a) Mob “give us the angels so we can fuck them”
Lot “Why don’t I give you my teenage daughters, who’ve never been fucked by a man before and you can do whatever you like to them instead”
Or
b) Mob “give us the angels so we can talk to them and get to know them better”
Lot “Why don’t I give you my teenage daughters, who’ve never been fucked by a man before and you can do whatever you like to them instead”
The latter interpretation makes no sense whatsoever, so unless you can actually come up with either some evidence or sound reasoning why we should interpret the text (no matter how poorly preserved) in that manner I’m gonna stick to the much more sensible former interpretation.
To me, yes, but we may noy have a complete understanding of how the ancient Hebrews addressed things.
Don't you have a bit of trouble with a whole city suddenely wanting to bend over and screw a couple of visitors? Is there anything historic in any culture of anything similar?
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
a) Mob “give us the angels so we can fuck them”
Lot “Why don’t I give you my teenage daughters, who’ve never been fucked by a man before and you can do whatever you like to them instead”
Or
b) Mob “give us the angels so we can talk to them and get to know them better”
Lot “Why don’t I give you my teenage daughters, who’ve never been fucked by a man before and you can do whatever you like to them instead”
The latter interpretation makes no sense whatsoever, so unless you can actually come up with either some evidence or sound reasoning why we should interpret the text (no matter how poorly preserved) in that manner I’m gonna stick to the much more sensible former interpretation.
To me, yes, but we may noy have a complete understanding of how the ancient Hebrews addressed things.
Don't you have a bit of trouble with a whole city suddenely wanting to bend over and screw a couple of visitors? Is there anything historic in any culture of anything similar?
The visitors were angels who are after all superhuman beings depicted in the bible performing all manner of implausible feats, why shouldn't they be sexually irresistible to the sinful inhabitants of Sodom?
Plekhanov wrote:So what exactly did they want to do to the angels & why did Lot offer his daughters to the mob in exchange for sparing the angels declaring that they 'had not known men'? Why was their status as virgins of any relevance if the mob didn't have something sexual in mind for the angels?
It's a mystery for the ages. How about that for an answer? Lot is supposed to be the one righteous man in all of Sodom and Gamorrah, but here he is offering up his daughters to his neighbors. It doesn't seem very righteous at all, does it? Heck, it looks like the total opposite of righteous to the modern reader!
And what's more, it gets more disgusting a little later! After Lot's wife gets turned into a pillar of salt, his daughters - thinking they're the last people on earth, get daddy drunk and have sex with him. According the the book, they even bear children from it!
If you want to try and make sense of it, you're welcome to try. For all the good it'll do we could use the Chewbacca defense.
If it doesn't make sense, you must acquit.
Keep in mind that in ancient cultures, it was actually customary to offer up your daughters for weary travellers when they stayed at your home. Lot was actually trying to protect the angels by offering his daughters up in their place...but thats all I remember reading about it, thus this is all I know.
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." ~ Deathscythe on thewiire.com
Plekhanov wrote:The visitors were angels who are after all superhuman beings depicted in the bible performing all manner of implausible feats, why shouldn't they be sexually irresistible to the sinful inhabitants of Sodom?
So the situation was created so that the Mob would be unable to resist the Angels by God?
"He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."
Thomas Paine
"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."
Ecclesiastes 9:5 (KJV)
Plekhanov wrote:The visitors were angels who are after all superhuman beings depicted in the bible performing all manner of implausible feats, why shouldn't they be sexually irresistible to the sinful inhabitants of Sodom?
So the situation was created so that the Mob would be unable to resist the Angels by God?
Of course, if the Angels hadn't shown up in the first place, then the mob wouldn't have congregated and pissed God off so he would destroy the city.
Mayabird is my girlfriend
Justice League:BotM:MM:SDnet City Watch:Cybertron's Finest "Well then, science is bullshit. "
-revprez, with yet another brilliant rebuttal.
One of the fascinating and under-reported aspects of the Sodom story is that God is clearly not omniscient. He says himself that he needs to go visit Sodom (via proxy, through his angels) in order to see if the place is as bad as he's been led to believe. This would be totally unnecessary for an omniscient being, so either he's not omniscient or he's lying to Abraham.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
Why the fuck would he use the exact same word to mean two completely different things 3 verses apart from each other when doing so renders the whole passage incomprehensible?
… so unless you can actually come up with either some evidence or sound reasoning why we should interpret the text (no matter how poorly preserved) in that manner I’m gonna stick to the much more sensible former interpretation.
1) to know
a) (Qal)
1) to know
a) to know, learn to know
b) to perceive
c) to perceive and see, find out and discern
d) to discriminate, distinguish
e) to know by experience
f) to recognise, admit, acknowledge, confess
g) to consider
2) to know, be acquainted with
3) to know (a person carnally)
4) to know how, be skilful in
5) to have knowledge, be wise
One word. Many definitions.
Sodom had just been through a war. The people there weren’t readily trusting of strangers. The mob approached Lot’s house with the desire to learn who they were, determine their reason for being in the city.
Lot is an idiot. He can’t reason his way out of a wet paper bag. What does he do? He offers them the only thing of value in his house. It was a stupid offer and the mob rebuffed him soundly for it.
Maybe they wanted to have another go at the pretty strangers before settling for Lot's daughter.
The visitors were angels who are after all superhuman beings depicted in the bible performing all manner of implausible feats, why shouldn't they be sexually irresistible to the sinful inhabitants of Sodom?
