B1s versus Ent D.

[NecronLord]

Can the B1 rifles fire on full auto

They do so in RotS. Several hundred shots per minute at least (I'll look it up tomorrow)

and how often do they use this.

In ep 1, not so much. More in RotS.

Also how much ammunition does their rifle have.

Probably not more than a hundred shots per reload.

[brianeyci]

You just had to bring up the pole didn't you

I could bring up the off switch if you like. Data is not a battle droid Brian. He was not intended to be any such thing by Dr Soong, and is not all that good at it.

He's better than a B1.

Anyway if the B1's can fire two hundred shots per minute and have enough clips with them they could do reflexive fire (got that one from dragon from the thread where I bitched about Tears of the Sun) basically walking down the hallway without taking cover but standing side by side parallel and continually firing, there's no chance for the goldshirts.

And if they don't (it might be too ammunition consuming) they could hole up in a room and just wait for people to poke their heads out then fire. There is really zero ability for the goldshirts to root out people from a room. They don't have grenades, they aren't trained to fire and sweep across with their Type-III's so they'll probably line up with their sights or fire single shots from the hip and miss terribly. And meanwhile the B1's are shooting back and exploding shrapnel all over the place. And they have to get a dead on hit which might or might not disable a B1 depending where it hits.

I actually think there are not that many trained security personnel on a Galaxy in the pre-Dominion war period. Look at how they ALWAYS use Riker, Picard, Data, Worf. It's possible that phaser training is only for officers and the rest just aren't qualified to shoot a barnyard. A Type-II is not something that you can learn to fire quickly, it would take a lifetime of training to master or computerized targeting. There's no shooting range--and who the hell would want to spend their holodeck rations for phaser training when you could have orgies. So whatever trained SF forces will be sent to intercept the B1's initially will be killed. There might only be a few dozen people on a Galaxy that can fire a Type-II or Type-III with any kind of accuracy, then it's basically giving civilians guns.

Now look at the kill ratio where civilians with guns fight trained soldiers for example at Mogadishu, Somalia. Thousands.

Brian

[brianeyci]

Actually I do remember one time of a phaser clearing out a room in Voyager in the Maquis simulation. Seksa breaks into the mess hall and Neelix and a dozen Starfleet propped up tables and are about to fire at her, but Seska's holding some kind of crossbow phaser and says she can take out all of them in one shot. But that was a different weapon, not sure if it was a compression phaser or just some Maquis weapon. Definitely we've not seen widebeam used to root out a room with a normal Type-II or Type-III, except by Tuvok. And the more I think about the Tuvok example the more I think it's an anomaly. The shots from Tuvok's Type-II didn't look like a widebeam, but looked like six small beams coming out. It could be that the phaser can track communicators, and the possessed Tuvok set his phaser to fire like this.

Brian

[Gandalf]

Actually I do remember one time of a phaser clearing out a room in Voyager in the Maquis simulation. Seksa breaks into the mess hall and Neelix and a dozen Starfleet propped up tables and are about to fire at her, but Seska's holding some kind of crossbow phaser and says she can take out all of them in one shot. But that was a different weapon, not sure if it was a compression phaser or just some Maquis weapon. Definitely we've not seen widebeam used to root out a room with a normal Type-II or Type-III, except by Tuvok. And the more I think about the Tuvok example the more I think it's an anomaly. The shots from Tuvok's Type-II didn't look like a widebeam, but looked like six small beams coming out. It could be that the phaser can track communicators, and the possessed Tuvok set his phaser to fire like this.

Is it possible that that weapon might have been made up for the purposes of that simulation? Either by Tuvok, to make Seska a more overpowering villain? Or by Seska, to make her a more overpowering villain?

[brianeyci]

It was a simulation to train security personnel in case the Maquis attempted to take over the ship.

The weapon is probably accurate.

Brian

[Mith]

I don't think it would get too far. After the crew killed the first two and ending up with four they would just beam them into space, no big deal. Then they would raise shields and get the hell out of their.

[Surlethe]

I don't think it would get too far. After the crew killed the first two and ending up with four they would just beam them into space, no big deal.

How do we know the transporters will properly work on them? And what about when there are eight, then sixteen? Surely you don't think they can simultaneously transport an exponentially growing number of B1s out of the ship.

Then they would raise shields and get the hell out of their.

Get the hell out of their what?

[brianeyci]

Nah, transporters will work unless the B1's have some kind of countermeasures, and I'm inclined to think no given they're supposed to be cannon fodder.

But the thing is, will they think of using transporters, and will they be able to deal with more and more if they arrive. With transporters Federation ships should be impervious to boarding actions but they happen again and again (and there's independent transporter units so don't give me the transporters go offline all the time excuse).

Brian

[Stark]

I dimly recall TNG eps where picking people up from inside the ship was in some way difficult. I'm probably wrong, though... but the large numbers of droids, particularly in separate groups, is going to quickly tax the totally manual 'lock on and beam out' thing. Further, if the later droids have information gathered by the earlier ones, they may try to break the beam, or simply fire at random while the effect takes hold.

[Lord Revan]

Nah, transporters will work unless the B1's have some kind of countermeasures, and I'm inclined to think no given they're supposed to be cannon fodder.

But the thing is, will they think of using transporters, and will they be able to deal with more and more if they arrive. With transporters Federation ships should be impervious to boarding actions but they happen again and again (and there's independent transporter units so don't give me the transporters go offline all the time excuse).

Brian

I seem to recall the being near a transformer did prevent a transporter lock and B1 (especially the Mk.2(aka the CW version)s) are walking transformers (among other things).

[Surlethe]

Nah, transporters will work unless the B1's have some kind of countermeasures, and I'm inclined to think no given they're supposed to be cannon fodder.

I was just thinking that we know the transporters are screwed up with all sorts of natural phenomena, and is it possible the metal (right?) casing on the B1s will screw up transporting?

[Noble Ire]

Nah, transporters will work unless the B1's have some kind of countermeasures, and I'm inclined to think no given they're supposed to be cannon fodder.

I was just thinking that we know the transporters are screwed up with all sorts of natural phenomena, and is it possible the metal (right?) casing on the B1s will screw up transporting?

Probably not. Their plating doesn't seem to be particularly dense or exotic, and transporters have transported fairly large quantities of metal before.

[brianeyci]

Well thinking about it Roga Danar really fucks things up--they should be able to transport him.

So okay, I give up the transporter point .

So everybody agrees with me? It will take a squad of B1's to defeat Enterprise-D security? Lol.

Brian

[Stark]

Hey, bashing aside, I actually think B1s are pretty neat. They're reasonably agile, they can use human-type weapons (although they'd never be able to use a dustbuster phaser ) and you can churn them out like ants. They suck against Jedi, but hey, so do ultra-custom death-spear bots.

[Mith]

The Enterprise would raise shields to prevent anymore from boarding. And if that dosn't work then they just use warp to escape the area. Simple as that.

[Stark]

So your answer to the scenario is to ignore the scenario? They're not being BEAMED aboard, they're just appearing, like in a video game. They can't escape without abandoning ship, which would give a victory to the droids.

Ironically, if they deployed randomly, one or two to the bridge would probably gun everyone down. Only Worf is armed, and he's got a terrible record against 'guys what beam to the bridge and shoot/punch people'.

[Surlethe]

The Enterprise would raise shields to prevent anymore from boarding. And if that dosn't work then they just use warp to escape the area. Simple as that.

You're missing the entire point of the scenario, so this is just a rather blatant red herring. You surely don't think a being which is, for the purposes of this thread, omnipotent will let the Enterprise escape, or let shields stop it from injecting B1s, do you?

[brianeyci]

No only Worf shoots... I think some of them carry derringers, at least Wesley did. Or was that Yesterday's Enterprise?

I would think they should all carry derringers, but good luck aiming those things. No wonder they prefer to tackle.

If the Enterprise-D crew wants to win I still say only one man, Picard. Chances are the B1 won't just randomly shoot the warp core and Picard should be able to regain control of the ship and give the B1's nothing to hit. If the first B1 spawns in the cargo bay, Picard could make his way to the bridge and seal off the decks with B1's on them. Die hard for teh win.

Brian

[Noble Ire]

Ironically, if they deployed randomly, one or two to the bridge would probably gun everyone down. Only Worf is armed, and he's got a terrible record against 'guys what beam to the bridge and shoot/punch people'.

If B1s are as agile as Ferengi privateers, they might actually be able to dodge Worf's phaser shots.

[Mith]

The Enterprise would raise shields to prevent anymore from boarding. And if that dosn't work then they just use warp to escape the area. Simple as that.

You're missing the entire point of the scenario, so this is just a rather blatant red herring. You surely don't think a being which is, for the purposes of this thread, omnipotent will let the Enterprise escape, or let shields stop it from injecting B1s, do you?

I see, my mistake. So their just randomly spawning all over the place until the ship is destroyed? Then I would say that the crew would try to find out how their appearing. Failing that (which they would in this scenerio) the Enterprise would send out a warning to all ofther starfleet ships and then activate Auto-Destruct, with the crew using the escape pods to live). So perhaps 50 or so befroe the cpatain orders an auto-destruct.

[brianeyci]

Actually to give Trek the benefit of the doubt, the fight wouldn't be over once the bridge was taken. Even if the main computer isn't locked down you still need an access code to operate the consoles as TNG Hero Worship says. Even if voice is picard one one delta five or the access code is ten digits it would stop them. And they don't have the benefit of the Ferengi who started transporting everybody to the surface as soon as they took the cargo bay transporters, engineering and the bridge. But the Ferengi thought they could hack the access code if the main computer wasn't locked down so it's probably just a few digits with no "maximum tries".

Brian

[NecronLord]

Look at how they ALWAYS use Riker, Picard, Data, Worf. It's possible that phaser training is only for officers and the rest just aren't qualified to shoot a barnyard.

Well, actually, Guinan seems to be the most proficient marks(wo)man on the ship. She trains at a higher level than Worf... Not that this is much of a surprise, she also keeps the most formidable rifle on the ship under the bar.

But seriously, the average crewer or secruity officer on the 'D wasn't that poor.

There's no shooting range--and who the hell would want to spend their holodeck rations for phaser training when you could have orgies.

Guinan. Obviously.

[Bounty]

There's no shooting range

Yes there is.

[Xess]

There's no shooting range

Yes there is.

That's a holodeck program if I recal.

[Bounty]

There's no shooting range

Yes there is.

That's a holodeck program if I recal.

PICARD'S COM VOICE
Commander Riker, report to the
Phaser Range, please...

Riker touches his communicator.