long you have to wait for the review board to convene, how soon you get an OCS class date, etc.).

I ended after four years because I was tired of the 13+ hour work days. I was in during the era of Clinton downsizing. Our personnel numbers were down and our optempo was up, so we had more missions to run with fewer people, and that meant everybody was putting in looooong hours. I know that the army was having an extremely hard time hanging onto officers at Captain and below because of that problem. Basically, you had no time for a life of your own, and people were just getting sick of it. Things have gotten better since then I hear, but I felt I'd done my bit for king and country and got out at the end of my tour.

I agree. Of course, if I could have done a few things different with what I know...

Faram · Post by **Faram** » 2002-12-09 04:20am

15 months conscripted in the Swedish army’s royal engineers 89-91. It was fun learning how to blow stuff up. (Roads, Airports, Harbours).

But all the shit time learning how to maintain all the junk we had to carry around was a real downer…

All in all I would rather worked and earned some cash instead.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2002-12-09 04:20am

I served in the Corps. from 91 to 97. Durring that time I deployed twice, once as ABC and the other as part of the 31st MEU. Spent the last couple of years as an instructor (weapons and tactics).

Did I enjoy my time in? Absolutly, alot of the things I did, I wouldn't have had the opertunity to do anywhere else. I over all describe it as an honor. I left because I just got married and was having kids. After watching others in my units have difficulties with the deployments and family, I decided to leave and take care of my family as my primary concern.

Sebastin · Post by **Sebastin** » 2002-12-09 07:06am

I served 10 months in the 6´th company/630 signals regiment (electronic warfare) of the glorious german army. Office job. It was like hell. There were days when i Had to work almost an hour. Yes 60 minutes of work in a single day. It was inhuman. And the computer was shit. Only games on it were the fucking card games that come with windows. And at least twice a day the captain would come by play patience on my comp. And he was better than me too. And the coffee machine in our two person office was like ten years old. The personal microwave and fridge were OK though. And my sergeant sold pot at just 8$ the gram which was ok too. And each day started with 90 minutes running without attendance control so I usually got up at 08:30. And for some reason Me and pals always got the really cool jobs in the exercises. We were always tasked with destroying any ammunition left over so it doesn´t have to be rebooked into the supply system. It´s unblievable how much ammo we had left over sometimes. Might have helped that I wrote the assignments. And a friend wrote the munition request. And our captain thought firing signal flares at targets was funny. Or 1200 round bursts trough the MG3. Or letting the recruits build snowmans and driving them down with trucks (the snowmans not the recruits). Or doing a sliding contest with the all terrain trucks on our frozen over landing strip.

Maybe military service wasn´t that bad after all.

Sebastin · Post by **Sebastin** » 2002-12-09 07:24am

On a side note.

Several posters mentioned that they enjoyed their time in germany a lot. Could you expand a bit on this? I´m just curious why.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2002-12-09 08:59am

I wanted to join the army when i was 18 but i was refued because my Uncle was the commander of a terrorist organisation. He was the founder of the Ulster Defence Association.