[jesusfreak]The Borg vrs. the Empire

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-17 12:09am

Trektard

Mith · Post by **Mith** » 2006-03-17 12:09am

Stark wrote:Can you prove any one of those races was anywhere *near* the level of sophistication of the Galactic Empire? The Borg couldn't assimilate 8472, and they're FUCKING ANIMALS. Wow, that's incredible. They're out-computed by Voyagers computer! I imagine you haven't noticed that the ST galaxy was deliberately seeded by aliens, and that the tech of all major races is extraordinarily similar.

Those 'FUCKING ANIMALS' as you put it could crush the Empire, so thats not as easy as you think. And SW tech isn't that much in leap and bounds. Yes Hyperdrive is great, yes those weapons are deadly, but those shileds are not at all helpful. Your claiming that the Empire can counter the Borgs ability to beam through shields, when the only known method to stopping this is constantly remodulating the shields? Same with Borg weapons, they will adapt and cut into the hull of the Empire's ships.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-03-17 12:12am

it doesn't matter how much techobabble you put into your weapons and/or shield if in the end they're just not powerfull enough

and as It was already said the Death Squadron had been in the Hoth asteroid belt for quite some time when that asteroid hit (and it's also possible that said ISD didn't even have shields up at that time).

and Imperial ship can utterly destroy the surface of planet in about 1 h (the Invisible Hand did that and ISDs are more powerfull)

Mith · Post by **Mith** » 2006-03-17 12:13am

Looking up some info, I have found that SW ships are made out of iomite and zersium to make into durasteel. That dosn't seem that exotic.

GrandMasterTerwynn · Post by **GrandMasterTerwynn** » 2006-03-17 12:13am

Mith wrote:
Stark wrote:Can you prove any one of those races was anywhere *near* the level of sophistication of the Galactic Empire? The Borg couldn't assimilate 8472, and they're FUCKING ANIMALS. Wow, that's incredible. They're out-computed by Voyagers computer! I imagine you haven't noticed that the ST galaxy was deliberately seeded by aliens, and that the tech of all major races is extraordinarily similar.
Those 'FUCKING ANIMALS' as you put it could crush the Empire, so thats not as easy as you think. And SW tech isn't that much in leap and bounds. Yes Hyperdrive is great, yes those weapons are deadly, but those shileds are not at all helpful. Your claiming that the Empire can counter the Borgs ability to beam through shields, when the only known method to stopping this is constantly remodulating the shields? Same with Borg weapons, they will adapt and cut into the hull of the Empire's ships.

Christ you're stupid. In the two posts of yours I've read so far, you've trotted out virtually every fallacy posted by Trektards in the early days of the versus debate . . . it's like you've been in suspended animation for the last eight years. Get with the times, troll. Though, more likely than not, I suppose I can look forward to voting "yes" in your more-than-likely inevitable ban poll before the Senate.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-03-17 12:14am

Mith wrote:Those 'FUCKING ANIMALS' as you put it could crush the Empire, so thats not as easy as you think.

Hey, let's repeat ourselves like a broken record! Great idea here!

And SW tech isn't that much in leap and bounds. Yes Hyperdrive is great, yes those weapons are deadly, but those shileds are not at all helpful.

Elaborate, please.

Your claiming that the Empire can counter the Borgs ability to beam through shields, when the only known method to stopping this is constantly remodulating the shields? Same with Borg weapons, they will adapt and cut into the hull of the Empire's ships.

Constantly modulating the shields ... to a different frequency. Imperial shields don't have frequencies, genius.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-17 12:14am

Here you go. Read it. Accept it.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2006-03-17 12:15am

Mith wrote:In Star Trek TNG, The Best of Both Worlds, Part 1 and 2, it is seen that the Enterprise uses its main deflector dish as a weapon to destroy the Borg cube. The effect of it is not statted to have a frequency, even so the borg was able to adapt to it, thanks to their assimulation of Captain Pichard. So should this not show that the Borgs can adapt to such things?

You dumb fucknut. The whole point of the dish weapon was that it was frequency based.

From when the deflector dish plan is hatched:

GEORDI
If we can generate a concentrated burst of energy with that same frequency distribution... I mean a lot more than anything our
phasers or photon torpedos could provide...

RIKER
How do we do that?

WESLEY
The main deflector dish.

GEORDI
It's the only component of the Enterprise designed to channel that much power at controlled frequencies.

And when they're about to fire the thing...

GEORDI
Diverting warp energy to main deflector...

RIKER
Move us to within forty thousand kilometers, match velocity. Commence arming sequence... Increase deflector modulation to upper frequency band...

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-03-17 12:15am

Mith wrote:Looking up some info, I have found that SW ships are made out of iomite and zersium to make into durasteel. That dosn't seem that exotic.

I wonder where he got that idea? (hint: google " iomite zersium "). What's not exotic about made-up materials?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-03-17 12:16am

Mith wrote:Those 'FUCKING ANIMALS' as you put it could crush the Empire, so thats not as easy as you think.

As little as this has to do with your point, they really, really couldn't.

However, you claim they have Magic Assimilation, and they couldn't assimilate a simple, biological entity. That's fucking crap.

Mith wrote:And SW tech isn't that much in leap and bounds. Yes Hyperdrive is great, yes those weapons are deadly, but those shileds are not at all helpful.

Um, what? You keep saying that, but present no numbers or evidence. SW ships can survive a half-hour in combat with similar opponents: a half hour against ships with teraton level weapons.

Mith wrote:Your claiming that the Empire can counter the Borgs ability to beam through shields, when the only known method to stopping this is constantly remodulating the shields?

Transporters are blocked by exotic rocks, electrical fields, active jammers, and probably bad smells. You have to prove they *would* work, not the other way around.

Mith wrote:Same with Borg weapons, they will adapt and cut into the hull of the Empire's ships.

Adapt... to what? The shield? SW shields have no frequency vulnerability - they need to be overcome by brute force. And the Borg aren't in the same league.

Anyway, I see that my point sailed over your head: assimilating ST tech isn't impressive, because it's all very, very similar. Borg technology can be refitted to Federation starships in the field! They couldn't assimilate S8472 because they'd never seen anything like that before, and they're stupid. They've never seen anything like SW tech either: can you prove they'd be able to assimilate it?

But hey, you're a troll who ignores 80% of my post to respond to the part you think you're strongest in. Not only are you wrong, you're breaking the rules.

Mith · Post by **Mith** » 2006-03-17 12:19am

Cos Dashit wrote:Here you go. Read it. Accept it.

My turn

As for the dish, I stand corrected.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-17 12:19am

GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Though, more likely than not, I suppose I can look forward to voting "yes" in your more-than-likely inevitable ban poll before the Senate.

It's been popular recently.

Hasn't this sort of debate been dead for years? Why is it always inevitably brought up again?

I hope I'm not out of line. Lock?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2006-03-17 12:20am

Mith wrote:Those 'FUCKING ANIMALS' as you put it could crush the Empire, so thats not as easy as you think.

Yet a damaged ship was being hunted by the Hirogen. See: Prey.

How could it have been damaged? The Borg never got the modified nanoprobes, and the ones we saw Voyager use destroyed all of their targets.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-03-17 12:20am

Mith wrote:
Cos Dashit wrote:Here you go. Read it. Accept it.
My turn

As for the dish, I stand corrected.

Oh, hey, you linked to Darkstar's site. That will go over really well here, you know; he's one of the recognized authorities in the versus debate scene.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-03-17 12:21am

Don't play mod.

It's amusing that his ONE example is shot down, and he doesn't conceed, or even continue the discussion. He links to Darkstars site! Deary, deary me. So much for our latest chewtoy...

Mith · Post by **Mith** » 2006-03-17 12:24am

What I find amussing is that I never claimed that the borg would win. I just doubt that they would be taken that easly. The Deathstar alone would deal horrible damage to them on a massive scale. Besides, knowing the borg, they would assimulate Darth Vader, and then once he ovecame the implants with the force, he would have the Borg under his command.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-03-17 12:26am

I can't concieve a set of circumstances under which the Borg could threaten the Death Star. Can you?

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-17 12:26am

Mith wrote:
Cos Dashit wrote:Here you go. Read it. Accept it.
My turn

As for the dish, I stand corrected.

According to that site, the advantages are 50-50. If that site is accurate, Empire still wins due to their sheer numerical advantage.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-03-17 12:26am

Cos Dashit wrote:
GrandMasterTerwynn wrote:Though, more likely than not, I suppose I can look forward to voting "yes" in your more-than-likely inevitable ban poll before the Senate.
It's been popular recently.

Hasn't this sort of debate been dead for years? Why is it always inevitably brought up again?

I hope I'm not out of line. Lock?

IIRC it had been dead even before I joined here

as second part because of idiots like the one here (the on who can't even spell the name of one the TNG characters correctly).

when the only known method to stopping this is constantly remodulating the shields? Same with Borg weapons.

that's because UPF (and just about every other ST power) has shields dependent on frequency (to which you adapt to), Imperial shield have no frequecy to adapt to.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-03-17 12:27am

Mith wrote:What I find amussing is that I never claimed that the borg would win. I just doubt that they would be taken that easly.

And even that claim is false, hence the disagreement.

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2006-03-17 12:29am

Cos Dashit wrote:Trektard

Wow that was an outstanding rebuttal, how many hour went into researching it?.

Utah Jak · Post by **Utah Jak** » 2006-03-17 12:30am

Mith wrote:What I find amussing is that I never claimed that the borg would win. I just doubt that they would be taken that easly. The Deathstar alone would deal horrible damage to them on a massive scale. Besides, knowing the borg, they would assimulate Darth Vader, and then once he ovecame the implants with the force, he would have the Borg under his command.

Question: How would the Borg even get into a position where they could attempt to assimilate Vader? Even if they did get close, the Dark Lord of the Sith would have a field day killing them all.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-03-17 12:33am

Surlethe wrote:
Mith wrote:What I find amussing is that I never claimed that the borg would win. I just doubt that they would be taken that easly.
And even that claim is false, hence the disagreement.

that's putting it mildly I'm starting to feel frigging porymaniac for just posting in this thread due consetration of flames here (not that it's atypical here).

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-17 12:35am

Stuart Mackey wrote:
Cos Dashit wrote:Trektard
Wow that was an outstanding rebuttal, how many hour went into researching it?.

I apologize for the "me too" post, I felt that it was appropriate.

Instant Sunrise · Post by **Instant Sunrise** » 2006-03-17 12:37am

Did it ever occur to you that even IF the Borg somehow were able to adapt to the turbolasers, that their shields will not put out enough power to stop a turbolaser. And that it likely would overload the mechanics that have to generate the shields. The borg shields only work if the amplitude/power is similar.

I don't think you understand what frequency is. This helpful image will explain it for you.