Anti-Biblical message of "Batman Begins"

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-03-22 11:13am

Has anyone noticed before that the villainous "League of Shadows" in the movie Batman Begins are basically trying to do to Gotham City exactly what the Biblical God did to Sodom and Gomorrah? And that there is absolutely no question in the average viewer's mind that this action is evil?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-22 11:18am

But Ra's al Ghul didn't create the inhabitants of Gotham City, therefore he doesn't have absolute sovereignty over them.

A Christian is, at the most basic level, the same as anyone who argues for the exploitation of androids no matter how advanced they are.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2006-03-22 11:23am

Darth Raptor wrote: A Christian is, at the most basic level, the same as anyone who argues for the exploitation of androids no matter how advanced they are.

Too bad that unlike the Cylons in nBSG we can't nuke God out of existence.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-22 11:28am

Actually, if you take the Bible literally God is nowhere near omnipotent or invulnerable, and he has a canonical fear of humankind and our potential to surpass Him. Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, anyone?

I always love pointing that out.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2006-03-22 12:19pm

You could consider it a eugenics movement or vast social engineering project which the League has kept in place for hundreds, if not thousands of years to better control society. The Christian God is certainly similar, only now he leaves it to those that worship him while he goes off to do whatever it is deities do when bored.

spikenigma · Post by **spikenigma** » 2006-03-22 01:25pm

Darth Raptor wrote: A Christian is, at the most basic level, the same as anyone who argues for the exploitation and/or abuse of androids no matter how advanced they are.

(sorry for the addition)

that's actually quite profound

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-03-22 01:27pm

Darth Raptor wrote:Actually, if you take the Bible literally God is nowhere near omnipotent or invulnerable, and he has a canonical fear of humankind and our potential to surpass Him. Garden of Eden, Tower of Babel, anyone?

I always love pointing that out.

And don't forget, God can't do nothing about chariots made of iron.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-03-22 01:47pm

Do 30 ton tanks count as "iron chariots"?

CorSec · Post by **CorSec** » 2006-03-22 01:56pm

Darth Wong wrote:Has anyone noticed before that the villainous "League of Shadows" in the movie Batman Begins are basically trying to do to Gotham City exactly what the Biblical God did to Sodom and Gomorrah? And that there is absolutely no question in the average viewer's mind that this action is evil?

YOUR ANALOGY FAILS, LOL BECAUSE R'AS AL GHUL WASN'T COMPASOINIT ENOUGH TO LET THE CITY LIVE BECAUSE OF THE VIRTUe OF ONE MAN.

(Sorry, Mike. Had to be done. All tongue in cheek, of course.)

Plekhanov · Post by **Plekhanov** » 2006-03-22 03:22pm

CorSec wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:Has anyone noticed before that the villainous "League of Shadows" in the movie Batman Begins are basically trying to do to Gotham City exactly what the Biblical God did to Sodom and Gomorrah? And that there is absolutely no question in the average viewer's mind that this action is evil?
YOUR ANALOGY FAILS, LOL BECAUSE R'AS AL GHUL WASN'T COMPASOINIT ENOUGH TO LET THE CITY LIVE BECAUSE OF THE VIRTUe OF ONE MAN.

(Sorry, Mike. Had to be done. All tongue in cheek, of course.)

I though the final figure Abraham & god came up with after their haggling was 10.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-22 04:50pm

Oh frabjous day. Now I'm being drawn into the religious vs debate, too.

It's been a while since I last watched 'Begins' and I'm not sure I ever completely read the bible, but didn't God destroy S&G because he decided they deserved to die, while Ra's more or less thought Gotham just couldn't be saved?
God making a Batman villain look good. Can't say I'm surprised.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-03-22 04:55pm

No, Al'Gul was basically doing the same thing as Yahwe did in S&G. The only real difference was that he didn't give them a "last chance" like god did in the fable.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-22 04:59pm

That's pretty much how it went in Genesis too. God put up with all the eval buttsecks in the Twin Cities for some time. After a while He got fed up and "gave them over to a reprobate mind". Then he sent those queerbait angels into Soddom to see if the city could be saved, and you know how that went...

The original plan of rubbing Gotham out via economic ruin's not all that analogous, because people would have just left the city. Crane's psychoactive toxin is however.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-03-22 05:02pm

I actually got that impression first viewing, but forgot about it.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-03-22 05:20pm

Darth Raptor wrote:That's pretty much how it went in Genesis too. God put up with all the eval buttsecks in the Twin Cities for some time. After a while He got fed up and "gave them over to a reprobate mind". Then he sent those queerbait angels into Soddom to see if the city could be saved, and you know how that went...

The original plan of rubbing Gotham out via economic ruin's not all that analogous, because people would have just left the city. Crane's psychoactive toxin is however.

Yeah, but Al'Gul never gave them that chance, or if he did it was never mentioned.

Lord Rog · Post by **Lord Rog** » 2006-03-22 05:36pm

Ah but "It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command"

as your sig would say.

Unfortunately so many people that consider themselves Christian don't read the Bible properly and deny any mention made of Yaweh's more monstrous acts as being an attack on their religion. Therefore they don't even need to invent justifications like Boyd did (although the above is more a statement of complicity than a justification).

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2006-03-22 05:52pm

Actually, God actively destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, whereas Al'Gul just releases something into the air that will cause gothamites to kill each other. Al'Gul's plan gets people to kill each other, so he never actively kills anybody.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-03-22 05:56pm

Zero132132 wrote:Actually, God actively destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, whereas Al'Gul just releases something into the air that will cause gothamites to kill each other. Al'Gul's plan gets people to kill each other, so he never actively kills anybody.

You ARE aware that that's just semantics. By that reasoning Hitler never killed anybody.

Zero · Post by **Zero** » 2006-03-22 06:05pm

Batman wrote:
Zero132132 wrote:Actually, God actively destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, whereas Al'Gul just releases something into the air that will cause gothamites to kill each other. Al'Gul's plan gets people to kill each other, so he never actively kills anybody.
You ARE aware that that's just semantics. By that reasoning Hitler never killed anybody.

Not everyone reacted to the hallucinagen the same way. The desire to murder and kill is caused by the paranoia and rage of the citizens. I thought that was why old Al'Gul liked the plan so much. Then again I may be completely wrong.

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-03-22 06:12pm

Believe it or not, recent research seems to show that the Biblical account of Sodom and Gommorah implies a lack of hospitality to strangers, NOT homosexuality as the sin that caused their destruction. The actual semantics of the text put the emphasis on the Sodomites refusal to assist strangers and the poor, rather than their homosexuality. To a reasonable Christian, this shouldn't really matter anyway, as Sodom and Gommorah can be dismissed as a parable, and is really not a core part of the Bible.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2006-03-22 06:25pm

What the hell kind of morality parable has a supposedly "good" God raining nuclear death upon entire cities, annihilating all inhabitants- including small children who were not old enough to be inhospitable? What kind of message is it supposed to send when the only "good" person in Soddom was willing to surrender his daughters to a rape mob? That you can get flash-fried for looking in the wrong direction?

Unless the message is "genocide, sex slavery and murder are acceptable responses to being insulted".

The Bible needs to be on bookstore shelves right next to Mein Kampf.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2006-03-22 08:15pm

Darth Raptor wrote:
The Bible needs to be on bookstore shelves right next to Mein Kampf.

Ahem. Mien Kampf is nonfiction.

wolveraptor · Post by **wolveraptor** » 2006-03-22 08:23pm

Well to be fair, the town's men did want to rape the angel, meaning they were pretty much assholes. One wonders why God didn't magically transport the children and women away into some good Israelite town, adding them to Jews population.

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2006-03-22 09:16pm

Darth Raptor, Grimm's Fairy Tales were pretty violent, but tended to have a moral to them If Genesis is simply a book of parables (save Abraham), then why can't it be classed like Grimm's Fairy Tales?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-03-22 09:26pm

CarsonPalmer wrote:Darth Raptor, Grimm's Fairy Tales were pretty violent, but tended to have a moral to them If Genesis is simply a book of parables (save Abraham), then why can't it be classed like Grimm's Fairy Tales?

Because in Grimm's Fairy Tales, the Big Bad Wolf is not portrayed as the fucking hero of the story. The Old Testament is not a collection of morality tales; it is a collection of immorality tales.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Anti-Biblical message of "Batman Begins"

Anti-Biblical message of "Batman Begins"

Re: Anti-Biblical message of "Batman Begins"

Re: Anti-Biblical message of "Batman Begins"