Wolf 359 force sub

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-03-19 09:54am

Replace the Borg Cube with a standard Corellian Corvette.

Does it do worse, the same, or better than the Cube?

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-19 01:53pm

Does the Blockade Runner do better in what sense?

OmegaGuy · Post by **OmegaGuy** » 2006-03-19 01:55pm

In defeating the Federation fleet.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-19 02:02pm

In a word: better.

The Star Wars technology that went into a simple Runner is far greater than the Borg Cube, or anything in the Milky Way for that matter. In ANH, Leia's Runner is able to sustain several hits from a Star Destroyer, and we do not know how much longer the chase was before that. If I recall correctly, the only thing on the ship that was damaged was the shield generator (from what C-3PO said). I'm sure that the Cube would not be able to take these hits as well. So in replacing the Cube with the Runner you get: better shielding, better weaponry, faster speeds, but a smaller vessel.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2006-03-19 02:14pm

Unless the vessel is crewed by Borg, it probably will also do things like taking evasive action. Star Wars acceleration is much higher than Star Trek... could they even catch and hit the thing if it tried to hand back, running away and firing turbolasers (which have a much longer range than Phasers and Torps) ?

The Guid · Post by **The Guid** » 2006-03-19 03:10pm

Does it even matter that they will have no knowledge assimilated from Picard? I mean, as I understand it, the SW ships can be taken down from sheer weight of numbers. If I am wrong, I am not here to argue, I just wished to point out the Borg had that advantage so it should not neccessarily be considered as a straight swap of a cube for a corvette.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2006-03-19 03:14pm

The Guid wrote:Does it even matter that they will have no knowledge assimilated from Picard? I mean, as I understand it, the SW ships can be taken down from sheer weight of numbers. If I am wrong, I am not here to argue, I just wished to point out the Borg had that advantage so it should not neccessarily be considered as a straight swap of a cube for a corvette.

The CR90 has the advantage of superior speed, acceleration, and firepower over any single ship in the Wolf 359 fleet. She can simply use all three to execute hit and run tactics to take out a single ship one at a time until the fleet is destroyed. If her sheilds get depleted she can stay out of range until they regenerate.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-19 04:22pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:The CR90 has the advantage of superior speed, acceleration, and firepower over any single ship in the Wolf 359 fleet. She can simply use all three to execute hit and run tactics to take out a single ship one at a time until the fleet is destroyed. If her sheilds get depleted she can stay out of range until they regenerate.

This would be the method I would employ. I doubt that after taking out one ship she would have to run. More like a dozen or so.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2006-03-19 04:29pm

Cos Dashit wrote:
This would be the method I would employ. I doubt that after taking out one ship she would have to run. More like a dozen or so.

Well I'm trying to be conservative, as I don't know any of the weapon yeilds for the CR90 or the shield strength.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-19 04:49pm

Why would the Corvette even bother to engage? (While we're at it why did the Borg but I digress.) Even if for whatever reason they have to come out of lightspeed the CC can use its superiour accelleration to stay away from the Feds until the next jump is calculated.
That being said, ouch. The Feds have shields in the low MT range. Even if the CC's TLs are 1% as powerful as those of a 20 year old glorified troop transport that's 2TT per shot. 39 shots after the start of the engagement the Fed fleet ceases to exist.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-19 04:52pm

Ghetto edit: 2 GT. Not that it makes much of a difference for the Feds, of course.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-03-19 05:19pm

What about the fact that the Corvette can just hyperjump directly into Earth orbit? Hell, the entire Rebel fleet did that in a co-ordinated fashion in ROTJ, and the Falcon by itself could jump to within 1 planetary diameter in ANH. It seems to me that the biggest problem the Borg Cube faced was the fact that it had to run that gauntlet instead of simply bypassing it, because they didn't have any conduits running close enough to Earth (not that it would have helped if they did, because the Feds could just blow up the end of the conduit).

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-19 05:26pm

Maybe the Borg enjoyed running the gauntlet or wanted to. We know BQ went after Picard for an equal, maybe she was just getting to know him.

There's no proof that the ships at Wolf 359 did any appreciable damage to the Borg cube. ST:FC did but that was a lot later, and frankly even the ST:FC didn't make sense... "heavy damage to the outer hull" my ass, did you see any hull breaches on the Borg cube's exterior? I bet if you compared screenshots of the ST:FC cube with other cubes it'd be hard to find any kind of battle damage. Maybe Data was wrong about the heavy damage to the outer hull.

Brian

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-03-19 05:48pm

Cos Dashit wrote:In a word: better.

The Star Wars technology that went into a simple Runner is far greater than the Borg Cube, or anything in the Milky Way for that matter. In ANH, Leia's Runner is able to sustain several hits from a Star Destroyer, and we do not know how much longer the chase was before that. If I recall correctly, the only thing on the ship that was damaged was the shield generator (from what C-3PO said). I'm sure that the Cube would not be able to take these hits as well. So in replacing the Cube with the Runner you get: better shielding, better weaponry, faster speeds, but a smaller vessel.

I think it was the main generator rather than the shield generator they shut down. Though the ISD wasn't trying to destroy the ship, so it very well could have been using LTL's?

And it's been far too long since I've seen it so I may not recall correctly, but I don't actually recall seeing the Runner sustain several hits?

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » 2006-03-19 05:59pm

PayBack wrote:
I think it was the main generator rather than the shield generator they shut down. Though the ISD wasn't trying to destroy the ship, so it very well could have been using LTL's?

C-3PO wrote: Did you hear that? They shut down the main reactor. We'll be destroyed for sure. This is madness.

From here, scroll down to the bottom of the page.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-19 06:04pm

Depends on how you define hit. The Tantive IV DOES take several TL bolts on its shields but we only see one actually affecting the hull.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-19 07:50pm

PayBack wrote:And it's been far too long since I've seen it so I may not recall correctly, but I don't actually recall seeing the Runner sustain several hits?

Batman wrote:Depends on how you define hit. The Tantive IV DOES take several TL bolts on its shields but we only see one actually affecting the hull.

That Tantive IV was hit several hits on the shields, and one time (that we see) on it's hull. When I said several hits, I meant overall.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-03-19 08:20pm

Yeah I figured you meant overall, it's just been so long since I've watched it I only recall the one that hits and does damage... I'm putting off watching it again till I get a projector, but something else always comes up and I have to keep putting off buying one.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-03-19 08:25pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
PayBack wrote:
I think it was the main generator rather than the shield generator they shut down. Though the ISD wasn't trying to destroy the ship, so it very well could have been using LTL's?

C-3PO wrote: Did you hear that? They shut down the main reactor. We'll be destroyed for sure. This is madness.
From here, scroll down to the bottom of the page.

lol well at least I remember some of correctly... and omg look at this...

"Greedo: You can tell that to Jabba. He may only take your ship.
Han Solo: Over my dead body!
Greedo: [He doesn't notice Han going for his gun] That's the idea... I've been looking forward to this for a long time.
Han Solo: Yeah, I'll bet you have.
[blows Greedo away] "

Han shoots first!!

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-19 08:34pm

PayBack wrote:it's just been so long since I've watched it I only recall the one that hits and does damage...

A hit to the shields do damage, they do damage to the overall protection power to the shields. That's why after hits to the shields, they just go away.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-03-19 09:13pm

lol sorry my bad, I thought my meaning was obvious, most of the other forum members seemed reasonably intelligent.

Base Delta Zero · Post by **Base Delta Zero** » 2006-03-19 10:11pm

The corvette would do horrible, horrible things to the fleet, but I don't think it can do much once it gets to Earth. Maybe they could take Starfleet Command hostage or something, but it doesn't have the siege cannons of an ISD, so I don't think a BDZ would be possible, or it would take years at least.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-03-19 10:17pm

The effects of 2 Gigaton+ shots into a planetary ocean can not be overstated

The Silence and I · Post by **The Silence and I** » 2006-03-20 12:13am

MRDOD wrote:Unless the vessel is crewed by Borg, it probably will also do things like taking evasive action. Star Wars acceleration is much higher than Star Trek... could they even catch and hit the thing if it tried to hand back, running away and firing turbolasers (which have a much longer range than Phasers and Torps) ?

I'm not going to say the Federation fleet can or can't defeat the corvette, but where do people get these ideas about what Trek can and can't do at impulse?

Best of Both Worlds Part II requires an impulse acceleration orders of magnitude higher than anything Wars can offer (you try going from Saturn to Mars in 20 minutes without breaking the light barrier--it requires massive acceleration to get the required time dilation), shuttles, when we are given distances, go from point A to point B so quickly that hundreds or thousands of g's are required, despite the events of travel being mundain (i.e. that should not represent maximums). TOS has the Enterprise, often boosted with warp power, traveling great distances at slower than light speeds: In 'The Immunity Syndrome' the Enterprise approaches--slowly--to the giant cell with an acceleration of at least 4500 gravities. They (TOS) routinely maneuver at sublight around areas of space thousands of km accross when battling other ships. Even in TNG, the beginning of the sluggish visuals era, torpedoes occassionally exhibit massive accelerations (Skin of Evil is a good, easily measured example--high orbit to planet surface in ~ one second, torpedo is visible for half that time, meaning it traveled the vast majority of that distance in ~.5 second); and of course BOBW II was in TNG.

I can't give a good answer for the sluggish flying wall we see in DS9 (in universe that is) but I can tell you those ships are capable of massively greater agility.

Wars has embarrasing visuals too, people like to forget them and concentrate on the largest numbers they can get. At least give trek a similar treatment, eh? 'Course, the corvette might be too powerful anyway...

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2006-03-20 04:02am

Maneuver coupled with aggressive tactics and surprise can kill the starfleet vessals without damage. However I doubt the 39 ships could damage the Tantive enough before they were all destroyed even if it was stationary.

After all would 39 CV-88 tankettes from WW2 have any effect on a M1 Abrams, well they might but only though extreme luck (of course the armour on the tankettes is so thin that even the .50 might be over kill and may go straight though without killing anyone). Ok my example is absurd but so is 39 vastly inferior warships taking on a well armed fast diplomatic vessal (with legal millitary hardware even if it dated from the clone wars).