Modding Space Empire IV Gold

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-03-20 04:19am

Nephtys wrote:
Kojiro wrote:How do you know I have a baseship??
Uh. HE CAN SEEEE YOU BECAUSE OF EARTH ALLIANCE!

(psst. U-235. Turn off the alliance with 'em. ;P)

The Vorlons or the Corporate Sector?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-20 04:32am

Uraniun235 wrote:
Nephtys wrote:
Kojiro wrote:How do you know I have a baseship??
Uh. HE CAN SEEEE YOU BECAUSE OF EARTH ALLIANCE!

(psst. U-235. Turn off the alliance with 'em. ;P)
The Vorlons or the Corporate Sector?

*shows off Vorlon fanclub and friends badge.*

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-20 04:41am

Well, Tobor didn't know I had one...but he does now. It's just one way around warp point boarding.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-03-20 05:02am

Nephtys wrote:
Uraniun235 wrote:
Nephtys wrote: Uh. HE CAN SEEEE YOU BECAUSE OF EARTH ALLIANCE!

(psst. U-235. Turn off the alliance with 'em. ;P)
The Vorlons or the Corporate Sector?
*shows off Vorlon fanclub and friends badge.*

You got a badge? I didn't get jack-nothin'. Guess I know who I'm siding with.

Seriously though, I'm not sure how to justify it in RP. President Alshain wants to be buddies (and trading partners) with the Vorlons, and despite his ideological differences with their leader, he wants the same with the Corporate Sector. And even Alshain can see the political nuclear bomb that a policy favoring aliens over other humans would be.

The in-game explanation is that there is a mole in EarthForce Intelligence. The most plausible solution, IMO, is for the Vorlons to stop sharing their sensor data i.e. for them to break the treaty, and then re-form a lesser tready (like T&R) to simulate this.

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » 2006-03-20 05:28am

I thought i gave NImune a rather nice Eulogy, all things considered.

-EDIT-

Oops, probably should have checked before i wrote it. But it just looked so good in my head.

Sorry Neph.

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » 2006-03-20 05:37am

As Valen'tha cruised through space, to the Sana'la spaceport, the decision was reached. Such an attack on a Minbari cruiser squadron, moving to aid the Narn plight would not be tolerated.

Um, Neph

I don't want to rain on your parade, but just where was my planet supposed to go to avoid your fleet??

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-20 05:39am

Tobor wrote:
As Valen'tha cruised through space, to the Sana'la spaceport, the decision was reached. Such an attack on a Minbari cruiser squadron, moving to aid the Narn plight would not be tolerated.
Um, Neph

I don't want to rain on your parade, but just where was my planet supposed to go to avoid your fleet??

The council is like that, you know. Minbari don't take losing ships well. And plus, you were supposed to step out of the way, and give the Narns their planet back, remember?

You will ruuuuueeee this day, Tobor! RUE!

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » 2006-03-20 05:48am

Nephtys wrote: The council is like that, you know. Minbari don't take losing ships well. And plus, you were supposed to step out of the way, and give the Narns their planet back, remember?

You will ruuuuueeee this day, Tobor! RUE!

Does the Minbari council often send fleets on missions through solid interstellar barriers

Thats odd, i don't remember EVER making that promise to anyone.

Come to think of it i know where all 5 of dalton's ships are, and i can destory all 26 of trogs and take a narn planet before the end of next turn. Yet i'm labelled as a power monger for not doing so.

I just can't win !!!!

Do you really think i'm that aggressive (Because i'm really not).

As for the rue bit, you guys will all rue the day that they update the dilgar patch files so they get access to ANY advanced weapon tree or fighter guns after rank 2 or ANY weapon with a range greater than 12. Yeah, then you'll rue me.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-20 05:51am

Tobor wrote:
Nephtys wrote: The council is like that, you know. Minbari don't take losing ships well. And plus, you were supposed to step out of the way, and give the Narns their planet back, remember?

You will ruuuuueeee this day, Tobor! RUE!
Does the Minbari council often send fleets on missions through solid interstellar barriers

Thats odd, i don't remember EVER making that promise to anyone.

Come to think of it i know where all 5 of dalton's ships are, and i can destory all 26 of trogs and take a narn planet before the end of next turn. Yet i'm labelled as a power monger for not doing so. I just can't win !!!!

Do you really think i'm that aggressive (Because i'm really not).

As for the rue bit, you guys will all rue the day that they update the dilgar patch files so they get access to ANY advanced weapon tree or fighter guns after rank 2 or ANY weapon with a range greater than 12. Yeah, then you'll rue me.

We've all held back. Except probably in fighting Guppy. I mean. You didn't roll over Dalton, Trogdor hasn't struck at you or anyone, I sent a small proportion of my fleet, Brian didn't invade the EA, etc.

And it wasn't a promise. As much as a demand. ;P

A lot of the races aren't finished, I know. And some have odd kit, or dead-end weapons. There's only one minbari gun worth using, for example, the others are so bad, they're worse than general race equipment. Brian only has particle beams, etc.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-20 05:55am

Not that it's the same thing but it's related. The vorlons don't have their shields, which are supposed to balance them against the shadows. Left unchecked shadows will beat vorlons every time.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-03-20 06:41am

Do you think yours is the only race unfinished?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-20 06:46am

GuppyShark wrote:Do you think yours is the only race unfinished?

All of the Major B5 races got *most* of their toys. Narn and Minbari are lacking though. Misc. races however, got a lot less. But some of the items are quite nice. The Brakiri slicer for example, is comparable to a midrange shadow weapon. EA's warlock heavy particle cannon are great one-shot weapons.

Comparatively, both elder races are mostly finished. And stack well vs each other.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-20 06:57am

Technically yes. I know factually they're unfinished. Am I complaining? Of course not. As I said, it's not the same thing, but it is a good motivation to wipe the Shadows out before they begin to simply eclipse me. Vorlons have research over Shadows, which means that for a time, I hold superiority in the ancients arena, which was one reason I was game to attack you sooner rather than later. Later on Vorlons lose to Shadows, at least as the game is now.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-03-20 07:13am

If they were both finished, Shadows would have diffusers.

Your entire line of reasoning is based on the assumption that the Vorlons are missing shields and that that's the only element missing from the perfect Shadow/Vorlon game balance.

*goes back to trying to start his Adamant game. He always screws up and ends up controlling half the races.*

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-20 08:40am

Shadows have better guns than Vorlons. They ignore armour and do more damage. They have 1 less range, which is comparatively meaningless when ships are moving as fast as ancients do.

Shadows have better ship layout than Vorlons. My battleships lose 50kt to Bridge, Crew and Lifesupport. My Dreadnoughts 60kt. My PKs lose 400kt. Shadows are completely capable of going this path, they're also capable of putting in a living CPU and getting back all but 10kt. 50kt is a lot of spare room, and the ship that has that 50tk in armour, engines, supply or whatever is going ot have an advantage over the one that doesn't.

Got an issue with either of those statements?

Guppy wrote:If they were both finished, Shadows would have diffusers.

The Components.doc mentions vorlon shields. It doesn't mention diffusers. From that we can prove that vorlon shields are at least intended for implementation. Can you show shadow diffusers are likewise intended?

Even if they are then they're still going to be superfluous. This debate is about Shadows to Vorlons now. They don't need diffusers to win, and adding them, without compensating the vorlons, would skew the balance even further.

Assuming the two races are supposed to be balanced the Vorlons are the ones needing an upgrade. There's a multitude of ways to balance them but since the Shadows advantage at current is so obviously one of firepower, and we know vorlons are supposed to have shields that mitigate firepower (specifically the vorlon shields mitigate the armour negating effect of Shadow weaponry) it's fair to say the shortest way to balance them is to negate the advantage of the superior side.[/i]

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-20 09:19am

First of all for everybody complaining about RP, settle down. If the Minbari in labels the Dilgar as warmongers or vice versa, big deal. As far as I'm concerned, you can RP how you want, the only thing off limits being using the narrator's voice to mislead about crucial in game information like I put mines here, I attack here, etc. So if Nimune shows political opinions or a certain slant or bias towards her people, who cares. Marxis does it all the time.

Did Marxis say he saw a baseship in the RP or in game? No. If the aliens had a ship twice as big as Marxis he'd be shitting his pants about it. Does he know? As far as I'm concerned, no. It's too far away. Do I know? Yes. There's a difference between in-game and out-of-game knowledge. If game mechanics let me know, well then game mechanics can fix it somehow.

If Nimune doesn't like the Dilgars and thinks a certain way, big deal. It's called limited omniscient third person narration. When you hear writing like "the Dilgar would pay for their insolence" it's what's going through Nimune's mind. Also, if Nimune doesn't like you, that doesn't mean Nephtys is out to get you. IC your character can be a racist scumbag like Marxis but that doesn't mean I'm racist.

Also I would like to say, that RPing other people's mains is bad etiquette. Uraniun would absolutely hate it if I started RPing Alshain saying this or doing that. When I let other people RP my mains like in the ST thread or earlier when GuppyShark was RPing Marxis, I sent him the RP to get it vetted. I think that's what caused the confusion... when GuppyShark RPed Marxis, we collaborated on it. Other people's characters, especially their mains, are their business. If it's random Narn X or Minbari Y then it's not so big a deal, but it's annoying when you see anybody else puppeteer your mains unless it's a collaborative effort.

Any kind of RP that uses other people's characters should be collaborative and agreed to by both parties I think. Also the general thing we went by in the ST game was whoever won, got to RP the battle in general (not the other sides' characters). If there was a big battle, it was collaborative through PM's.

<edit>That being said now that it's out... I'm going to RP the planetkiller, it's too good lol.</edit>

Brian

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-03-20 09:53am

Kojiro wrote:The Components.doc mentions vorlon shields. It doesn't mention diffusers. From that we can prove that vorlon shields are at least intended for implementation. Can you show shadow diffusers are likewise intended?

Val wrote:Yeah, there are a few references to Shields, but they have yet to be added in. It is something that will be added in time Maybe in 1.49.34 or so. I also want to add the Shadow Energy Difuser and Tendrils.

From the Official B5 Mod Thread @ Shrapnel Games.

More tomorrow.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-03-20 10:29am

Well I hope they make the vorlon shields something special bacause the Shadows don't need a power boost. Maybe even make the a psychic race.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-03-20 08:13pm

I imagine the younger races are sick and tired of hearing us old fogey Ancients complainin' about the hand fate has dealt us.

If you want to discuss the finer details of the game balance, maybe we should start a new thread - Finishing the SEIV B5 Mod : SD.Net Style or something? It's not like we don't have the skills, we've already tweaked the ST mod to our liking.

Tobor · Post by **Tobor** » 2006-03-20 08:40pm

Since i feel this applies mostly to me, i'm sorry that i jumped in and wrote the death of nimune. It just seemed logical to me that since the ship she was on exploded that it was a given.

I wasn't aware that it was such a faux pas to write for other people. I mean i try to keep any writing, especially for other characters, consistent with what i know of them. I can see how people don't like having their own destiny dictated to them though. I'm sure i'd feel similarly if someone did it to me.

If anyone has an objection i'm happy to delete the post, just let me know what you want done?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-20 09:10pm

Tobor wrote:Since i feel this applies mostly to me, i'm sorry that i jumped in and wrote the death of nimune. It just seemed logical to me that since the ship she was on exploded that it was a given.

I wasn't aware that it was such a faux pas to write for other people. I mean i try to keep any writing, especially for other characters, consistent with what i know of them. I can see how people don't like having their own destiny dictated to them though. I'm sure i'd feel similarly if someone did it to me.

If anyone has an objection i'm happy to delete the post, just let me know what you want done?

NP. I just wrote in the next post what 'happened'. She attempted to scuttle the ship, and her XO shoved her to be picked up by the ranger scoutship. Revenge material is always nice, Tobor.

And lesse. Guppy, editing this mod would be fairly interesting and much more extensive. A lot of races need modified race files (ex, Narn for some reason are 'minmaxed' with low ground combat, while others (ex, Centauri) are not. You'd think Narns would be good at soldiering with their athleticism, wouldn't you?

We'd have to enable a lot of advanced weapons for most sides, such as the EA's improved pulse-lasers, Imp Neutron Beam, and Blast Lasers. Or Vree antimatter weapons, or hell. Half of the Raider's weaponry...

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-03-20 09:25pm

The problem with this mod isn't putting stuff in, it's balancing what's already there. A truly monumental task, especially since the author doesn't appear to have written up a set of guidelines beforehand that would apply to the tech for all different races, but rather did things willy-nilly, creating massive inconsistencies. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that it's a lot harder than you probably think.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-03-20 09:27pm

Tobor sorry I yelled at you, but I was kind of in a bad mood this morning and that above post was more condescending than I meant it to be. So sorry.

We should all be in this to have fun, I'm not going to take it so seriously anymore. Lol.

Except Adamant. I'm out to kill in that

.

Brian

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-03-20 09:58pm

Hey, Uraniun, how long until M6 is done? The galaxy could really use some negotiation right about now...

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-03-20 10:12pm

Another six turns until completion of Mesopotamia Six.