Counter to this argument?

[OmegaGuy]

Someone said that since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars, we can't use it to calculate the yield of the Death Star. He says Lucas obviously intended the Death Star to be just as powerful to destroy a planet, not powerful enough to destroy the planet a million times over.

How do I respond to an 'author's intent' argument like this?

[Elheru Aran]

Someone said that since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars, we can't use it to calculate the yield of the Death Star. He says Lucas obviously intended the Death Star to be just as powerful to destroy a planet, not powerful enough to destroy the planet a million times over.

How do I respond to an 'author's intent' argument like this?

By pointing out that it violates Suspension of Disbelief six ways from sunday.

[Isolder74]

Someone said that since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars, we can't use it to calculate the yield of the Death Star. He says Lucas obviously intended the Death Star to be just as powerful to destroy a planet, not powerful enough to destroy the planet a million times over.

How do I respond to an 'author's intent' argument like this?

Well just because Lucas isn't a pyscicist doesn't chage the fact that gravitation binding energy is what holds a planet togather and must be overcome in order for a planet to explode

[Jim Raynor]

Someone said that since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars, we can't use it to calculate the yield of the Death Star. He says Lucas obviously intended the Death Star to be just as powerful to destroy a planet, not powerful enough to destroy the planet a million times over.

How do I respond to an 'author's intent' argument like this?

Where the hell does he even get off saying that Lucas didn't intend for Alderaan's destruction to be the way it turned out? So if Lucas doesn't know the science behind something, then we can't calculate it to be as powerful as it is seen to be, but somehow it can be calculated to be as powerful as he says it is?

Also, ask him if he thinks Anakin just got a few minor burns because Lucas isn't a doctor, or if Luke grew up to be only 5'2 110 lbs. because Lucas isn't a nutritionist.

[Darth Wong]

Someone said that since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars, we can't use it to calculate the yield of the Death Star. He says Lucas obviously intended the Death Star to be just as powerful to destroy a planet, not powerful enough to destroy the planet a million times over.

How do I respond to an 'author's intent' argument like this?

That's absolutely idiotic. He intended it to be powerful enough to destroy a planet with extreme overkill, which is why the planet blew up with such a visually spectacular explosion instead of just turning into a red lavaball. Or was the visual appearance of the explosion a violation of "author's intent" too?

[Anguirus]

since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars

Even before getting into the idiocy that others have noted, it is incumbent upon him to SUPPORT THIS.

I'm not saying he did and I'm not saying he didn't, but how does he personally know that Lucas didn't? Is this the next SuperShadow, or what?

And at any rate, can anyone here even imagine Lucas saying "Gee, I made that explosion TOO BIG! I didn't mean to have my creation so badly outclass other popular sci-fi franchises!" Like hell. Why should he care?

[OmegaGuy]

Someone said that since George Lucas didn't know about gravitational binding energy when he made Star Wars, we can't use it to calculate the yield of the Death Star. He says Lucas obviously intended the Death Star to be just as powerful to destroy a planet, not powerful enough to destroy the planet a million times over.

How do I respond to an 'author's intent' argument like this?

Well just because Lucas isn't a pyscicist doesn't chage the fact that gravitation binding energy is what holds a planet togather and must be overcome in order for a planet to explode

I said that, but they said it's stupid to apply real - world physics to a fictional universe.

[namdoolb]

How many times has Lucas redone the SFX on the OT???

If he wanted to tone down the level of destruction in the Aldeeran scene he would have done it already.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

I said that, but they said it's stupid to apply real - world physics to a fictional universe.

Then they can go fuck themselves if they're not going to actually participate.

[Darth Servo]

What is it with all these "author's intent" morons anyway? Do they really think they can read the creator's mind? Or do they just have their head shoved so far up their asses that they can't see any other way of thinking besides their own?

[Jim Raynor]

Some of them are just too stupid to understand how things are supposed to be done. Debating SW vs. ST and applying real math and science is "stupid" or "taking things too seriously." They probably don't even realize that without an objective basis for comparison, it's all subjective BSing. Others are just plain dishonest, and want to throw out evidence because they can't deal with it any other way.

[Ghost Rider]

CBR?

Either way, moron who doesn't grasp if you don't use an established basis, you can do nothing except bring forth subjective bullshit. Something CBR perfected to a tee, where in they decide victories on the feeling of the day.

[Darth Wong]

Of course it's stupid to apply real-world physics to sci-fi. If somebody has a 50 ton rock fall on his head, there's no reason to believe that it would hurt him, because that would be an application of real-world physics!

Using CBR logic, I declare that you could destroy the Enterprise-E by hitting it with a pen, because the pen is mightier than the sword, and in movies, swords always cut through any other kind of metal except for another sword. Especially if the sword in question is a katana.

[OmegaGuy]

This wasn't CBR, it was another board. Anyway, they said it was okay to use science, but not if it blatantly contradicted the author's intent (as if they knew what the author's intent actually was)

[Ghost Rider]

This wasn't CBR, it was another board. Anyway, they said it was okay to use science, but not if it blatantly contradicted the author's intent (as if they knew what the author's intent actually was)

Same thing CBR blithers. Same answer as well, "We pick who we like best and they are the winnahs!!!!!". Same pointless circular bullshit.

[Lord Revan]

a good argument is point out that Curtis Saxton was hired to write AOTC:ICS and ROTS:ICS so the Authors intent is clearly on our side (George Lucas is after all at the head of Lucasfilm limited and it's they who deside who writes what under the SW name).

[Lost Soal]

Subjective reply in very easy words.

Death Star shoot planet. Planet go boom.
Planet bigger and stronger than ship.
Therefore.
Death Star shoot ship. Ship go boom.

If you can reduce that entire argument to words or two syllables or less, then it might get through to the thicketts as well.

[chitoryu12]

I also doubt that Gene Roddenberry was a certified genius who went to Harvard and got a degree in quantum physics before he made Star Trek. According to this guy, we can't calculate the power of a Star Trek ship.

[l33telboi]

Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."

[WyrdNyrd]

And your point would be?

Whether or not you can reasonably postulate a lack of specific knowledge on the part of the author, it still doesn't mean jack shit, because author's intent, as far as these arguments go, means jack shit!

The reason for this is:

1. We're trying to have an argument that is winnable, for one side or the other.
2. Invoking Author's Intent makes the argument subjective
3. Subjective arguments are not winnable, thus contradiciting (1).

If you remain unconvinced about the merits of this line of thinking, see the second entry in this thread, where I describe the reasoning and rationale in tedious detail.

[Wyrm]

Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."

I can imagine a potential follow-up question to GL with an answer:

"Okay, how much energy should that big-ass beam crank out?"

"Enough energy to blow up a planet in a spectacular way, I suppose. Look, I don't care about the calcs. They have the tech to make it happen, and we'll let the Imperial engineers work out the heavy math to do it."

The author's intent was to make Alderaan go boom. That's what was filmed, and that's what SoD requires. If you want to be persnickety about it, then the author's intent that Alderaan go boom is an implicit specification of the beam energy needed to accomplish the task. So there.

[Darth Wong]

Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."

Thanks for reiterating the point that has already been attacked and refuted several times, moron.

[NecronLord]

Let's not forget that either Lucas, or possibly just Alan Dean Foster and the SFX department, intended for Alderann to be shielded, adding further weight to the idea that the author's intent was indeed for the Death Star to be as collossally poweerful as the calcs suggest it is.

[Cykeisme]

This thread is essentially a case study in the mental incompetence and downright stupidy of people, in this case demonstrated through the inability to understand a concept as simple as the Suspension of Disbelief analytical approach.

[Sonnenburg]

Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."

I can't wait until Mace Windu shows up in the television series. After all, I don't think Lucas actually did the calculations of what would happen when he was thrown out that window, so there's no reason to assume he's dead at all. Lucas just did it because he knew it'd look cool and show the awesome power of the Emperor.