Galactic Civilzations II: 21 Feb

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-03-21 03:22pm

Has anyone noticed little character things like the Good guys (Altarans usually) sometimes attacking for no reason because you happen to be evil?

IN my current game I've experimented with making some profitable evil choices when I usually go goody goody or at worst neutral and my empire and the Altarans kept neck and neck for the #1 and #2 slot in the galaxy.

Suddenly the Altarans declared war on me and began blitzing my space with....fighters.

I was sorely lacking in the militray dept but quickly began cranking out Dagger Class Defenders and turning the tide then whipped out a flotilla of troops ships (i had been hoarding them for an attack on the pathetically weak Torians on the edge of my space so they came in handy now) and commenced a grand tour of Altaran space.

World after world fell to my troops and ships and as I advanced on the Altaran homeworld they began begging for peace (god that felt good, usually I end up on teh short end on these wars) and I of course ignored them and continued on. Got a nasty surprise on the steppingstone world leading to Altara with a large fleet of fighters. Hahha no problem right?

Well the Altarans relied on missiles and I was a beam weapon based power with no research in antimissile systems (as in not even researched missile defense theory) and my small attack fleet was destroyed.

So the Grand offensive goes on hold until I reserach the basics of anti missile theory, pump out upgraded Daggers Mk II with some defensive upgrades and the new Laser III's and off to the front they went.

Fighter fleet destroyed, stepping stone world taken and then finally Altara. Thinking they only had a few shitty 5 and 6 class worlds left I checked to see and they had a few more worlds far out on the rim (I had seen an exodus of Colony ships fleeing to the Rim right before they declared war the sneaky bastards) so I decided to take a breath, assimlate what I had devoured and revamp my military.

Peace was made, tributes demanded and now I eye the Dregin hungrily. But the more I thought about it the more it made no sense for the Altarans to attack since they were in a dangerous position militarilty since their homeworld was damned close to my shipyards and industrial heartlands. They were not hemmed in, we were not competing for much space, yet they launched a completely unprovoked general attack even though we were ranked 1 and 2. I think it has to do with me being evil and them being good which is a cool concept that you can't count on your flank being secure just because you guys are close in terms of power and military.

Also really nice to see how the tripartate system of Missile/mass drivers/beam weapons does really balance out. One for one his missile heavy fighters could defeat my beam weapon defenders lacking missle defense pacakges. Once I upgraded that advantage quickly vanished but it made me really think on how to fight instead of drowning him with numbers like I would in a Civ or MoO game.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-03-21 03:39pm

What I find truly annoying - yet ingenious - about the ethics system is that a good civilization will occasionally fight to the death rather the surrender, even if you give them a peace offer that's favourable to them. I was playing as an evil/human civ against good Altarans, and even when I had taken all of their planets but one and was almost throwing cash at them to make them sign a treaty, they refused; instead they made a wall of ships around their homeworld and died fighting.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-21 06:16pm

Well, I finished my first game- my influence and diplomatic ability just became so overwhelming that the remaining powers even gave up their mining starbases to me for unremarkable throwaway technology. I asked for an alliance with the two remaining powers (Yor and Arcean) and called it a day.

Now I've started another one. Should be more interesting considering I won't have two influence resources within easy grabbing reach

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-03-21 06:45pm

erm my last game I was stuck with a corner of the galaxy, no one could get to me. Then the Yor built enough armored starbases that they actually pulled it off, and we had a little fortification war (since neither of us could really reach the other it became blowing up the otherguy's starbases, just so his fleet would loose combat support. well the yor surrendered to my ally the Alterians, who immediatly declared war on me (with 90% of my fleet off in the former yor space performing police actions on the conquered evil worlds. (btw the alterians were upset that I bombarded the evil nanobots with asteriods and took their capitol when we were both at war with them. (ok the three invasion attempts by my good guy allies failed, so I came in with a FLEET of transports not just one at a time)

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2006-03-21 07:52pm

Well after several attempts finally beat the Seige mission. Once you figure out the trick its fairly easy. Granted the next mission you have to assualt one of the Dread Lord world's that might be a little difficult.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-03-21 08:26pm

I've found that in my early games I was bleeding money, expanding too fast and not making enough tax, and never building warships until it was too late. It was a combination that made the gave really hard, since I was running industry at about 30%, broke, and no warships.

Now that I've got a better handle on expansion and economy, I'm not having nearly as many problems.

I still feel, however, that good is 'easier' and evil is 'harder'. When I'm good, I can sit tight for ages trading and researching, with a middling obsolete fleet, and just mind my own business. When I'm evil, any weakness seems to get jumped on instantly, and I'm in a semi-constant state of war.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-03-22 10:45am

I'm having a really annoying error come up during my game play - something that came up when I played Civ IV and Empires at War as well. Seems that when I'm playing - particularly if a pop up window opens up or a screen change occurs during game play the game automatically minimizes into the windows toolbar. I have to reopen (click on the minimized icon on the toolbar) it to get back to the game. It really sucks because sometimes it happens every few minutes for a clip making gameplay suck ass. This has only recently begun happening and I'm not sure what's causing it. Anyone have any ideas?

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-23 11:11pm

I've started a second game, and in this one I'm doing pretty well- I don't have any Class 19 planets like in the first game, but I do have the most planets, as well as the most galactic resources- 1x research, 1x morale, 1x influence, and 2x economic.

Needless to say, I've got a lot of influence.

The 2x economic originally belonged to the Drengin, but they surrendered to the Drath, so I got there first- the ability of Earth to churn out a Constructor every 2 weeks was instrumental.

The Thalans were lucky enough to have their base planet class double- it's now a Class 30 planet, but it's the only one they have.

Interestingly, the Arceans, with a strong military, were making war on the Thalans and the Korx (the Korx have only two planets, both in the same star cluster), but I just wouldn't have them achieving that sort of dominance with conquest.

I funnelled the occasional piecemeal heavy fighter and money to them, but the Arceans had such overwhelming numbers of ships that it didn't matter- so I built fully upgraded military starbases in both the Korx and Thalan systems, with the intent of handing them over.

The Thalans however made peace with the Arceans, so I decided to hold onto that starbase- with the intent of it assisting my invasion of Thala to take that sweet, juicy Class 30 planet for my own.

I did however hand over the starbase in Korx territory, but it didn't last long- it destroyed three fleets worth of enemy fighters, and then finally succumbed.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-24 02:46am

And I win influence victory, huzzah

There was a random incident where a disgruntled worker on one of my planets somehow managed to shoot the leader of the Arceans during a trade meeting, and the Arceans went to war with me.

They had a lot of fighters arranged in fleets, but I was the only power with Medium Warships- my Quaestor-class warships picked off individual ships with ease for several turns, aas well as destroying a powerful military starbase on my border with no losses.

In fact, I didn't lose any ships except for a few freighters.

Eventually we decided on a peace treaty, though he definitely got the worst of it. It was little more than a pointless skirmish.

Things went calmly from there, the Korx Empire had enough and surrendered to me, after their home planet had been taken by the Drath. I then used my influence dominance to woo that planet over to me.

A minor race, the Vegans, appeared on a previously Class 0 planet that became Class 15- a Transport Mk II loaded with 3000 troops I built took the place and ensured an influence victory in short order. Complete pasting.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-03-24 09:00am

Amazing what will happen when you update your drivers after discovering they're almost 2 years old. The game runs perfectly now. Just won a victory but not sure if it was influence or military. I was running 95% influence in the galaxy as I set upon the last Alataran strongholds. The Altarans met my Excalibur class destroyers with a swarm of fighters and defenders to no avail.

They surrendered to me and suddenly I get a screen with a white flag fluttering over a building that changes to my flag as a fleet of ships slowly rumbles through the sky and fireworks going off. It looks like a military win but considering I was running 95% and there was only one minor race left free in the galaxy I wonder of it became an influence win after the Alterans surrendered.

Trying a game out as the Yor next time I play.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-24 09:21am

That's the Influence win cutscene- you can't get an influence win if you're at war, so it must've kicked in the moment they gave up.

I found out the same thing- I won the influence victory in the last game, but out of curiosity, continued my war against the Drath instead of making peace in a previous save game. Though I control like, 80% of the galaxy influence wise, I couldn't win because there was a war on.

The Drath were reduced to their own star cluster, and then the Thalans called on our alliance for me to help attack the Arceans, which I did. They have craploads of fighters and not much else, so it's easy going.

I'm currently researching large hulls, I hope to humble the Drath and Arceans by making them pretty much fortified, hopeless worlds, with not a chance.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-03-24 09:24am

Vympel wrote: I'm currently researching large hulls, I hope to humble the Drath and Arceans by making them pretty much fortified, hopeless worlds, with not a chance.

Can I say that I was a bit disappointed by what you can do with large hulls. Big whoop, I was able to add one more gun emplacement than on my Medium ships. I was expecting to have ISD like gun emplacements but I guess the game is scaled down in terms of weapons and defenses.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-24 10:15am

Whoops, typo, I meant to say that's the alliance win cutscene. If you and whoever your allied with are the last guys standing, you win.

Can I say that I was a bit disappointed by what you can do with large hulls. Big whoop, I was able to add one more gun emplacement than on my Medium ships. I was expecting to have ISD like gun emplacements but I guess the game is scaled down in terms of weapons and defenses.

Are large hulls the final hull type? Because I too thought I couldn't fit much on, but then again, I haven't reached the end of the tech-tree, where you can cram on many of the top of the line weapons for next to no room at all (if Precursor Rangers are any indicator!).

What I find silly is how they make Laser Mk V look compared to Laser Mk I. Laser Mk V takes up way less space, but it's ridiculously huge and obvious on the model

In two games now I've noticed that the AI seems to be very beam weapon centric. I don't know why that is, but I almost always focus on shields, mass drivers, and missiles.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-03-24 10:28am

Vympel wrote:
Can I say that I was a bit disappointed by what you can do with large hulls. Big whoop, I was able to add one more gun emplacement than on my Medium ships. I was expecting to have ISD like gun emplacements but I guess the game is scaled down in terms of weapons and defenses.
Are large hulls the final hull type? Because I too thought I couldn't fit much on, but then again, I haven't reached the end of the tech-tree, where you can cram on many of the top of the line weapons for next to no room at all (if Precursor Rangers are any indicator!).

The highest I got on the ship tech tree was large hulls so I don't know how it looks in terms of larger ships and smaller weapons (Plasma III for my beam weapons is the highest I've gotten weapons wise)

I have yet to run across a Precursor Ranger for myself and even though I've heard the Dregin or whatever have found precursor Ranger I never fought them in combat. Looking forward to stumbling across one myself.

Vympel wrote:What I find silly is how they make Laser Mk V look compared to Laser Mk I. Laser Mk V takes up way less space, but it's ridiculously huge and obvious on the model

In two games now I've noticed that the AI seems to be very beam weapon centric. I don't know why that is, but I almost always focus on shields, mass drivers, and missiles.

That's odd because I find the exact opposite in my games - usually its missiles and mass drivers for the others. In fact in the last three games I played the Altarans went exclusively missile and the Dregin went exclusively mass driver. I think I have been the only power to go with beam weapons save for some minor power.

Bounty · Post by **Bounty** » 2006-03-24 10:37am

Are large hulls the final hull type?

Yes they are. You can, however, use the "hulls as jewelry" mod and make ships as huge as you want (say, a scout made from four or five "huge" hulls

)

Laser Mk V takes up way less space, but it's ridiculously huge and obvious on the model

...use the size slider perhaps ? You can make a MKV so small it's almost invisible .

In two games now I've noticed that the AI seems to be very beam weapon centric. I don't know why that is, but I almost always focus on shields, mass drivers, and missiles.

Maybe it's race-dependant ? I've found the AI goes for mass drivers/armour time and time again.

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2006-03-24 01:59pm

race dependandt certain ai races go for certain techs

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2006-03-24 02:30pm

Large hulls the final type?

I assume the two of you got to large scale building, which gives the large hull type. There are two more researches you can do and then you get 'Huge' hulls, which are the largest ones. I've gotten massive hulls in nearly every game I've played.

I've maxed both beam techs and missile techs, haven't done so with mass drivers yet. (There's this giant jump in power from the second to last weapon tech for each category to the very last weapon, so be sure to do that research

)

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-24 09:34pm

Stravo wrote: I have yet to run across a Precursor Ranger for myself and even though I've heard the Dregin or whatever have found precursor Ranger I never fought them in combat. Looking forward to stumbling across one myself.

I use custom races, I've never played one of the pre-set. Make your own human race, and set them as "lucky". Watch the Precursor Rangers roll in.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-24 09:35pm

Bounty wrote:
...use the size slider perhaps ? You can make a MKV so small it's almost invisible .

Is that what that slider thingy is for? Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2006-03-24 10:48pm

There are smaller Precursor corvettes as well, but those aren't quite as useful. And in late-game Rangers don't really make much of a difference since by that point you can build ships that are stronger and faster.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-03-24 10:59pm

Shinova wrote:There are smaller Precursor corvettes as well, but those aren't quite as useful. And in late-game Rangers don't really make much of a difference since by that point you can build ships that are stronger and faster.

I haven't gotten to late game yet, I ususally win before then. I think it's time to up the galaxy size, add more than 5 opponents.

Sharpshooter · Post by **Sharpshooter** » 2006-03-30 03:32am

Note: I was reading up on the Bioware Star Wars MMORPG on Gamespot when I spotted one of their promotional banners - a demo has finally been made, and it's going to be released in 9 or so hours. Not to necro, but I know a few people were probably looking for this, so there 'ya go.

Link to the page with the counter and stuff

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-03-30 04:27am

Just got the game and.. it's alright.

Ship design's kinda clunkly, but decent for it's ease. A pity my parts all look ugly for terrans.

Oh, and on turn 3, I found a precursor Ranger on Earth. The rest of the galaxy didn't last long. Great balance. ;P

Master of Cards · Post by **Master of Cards** » 2006-03-30 05:42pm

Nephtys wrote:Just got the game and.. it's alright.

Ship design's kinda clunkly, but decent for it's ease. A pity my parts all look ugly for terrans.

Oh, and on turn 3, I found a precursor Ranger on Earth. The rest of the galaxy didn't last long. Great balance. ;P

that was luck for you

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2006-03-31 12:15pm

I have noticed that both the Torians and Altarains become very belligerant if you are evil. The Drangin only become hostile if you are weak.