Scientists are discovering the soul?

[Max]

I found this at another board, but the link that they pulled this from doesn't seem to work for me. I was hoping someone here could explain it a little more to me, whether it makes sense or if this person is pulling shit out of the air...quantum physics and probability are a little over my head.

Think of a sunset… As soon as you see this image there is a binary code of photons coding for that experience in your brain. Think of a dark room with the flame of a candle.

Now if I were able to look inside your brain, there would be no candle there - just a binary code of photons flickering on and off. The question is, where was that image before I asked you to think of it? The point I am trying to make is that when I ask you to envisage a sunset or a candle flame, before you remember it that information is not in your brain. The information shows up in your brain as soon as you have the intention to remember. So where was it before that? It existed as potential in consciousness but it wasn’t in your brain.

My memories therefore are not in my brain. This is a very important point because the reductionist model says our memories are in our brains. Why does it say that? Because when the brain is damaged people have damaged memories - whether through Alzheimer’s disease, or a comatose state, or through drunkenness.

But the argument is fallacious: it’s the same thing as saying my radio set is damaged and no music is coming out, therefore the music must be manufactured by my radio. The radio doesn’t manufacture the music; it only actualises the music. My television set doesn’t manufacture all those people that I see inside the box; it only actualises them from somewhere else. So, too, your brain is not the source of your thoughts.

Your brain is a quantum instrument that causes the collapse of wave functions that exist as possibilities before you actualise them as space-time events. So your brain takes possibilities and actualises them into space-time events. It’s a quantum instrument that converts possibility into actuality. It takes the unmanifest and makes it manifest, both in imagination and also as sensory experience.

What is a space-time event? It is a frozen moment of intention
All perception is the collapse of wave functions in a sea of possibilities constantly transforming and moving, and my perception freezes that external reality, but even by the time I have perceived it it has moved on. It’s just a moving phenomenon in the sea of possibilities.

So what is in this world of discontinuity?
All things exist as a sea of infinite possibilities and all exist as pure potential. Potential has no beginning and no ending. It exists as potential.

Science says, first there is matter, then there is energy and then there is information. What is information? Information is a sea of possibilities waiting to be asked questions. That’s what information is. Is the universe wave-like? Is the universe particle-like? Well, it depends on your question. If you do an experiment that is wave-like then it’s wave-like. If you do an experiment that is particle-like then it’s particle-like, and it’s never both simultaneously. That’s the essence of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle.

Whether it is particle-like or wave-like depends on the question. Before you ask the question - what is it like, particle-like or wave-like? - it exists as both potentially.

It is your question that compels the universe to make a choice. Before you ask the question the universe hasn’t made a choice. As soon as you make the choice the universe is compelled to respond. So at the most fundamental levels of nature, the universe is a sea of infinite possibilities that are compelled to make choices for space-time events once you ask the question. The universe is a big question mark before it becomes actual.

An interesting phenomenon that scientists are now totally comfortable with is a phenomenon called ‘non-local correlation’. Non-local correlation was something that was accidentally described by Einstein in his attempt to actually invalidate quantum physics.


Einstein was very uncomfortable with certain aspects of quantum physics. One of them was non-local correlation. Another was Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle. In fact, when Heisenberg went to explain the uncertainty principle to Einstein, he made that famous comment, "God doesn’t play dice with the universe," because our mechanistic laws say if we know enough about the universe we will be able to predict everything.

In a nutshell, non-local correlation works like this:
if you have two sub-atomic particles, A and B, and they collide, they exchange a little energy and information, so A becomes A1 and B becomes B1: they are slightly changed, just like when you and I collide we are slightly changed, we exchange information and energy also, so you are not the same person quite and I am not the same person quite. At the most fundamental levels, when sub-atomic particles collide they exchange energy and information; then let’s say A1 starts to move to one end of the universe and B1 moves to the other end of the universe, but for all of eternity they remain instantly correlated.

Instantly correlated means that if I know what A1 is doing I will be able to tell you what B1 is doing. If I know where A1 is I will be able to tell you where B1 is. That knowing a quality of behaviour of A1 I will be able to tell you a quality of behaviour of B1.

Now where Einstein differed was that he said it is just a mathematical correlation and that there is no mystery to this. Furthermore, the correlation is unmediated, which means there is no mediation of energy from here to here that tells me that by knowing one I can know what the other is doing. So, it is unmediated and it is unmitigated - unmitigated means that there is no diminution of the robustness of the correlation - with distance in space.

Normally, when you employ energy signals or electromagnetic signals the Law of Inverse Proportions comes into play - so the further you have two objects that are correlated with each other (like gravity for example), the weaker the signal gets, and it gets weaker in inverse proportion to the square root of the distance. But unmitigated means there is no diminution in the robustness of the correlation. It remains the same no matter how far you go.

Distance in Space is also Distance in Time
When I look at the night sky I might be seeing a star that is fifteen million light years away, which means that I am looking at something that existed fifteen million years ago. If it blew itself out five million years ago I won’t know that for another five million years because when I am looking at the night sky I am looking at the past. Distance in space is also distance in time; but unmitigated means the robustness of the correlation moves outside the boundaries of space-time: it is instant. So the third property of the correlation is that it is instantaneous.

Einstein believed this was only a mathematical concept, but then John Bell came along and proved it beyond doubt. It is now an established fact that there is a fundamental level in nature where everything is instantly correlated with everything else. This gives us mathematical and experimental proof of what we could call omniscience or omnipresence or omnipotence - where everything is correlated, everything is organised, everything is connected instantly with everything else.

I’ll tell you why Einstein was uncomfortable with this: it was because he was thinking in terms of all phenomena existing in space-time, but what this is describing is a domain that is beyond space-time and causality, outside the domains of space-time. Now scientists totally acknowledge that you cannot explain biology without invoking non-local correlation. How does the human body think thoughts, play a piano, kill germs, remove toxins and gestate a baby all at the same time? And whilst it’s doing all that it correlates every activity with every other activity, all instantaneously without mediating the activity of your liver cell with your kidney cell, with the manufacture of the new baby.

Not only that, but your body is tracking the movement of stars whilst it’s doing this because the biological rhythms that you call your body are actually the rhythms of the ecosystem and the universe. Everything is correlated with everything else, and it’s not only correlated with everything else: it’s instantly correlated. There is no time, there’s no energy involved because energy is in space-time.

It’s without the use of time signals or energy signals: it’s instantaneous. It is the basis of what we call synchronicity. Non-local correlations are the most impressive and most dominant aspect of nature’s activity. It is totally understood mathematically; it is totally understood in terms of quantum physics - it is totally understood experimentally.

++http://www.quantumbiocommunication.com/ ... -soul.html


Part 2.


In the first part of this article we explained synchronicity and that non-local correlations are the most impressive and most dominant aspect of nature’s activity. In the second part we will introduce you to the concepts of uncertainty and the observer effect.

What Is Uncertainty?
Another property of discontinuity is a proliferation of uncertainty. The deeper you go into the discontinuity the more uncertain it becomes. Let’s look at Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle: all phenomena are simultaneously wave-like and particle-like until you do the experiment, and then they are one or the other. If you measure one, then you preclude yourself from knowing what the other is.

So if I measure the position then I preclude myself from knowing the momentum. If I know it as a particle then I cannot know it as a wave at the same time. It has nothing to do with the limitations of our experimental methodologies; it has to do with the laws of nature. It doesn’t behave particle-like or wave-like until I ask the question.

Furthermore, when I start to do calculations at this level of nature I have to use irrational numbers. An irrational number is a number that you cannot conceptualise. So infinity is an irrational number: you can’t conceptualise it. Pi is an irrational number because it has infinite decimal places. The square root of -31 is an irrational number. I can’t imagine what that would be but I can do calculations. In order to calculate fundamental behaviours of the universe, I have to use irrational numbers that I cannot conceptualise.

And even though the margin of error is very little, the margin of the error multiplies when I extrapolate from fundamental levels of behaviour to macroscopic levels of behaviour. So, in fact, the more I examine the levels of existence at the most fundamental levels, they become more and more and more uncertain. It’s like God says to me, "At this point in time I am not going to reveal my secrets to you. I am going to allow you to come this far but from now on you have got to trust me, and I am not going to tell you any more."

Uncertainty is actually the reason for creativity at this level, which is the fourth property of the quantum domain. It is creative. And it’s creative because of the proliferation of uncertainty. If you are certain about everything, where is the room for creativity? Creativity starts with uncertainty. If I know everything then that’s the end of the story, but if I don’t know then there is room for creativity, and the more I don’t know the more room there is for creativity. So at this level nature’s creativity is based on the proliferation of uncertainty. This creativity is quantum in character.

What does that mean? It has something to do with healing because all healing is biological creativity. All healing is biological creativity. Nature is constantly creating.

Just Look Outside: All this Creation is Happening Right Now
It didn’t happen once upon a time; it is happening at this moment. At quantum levels photons are collapsing, wave functions are precipitating as space-time events, and our brains are quantum instruments that are translating the collapse of wave functions into … a tree. But that tree is actually being born and is dying at the speed of light right now. God is creating it. If you don’t believe in God then a causal non-local quantum mechanical interrelated field is creating it!

But some mystery is creating it and it’s doing it right now. The whole of creation is happening right now. Not only is it happening right now but some emergent property will emerge which is totally unpredictable as that creativity continues, because creativity repeats itself, the patterns of collapse are repeated and then suddenly there are quantum jumps and those quantum jumps are called emergent properties. That means they didn’t exist before and you didn’t know what they were going to be before they existed.

Let’s Look at Biological Evolution
We see it is punctuated by these discontinuities. Discontinuities in quantum physics are when a sub-atomic particle moves from one place to another without going through the space in between. So now it’s here and then it’s there and it didn’t go through here or there. And also it’s instantaneous: as soon as it disappears here it shows up there without any time-lag.

If you have ever watched the American TV programme called Star Trek, you know that when Captain Kirk says, "Beam me up, Scottie," Scottie presses a button and Kirk disappears from here and shows up in another galaxy - and there is no time-lag. That’s called a quantum leap in physics. It’s happening all the time.


At the beginning of this article, I had you create quantum leaps in imagination. I asked you to think of a sunset, think of a candle in a dark room - those were quantum leaps in your imagination. Patterns of photons that were behaving in certain ways switched to behaving in other ways with no time-lag. Like that, nature ‘imagines’ through quantum leaps. So the transition from amphibians to birds is a quantum leap in nature’s imagination.

Classical Darwinian evolution would say an amphibian acquired feathers because it wanted to escape predators by flying - survival of the fittest - but actually acquiring feathers is a biological disadvantage. It makes the creature more cumbersome. It also has to acquire a new metabolic rate because the metabolic rate of a flying creature is completely different from the metabolic rate of an amphibian.

It requires a new musculoskeletal system; it requires, of course, wings; it requires navigational skills. Everything about an amphibian is different from everything about a bird. So that transition has to be simultaneous; the metabolic rate, the feathers, the musculoskeletal system: all of that transition has to be simultaneous. Each of these has to be non-locally correlated with the other and it has to be sudden, otherwise the bird will fall prey to the predator. It requires the simultaneity of non-local correlated events. Otherwise there is no bird in evolution.

Similarly, the transition from primates to human beings: here we are sitting as human beings and there are chimpanzees out there who share 99.999% of the same DNA. But as far as we know, chimpanzees don’t ask themselves who God is and whether they have a soul, or what the nature of existence is. That took a quantum leap. The creativity of nature is quantum.

The Final Point is the Observer Effect
The observer effect means that unless and until the moment of observation the universe exists only as a possibility. Until you observe it, in other words without a conscious sentient being, the universe doesn’t exist. This is John Wheeler’s contribution.

Wheeler was a student of Einstein; he is now 93 years old. He is one of the greatest giants of physics of the last century. He says that the universe remains ambiguous, a ceaselessly flowing quantum soup, until a conscious being observes it. The conscious being could be a honeybee or a chameleon, or it could be you. That without consciousness the universe does not manufacture itself into physical form.

The points I have discussed above are the qualities of your soul. Why? Because your soul is not a thing; it is a field of infinite possibilities. Your soul is omniscient, your soul proliferates and embraces uncertainty in order to create, and your soul is co-creating with God. God remains unmanifest unless you participate.

What is the definition of a soul? The soul is the observer that interprets and makes choices. If you want to expand it a little bit, say it interprets through memory and makes choices through desire. The five soul attributes are:

1. Field of infinite possibilities
2. Omniscient (or correlates non-locally)
3. Embraces uncertainty
4. Infinite source of creativity
5. Co-creates with God and co-creates with the mystery

Everyone has an observer; everyone is observing based on memory and interpretation and is making choices based on desire; and everyone has that common ground which is infinite possibilities, non-local correlations, uncertainty, procreation and creativity. That’s what the soul is.

What is the Difference Between the Soul and the Mind?
The mind is the process of observation. The soul is the observer. What is the physical reality including that of the body? It’s the object of observation. You observe through your mind and you observe the body and you observe other bodies. But remember that other bodies and everything else that you observe are a translation of bodily processes in your own self by your nervous system.

So when I observe you out there, actually I am observing bodily processes in my mind that I interpret as you. So everything happens in our body, mind and soul. The observer is the soul, the process is the mind, and the physical body is the object.

Deepak Chopra is Director of Education at the Chopra Center, which offers training programmes in mind-body medicine, and is author of many books, most recently Grow Younger, Live Longer.

[General Zod]

It sounds like a lot of long-winded hand waving and pulling shit out of their ass. Give me links to peer reviewed journals and studies, and I'll be willing to take it more seriously.

[Keevan_Colton]

Ah lovely, new age horse shit + the term quantum = book deal.

[Darth Raptor]

Dualism is one of those things I want so desperately to believe in, but just seems so blatantly, flat-out false. *sigh*

[General Zod]

Ah lovely, new age horse shit + the term quantum = book deal.

That quote had more technobabble in it than your standard episode of Voyager. It was almost painful to read.

[Keevan_Colton]

Wow, it also has bullshit like a bird needing to evolve all in one step...missed that on my skim through...
*chalks another abuse against science up for the piece*

[CaptJodan]

It existed as potential in consciousness but it wasn’t in your brain.

Somehow, this line warned me that this might be a creationists wet dream rant. You had to wait till part 2 to get to it, but sure enough.

Forgive me if this guy actually knows what he's talking about (but I'm fairly sure, especially with the language he used "all scientists believe" bla bla) but this smells like horse shit to me. Your brain makes new neuron connections and interconnects things for memories. Then when your brain fires in a certain pattern, that memory comes up. Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't some quantum event.

[Keevan_Colton]

It existed as potential in consciousness but it wasn’t in your brain.

Somehow, this line warned me that this might be a creationists wet dream rant. You had to wait till part 2 to get to it, but sure enough.

Forgive me if this guy actually knows what he's talking about (but I'm fairly sure, especially with the language he used "all scientists believe" bla bla) but this smells like horse shit to me. Your brain makes new neuron connections and interconnects things for memories. Then when your brain fires in a certain pattern, that memory comes up. Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't some quantum event.

He's director at an institute that appaers to be named for him...this is generally not a good sign*

*Randi is an exception.

[Keevan_Colton]

Ah, just found the centres website...they have a section on astrology...

[CorSec]

The point I am trying to make is that when I ask you to envisage a sunset or a candle flame, before you remember it that information is not in your brain.

I didn't have to go too far in before my shoes got dirty. If I've seen a sunset or a candle then, barring Alzheimer's or other brain maladies, that information is in my brain.

I only wish I could remember where I read about a study on how the brain reveals "inspired" (original) thought.

[DPDarkPrimus]

"quantumbiocommunication.com"? Big red flags just from the URL.

[Keevan_Colton]

If you can wiggle your toes with the mere flicker of an intention, why can't you reset your biological clock?

If you could live in the moment you would see the flavor of eternity and when you metabolize the experience of eternity your body doesn't age.

Ayurveda is the science of life and it has a very basic, simple kind of approach, which is that we are part of the universe and the universe is intelligent and the human body is part of the cosmic body, and the human mind is part of the cosmic mind, and the atom and the universe are exactly the same thing but with different form, and the more we are in touch with this deeper reality, from where everything comes, the more we will be able to heal ourselves and at the same time heal our planet. --Deepak Chopra

Ayurvedic medicine is an "alternative" medical practice that claims it is the traditional medicine of India. Ayurveda is based on two Sanskrit terms: ayu meaning life and veda meaning knowledge or science. Since the practice is said to be some 5,000 years old, what it considers to be knowledge or science may not coincide with the most updated information available to Western medicine. In any case, most of the ancient treatments are not recorded and what is called traditional Indian medicine is, for the most part, something developed in the 1980s by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (Barrett) who brought Transcendental Meditation to the western world. The St. Paul of this movement is Deepak Chopra, who has done more than anyone else to spread the good word about the wonders of Ayurveda.

Ayurvedic treatments are primarily dietary and herbal. Patients are classified by body types, or prakriti, which are determined by proportions of the three doshas. The doshas allegedly regulate mind-body harmony. Illness and disease are considered to be a matter of imbalance in the doshas. Treatment is aimed at restoring harmony or balance to the mind-body system. Vata, composed of air and space, allegedly governs all movement in the mind and body and must be kept in good balance. Too much vata leads to "worries, insomnia, cramps and constipation....Vata controls blood flow, elimination of wastes, breathing and the movement of thoughts across the mind." Vata also controls the other two principles, Pitta and Kapha. Pitta is said to be composed of fire and water; it allegedly governs "all heat, metabolism and transformation in the mind and body. It controls how we digest food, how we metabolize our sensory perceptions, and how we discriminate between right and wrong." Pitta must be kept in balance, too. "Too much [Pitta] can lead to anger, criticism, ulcers, rashes and thinning hair." Kapha consists of earth and water. "Kapha cements the elements in the body, providing the material for physical structure. This dosha maintains body resistance....Kapha lubricates the joints; provides moisture to the skin; helps to heal wounds; fills the spaces in the body; gives biological strength, vigor and stability; supports memory retention; gives energy to the heart and lungs and maintains immunity...Kapha is responsible for emotions of attachment, greed and long-standing envy; it is also expressed in tendencies toward calmness, forgiveness and love." Too much Kapha leads to lethargy and weight gain, as well as congestion and allergies.

On the basis of the above metaphysical physiology, Ayurveda recommends such things as: to pacify Kapha eat spicy foods and avoid sweet foods, except for honey but don't heat the honey. Avoid tomatoes and nuts. Turkey is fine but avoid rabbit and pheasant. If you've got too much Pitta then try this: eat sweet foods and avoid the spicy. Eat nuts. To reduce Vata: eat sweet, sour and salty foods; avoid spicy foods. Nuts are good and so are dairy products.

Meditation is also a significant therapy in Ayurveda. Except for the benefits of relaxation and meditation, there is no scientific evidence to support any of the many astounding claims made on behalf of Ayurvedic medicine. Even the claims made for the significant health benefits of Transcendental Meditation have been greatly exaggerated and distorted (Wheeler).

Quantum healing is healing the bodymind from a quantum level. That means from a level which is not manifest at a sensory level. Our bodies ultimately are fields of information, intelligence and energy. Quantum healing involves a shift in the fields of energy information, so as to bring about a correction in an idea that has gone wrong. So quantum healing involves healing one mode of consciousness, mind, to bring about changes in another mode of consciousness, body. --Deepak Chopra

Deepak Chopra is a graduate of the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (1968) and a former leader of the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi's Transcendental Meditation and Ayurvedic medicine programs.

Chopra claims that perfect health is a matter of choice and that he can identify your dosha and its state of balance or imbalance simply by taking your pulse. He claims that allergies are usually caused by poor digestion. He claims you can prevent and reverse cataracts by brushing your teeth, scraping your tongue, spitting into a cup of water, and washing your eyes for a few minutes with this mixture. According to Chopra, "contrary to our traditional notions of aging, we can learn to direct the way our bodies metabolize time" (Wheeler). Chopra also promotes aromatherapy based on the Ayurvedic metaphysical physiology. He sells oils and spices specifically aimed at appeasing Vata, Pitta or Kapha. Actually, what Chopra and other "alternative" healers sell is hope. Chopra gives hope to the dying that they will not die and hope to the living that they can live forever in perfect health. But his hope seems to be a false hope based on an unscientific imagination seeped in mysticism and cheerily dispensed gibberish. Science is unnecessary to test Ayurvedic claims since "the masters of Ayurvedic medicine can determine an herb's medicinal qualities by simply looking at it (Wheeler)."
quantum healing

Dr. Chopra has done more than any other single person to popularize the Maharishi's Ayurvedic medicine in America, including some New Age energy concepts that boldly and falsely assert a connection between quantum physics and consciousness. According to Chopra, "We are each a localized field of energy and information with cybernetic feedback loops interacting within a nonlocal field of energy and information." He claims we can use "quantum healing" to overcome aging. Chopra believes that the mind heals by harmonizing or balancing the "quantum mechanical body" (his term for prana or chi). He says that "simply by localizing your awareness on a source of pain, you can cause healing to begin, for the body naturally sends healing energy wherever attention is drawn." Or, as he also puts it, "If you have happy thoughts, then you make happy molecules." This "quantum mysticism" has no basis in physics and represents a leap of the metaphysical imagination (Stenger).

The notion that ancient Hindu mysticism is just quantum physics wrapped in metaphysical garb seems to have originated with Fritjof Capra in his book The Tao of Physics: An Exploration of the Parallels Between Modern Physics and Eastern Mysticism (1975). The book's first two parts are excellent expositions on ancient religions and modern physics. The third part, which tries to connect the two is an abysmal failure and about the purest poppycock this side of Bombay. Nevertheless, it has been this third part which has influenced numerous New Age energy medicine advocates to claim that quantum physics proves the reality of everything from chi and prana to ESP. The idea that there is such a connection is denied by most physicists but books like Capra's and Gary Zukav's The Dancing Wu Li Masters : An Overview of the New Physics (1976) overshadow and are much more popular than more sensible books written by physicists.

Chopra and other defenders of Ayurveda, following Capra and Zukav, are fond of claiming that modern physics has substantially validated ancient Hindu metaphysics. However, physicist Heinz R. Pagels, author of The Cosmic Code: Quantum Physics as the Language of Nature vehemently rejects the notion that there is any significant connection between the discoveries of modern physicists and the metaphysical claims of Ayurveda. "No qualified physicist that I know would claim to find such a connection without knowingly committing fraud," says Dr. Pagels.

The claim that the fields of modern physics have anything to do with the "field of consciousness" is false. The notion that what physicists call "the vacuum state" has anything to do with consciousness is nonsense. The claim that large numbers of people meditating helps reduce crime and war by creating a unified field of consciousness is foolishness of a high order. The presentation of the ideas of modern physics side by side, and apparently supportive of, the ideas of the Maharishi about pure consciousness can only be intended to deceive those who might not know any better.

Reading these materials authorized by the Maharishi causes me distress because I am a man who values the truth. To see the beautiful and profound ideas of modern physics, the labor of generations of scientists, so willfully perverted provokes a feeling of compassion for those who might be taken in by these distortions. I would like to be generous to the Maharishi and his movement because it supports world peace and other high ideals. But none of these ideals could possibly be realized within the framework of a philosophy that so willfully distorts scientific truth (Pagels).

What Chopra is peddling is quantum gibberish.
deception and expanding the market

As would be expected of a guru spreading false hope, Chopras' trustworthiness has been compromised. In 1991, Chopra, when president of the American Association of Ayurvedic Medicine, submitted a report to the Journal of the American Medical Association, along with Hari M. Sharma, MD, professor of pathology at Ohio State University College of Medicine, and Brihaspati Dev Triguna, an Ayurvedic practitioner in New Delhi, India. Chopra, Sharma and Triguna claimed they were disinterested authorities and were not affiliated with any organization that could profit by the publication of their article. But

they were intimately involved with the complex network of organizations that promote and sell the products and services about which they wrote. They misrepresented Maharishi Ayur-Veda as India's ancient system of healing, rather than what it is, a trademark line of "alternative health" products and services marketed since 1985 by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the Hindu swami who founded the Transcendental Meditation (TM) movement (Skolnick).

Chopra spends much of his time writing and lecturing from his base in California where he is licensed to practice medicine. He charges $25,000 per lecture performance, where he spouts out a few platitudes and give spiritual advice while warning against the ill effects of materialism. His audiences are apparently not troubled by his living in a $2.5 million house in La Jolla, California, where he parks his green Jaguar, which he can easily afford since he has amassed millions of dollars from the sales of his books, tapes, herbs, appearances, etc. Chopra is much richer and certainly more famous than he ever was as an endocrinologist or as chief of staff at New England Memorial Hospital. He left traditional medicine behind in 1981 when Triguna convinced him that if he didn't make a change he'd get heart disease. Shortly after that he got involved in Transcendental Meditation. In 1984 Chopra met the Maharishi himself and in 1985 Chopra became director of the Maharishi Ayurveda Health Center for Stress Management in Lancaster, Massachusetts. Soon he was an international purveyor of herbs and tablets through Maharishi Ayurvedic products.

Perhaps the greatest deception of Ayurveda is that it cares for the person, not just the body as traditional medicine does. As Chopra puts it, "The first question an Ayurvedic doctor asks is not, 'What disease does my patient have?' but, 'Who is my patient?'"* That may be the question, but it is not a person that the doctor is healing. It is the "quantum body" or the "mind-body"; it is the dosha that needs balancing. Taking a person's pulse and telling them their dosha is unbalanced and they should eat more nuts or less spicy foods, etc., hardly shows concern for the patient as a person. Not using a current photo on your web site or on the jacket of your latest book, which would show how you are aging, is deceptive, especially since you claim to know how to overcome aging.

Self-deception is rampant in the alternative health arena, and Chopra has had his share. In Return of the Rishi he reveals what attracted him to Transcendental Meditation: it helped him overcome his dependence on alcohol, tobacco and coffee. The man was stressed by his job and his lifestyle contributed to that stress. He committed the pragmatic fallacy and became a true believer because he was now happy. Fine, but he since has gone on to try to confirm TM and Ayurveda with quantum physics, pseudoscientific writings and seminars. Even though his patients died while he was claiming he had given them perfect health, he maintained his position. And, when association with TM itself became too stressful and a hindrance to his success, he left.* (Chopra had heard that Bill Moyers wouldn't include him in his PBS series Healing and the Mind because of Chopra's association with a "cult.") He now runs the Chopra Center for Well Being in La Jolla, California, where the mission is "to heal, to love, to transform and to serve." It is a spiritual center, where you can come to "better understand the power of your body, mind and spirit connection to both your inner and outer universe." Because many of those who come to this center are sick, one might call it a faith healing center. There are a few other things one might call it, but they might arouse Chopra's legal staff, who are fond of suing critics of their employer.

Chopra has also admitted in so many words that his Ageless Body, Timeless Mind: The Quantum Alternative to Growing Old plagiarized Professor Robert Sapolsky's contribution to Behavioral Endocrinology. Sapolosky is the author of chapter 10, "Neuroendocrinology of the Stress-Response." He sued Chopra in 1997 for lifting large chunks of his work without proper attribution.

Of course, Chopra has a web site where he will be honored to take your money for one of his many books, tapes, or seminars. We should not be too harsh with our guru, however. It is understandable that he would give up working in medicine in favor of working in religion. In medicine you are surrounded by sick people and constantly reminded of your own mortality. It is difficult work, often very stressful and unrewarding. As Chopra himself put it: "It's frustrating to see patients again and again, and to keep giving them sleeping pills, tranquilizers and antibiotics, for their hypertension or ulcers, when you know you're not getting rid of the problem or disease."* Also, while taking care of others, a physician might fail to take care of himself and come to require sleeping pills, tranquilizers, something to lower the blood pressure and relieve the stress in himself. In religion, on the other hand, you can surround yourself only with sycophants who demand to be deluded and deceived because it makes them feel so healthy and happy. By turning to metaphysics instead of biology, one avoids the risk of being proved wrong. It is much easier to dispense hope based on nothing to miserable people than it is to accept harsh and sometimes brutal reality while maintaining health, optimism and happiness. It is much easier for some people to face life by deceiving themselves into thinking they alone are in charge of what is real and what is true. It is much easier to find confirming evidence for a worldview than it is to do nuts-and-bolts research. It is certainly much more enjoyable to chat with Oprah Winfrey and rub elbows with the rich and famous than to watch another cancer patient die.
Why are Ayurveda and Chopra so popular?

The popularity of Ayurveda and Chopra is a testament to the failure of modern life and modern medicine to satisfy deep longings for simplicity, trust, a clean and wholesome environment, something to counteract the fragmentation, alienation and isolation that many people feel.* Hope is a powerful narcotic. Representing peace and love, caring and respect, as well as esoteric knowledge for the masses, "alternative" medicines will always be popular. And, the fact is that the "alternatives" often put people like Deepak Chopra on a much healthier track than they were on before they got involved with Ayurveda, qigong, Polar Reflex Quantum Energy Dynamics (it may not exist yet, but give it time), etc. Most people would be better off if they followed some of the sensible recommendations of the "alternatives": eat less and don't stuff yourself with fatty and sugary foods with near zero nutritional value, relax, don't smoke or drink or use other drugs to try to make you feel better, don't take things so seriously, treat other people kindly and with respect, spend more time with friends and family building relationships, quit worrying about being so successful and rich or famous, be concerned about what you put into your body and what all of us are putting into our air and water. Philosophy can serve these interests. But most people also want some sort of assurance that this is not all there is, that This is NOT It. They want to believe in immortality and "alternatives" like Ayurveda fulfill this need. The hypocrisy of a materialist advising them that materialism is the root of all evil easily slips by.

But I would ask, if Ayurveda is so wonderful and has been practiced in India for thousands of years, why doesn't Dr. Chopra return to India to live? Likewise, why don't all those who praise the wonders of traditional Chinese medicine ( TCM) return to China? The answer seems obvious: the wonders of Ayurveda and TCM have been greatly exaggerated. China and India are the two largest countries in the world but there has not been a run of people in the west immigrating to either country. Why? Because the chances of living a healthier, wealthier, richer life are better in America than in either India or China. Neither country is the place anyone would hold up as a paradigm of healthy people. China ranks 81st, India ranks 134th and the USA ranks 24th in overall level of health, according to the World Health Organization. Life expectancy is much greater in North America than in China or India. In 1998, life expectancy in the United States was 72.9 years for men and 83.3 years for women. In India the figures are 62.3 years for men and 63.7 years for women. China's life expectancy in 1998 was 68.3 years for men and 71.1 years for women. Does Deepak Chopra really believe that nutritional deficiency is a bigger problem in North America than in India? Does he really believe that people live longer, happier, healthier lives in India and China than here? If so, why does he stay? Can he say with a straight face: I have come from the promised land to this barren desert and I will stay here to lead you to perfect health in my new Jaguar.

I'll let Dr. Chopra have the last word:

I in fact don't believe in the existence of time. That's one thing I have to tell you, and the other is that I don't take myself or what I am doing seriously.*

[Rye]

It looks like standard new agey bullshit to me. I have a better explanation here, covers the average arguments.

Reasons why the "mind from afar" idea is silly:

How many thoughts can they pick up with multiple brains? Oh that's right, none, the transferrance of thoughts requires sensory perception.

Why do people with split brains have two different minds? This is comfortably explained with the lamented "reductionist" stance, but where are the extra mind rays coming from? What prompts them into existence?

Why do personalities change when you shut bits of the mind down?

We can see that the soul/mind-by-wire hypothesis is defunct, or at least is entirely bound by physical processes to the extent that it is a superfluous hypothesis, hardly befitting an immortal fundamnetally unchangable nonphysical personality that merely controls the body "fly by wire"is it?

Free will is unfalsifiable, as is determinism. That said, human behaviour and thought can be largely predictable, as Derren Brown regularly shows, as Cold Readers have shown for years.

Their concept is completely unfalsifiable, and think about it, if a seperate entity is indistinguishable from its machinisations, why on Earth should we consider it an explanation if it explains nothing more? It's just adding a term purposelessly. I mean take a TV, it is distinguishable from the signal it interprets, whereas an isolated personal computer is not. No such transmitter/receiver parts of the brain have ever been identified, that actually beam information to "other" sources, neurones relay information to one another, not something seperate from themselves. If someone started saying that hard drives had an incorporeal element that was the actual source for all the information on it, and it just communicated it through the machine, many geeks would just spit in the guy's face. It could be argued as successfully as the brain/soul thing, however, because it's all just sophistry.

Everything that's been attributed to the soul, consciousness, awareness, memories, personal tastes, the personality as a whole, control over the body etc have all been shown to be physical-dependent. So, without any of these things, precisely what is it the soul does, what crosses over, how does it experience things, and where does it come from? How come any argument for one just ends up looking like pure sophistry?

[Durandal]

Any time I see the word "actualize", my bullshit detector spikes.

[Keevan_Colton]

Any time I see the word "actualize", my bullshit detector spikes.

And with good cause...the guy also apparently got chewed out for bullshiting actual medical journals.

The Maharhish Caper: Or How to Hoodwink Top Medical Journals
by Andrew A. Skolnick

From time to time, even the most prestigious science journals publish erroneous or fraudulent data, unjustified conclusions, and sometimes balderdash. Balderdash was the right word when The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) published the article, "Maharishi Ayur-Veda: Modern Insights Into Ancient Medicine," in its May 22/29 issue. Discovering that they had been deceived by the article's authors, the editors published a correction in the August 14 issue, which was followed on October 2 by a six-page expose on the people who had hoodwinked them.

By reporting its mistake in this lengthy report and drawing the media's attention to it with a news release, JAMA made itself an easy target, even drawing some friendly fire from Physician's Weekly and Science. As the person who discovered JAMA's error and wrote the expose, I also think the journal deserves some praise.

The Maharishi Ayur-Veda article was ostensibly about the traditional healing system of India known as Ayurveda. It was published in JAMA's international health theme issue as a "Letter From New Delhi" outside the journal's "main well" for scientific papers. The authors, Deepak Chopra, MD, president of the American Association of Ayurvedic Medicine, Lancaster, Mass., Hari M. Sharma, MD, professor of pathology at Ohio State University College of Medicine, Columbus, and Brihaspati Dev Triguna, an Ayurvedic practitioner in New Delhi, India, represented themselves as disinterested authorities and had signed a statement that they were not affiliated with any organization that could profit by the publication of their article. (JAMA's conflict-of-interest policy requires authors of accepted manuscripts to declare all such connections.)

Subsequent investigation showed they were intimately involved with the complex network of organizations that promote and sell the products and services about which they wrote. They misrepresented Maharishi Ayur-Veda as India's ancient system of healing, rather than what it is, a trademark line of "alternative health" products and services marketed since 1985 by the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, the Hindu swami who founded the Transcendental Meditation (TM) movement.

Maharishi Mahesh Yogi began his rise to fame and great fortune in the 1960s when the Beatles rock group briefly joined his following of worshipers. Today the guru rules an empire estimated to be worth billions of dollars and has many thousands of devoted followers, some of whom are prominent in science, medicine, education, and the news, information, and entertainment media. The TM movement is considered a religious cult by a number of authorities, including Cynthia Kisser, executive director of the Cult Awareness Network. According to long-time watchers of the movement, Maharishi Ayur-Veda is the latest of the Maharishi's schemes to boost the declining numbers of people taking TM courses through which he recruits new members. The movement also stands to reap millions of dollars through the sale of its herbal remedies, oils, teas, aromas, healing gems, Hindu horoscopes, books, tapes, and numerous services that carry the Maharishi's name.
Copies Already in the Mail

I first saw the Maharishi Ayur-Veda article four days prior to the publication date, when hundreds of thousands of copies were already in the mail. At the time, I didn't know anything about Maharishi's medical claims, but I was aware that the TM movement widely uses deception to promote its $3000 courses in TM-Sidhi or "yogic flying." TM promoters claim that, by mastering this technique, people can develop the ability to walk through walls, make themselves invisible, develop the "strength of an elephant," reverse the aging process, and fly through the air without the benefit of machines.

In addition, TM promoters claim that by yogic flying in large groups they can prevent bad weather, traffic fatalities, and even war. Former members of the movement say that the practice of TM- Sidhi involves repeating a series of Hindu mantras during meditation followed by several minutes of hopping up and down in the crossed-legged "lotus" position. Adherents claim that they are not hopping but levitating and that they have hundreds of scientific studies to prove it.

I called Stephen Barrett, MD, and William Jarvis, PhD, of the National Council Against Health Fraud and asked what information they had about Maharishi Ayur-Veda. What they told me made it clear that JAMA had been duped. After poring through the promotional TM materials they sent and talking with several former TMers, I reported my findings to George Lundberg, MD, editor of JAMA and suggested that we expose the authors and the movement they represent in a JAMA Medical News & Perspectives story. I was given the assignment, which took me almost 3 months to complete. The resulting article, "Maharishi Ayur-Veda: Guru's Marketing Scheme Promises World Eternal `Perfect Health'," was published on October 2.

Unusually long for Medical News & Perspectives, the expose on the marketing of Maharishi Ayur-Veda documents a widespread pattern of misinformation, deception, and manipulation of lay and scientific news media. This campaign appears to be aimed at earning at least the look of scientific respectability for the TM movement, while boosting the sales of their extremely lucrative products and services. (One example is the herbal elixir known as Maharishi Amrish Kalash, which costs $1000 for a year's supply.

Chopra says everyone should take the cure/prevent-all twice a day. Chopra claims their health care is far more cost-effective than conventional medicine. However, the annual cost of just this one Maharishi Ayur-Veda product is equivalent to 40% of the average per-capita expenditure on all health care in the United States in 1989. The other products and services he recommends just to maintain health would cost thousands of dollars more each year. However, this pales compared with the cost of Maharishi Ayur-Veda treatments in case of actual illness, which can exceed $10,000 for the performance of a ceremony to appease the gods or or for the purchase of Jyotish gems to restore their health.

Upon discovering the deception, JAMA requested from the authors a full account of their connections to TM organizations. The confusing statement they provided was published as a financial disclosure correction on August 14 and represents only what the authors admitted. While it appears to hold the record in terms of length for a financial disclosure correction in the journal, the account is still incomplete. Among other things, Chopra did not acknowledge that he collects hundreds of thousands of dollars from his seminars on Maharishi Ayur-Veda and by providing Maharishi Ayur-Veda treatments. (According to David Perlman's October 2 San Francisco Chronicle article, Chopra claims he gives 50% to 70% of his fees to the movement.) He also did not report that he had been the sole stock holder, president, treasurer, and clerk of Maharishi Ayur-Veda Products International, Inc (MAPI), the sole distributor of Maharishi Ayur-Veda products. Although he no longer holds these titles, Chopra still has the same office address and phone number as MAPI.
Peer Review Not Foolproof

JAMA's publication of the Maharishi Ayur-Veda article brought a hail of angry letters from readers (also published in the October 2 issue) along with some snickers from other publications. In its November 11 issue, Physician's Weekly published an account of JAMA getting "flimflammed by a swami." The October 11 issue of Science knocked JAMA for publishing "shoddy science" and getting itself into an "Indian herbal jam."

Science writers know that the peer-review system of scientific publications is not foolproof. Drummond Rennie, MD, deputy editor (West) of JAMA has written: "There seems to be no study too fragmented, no hypothesis too trivial, no literature too biased or too egotistical, no design too warped, no methodology too bungled, no presentation of results too inaccurate, too obscure, and too contradictory, no analysis too self-serving, no argument too circular, no conclusions too trifling or too unjustified, and no grammar and syntax too offensive for a paper to end up in print." Peer review determines where rather than whether a paper should be published, Rennie says. However, from time to time, "shoddy science" ends up in the most prestigious of journals.

It may be hard to understand how a system so effective in sifting out errors in experimental design, statistical analyses, and faulty conclusions could fail to catch blatant deceit. However, errors are usually easier to spot than outright deceit. Journals do not have the staff and resources to investigate contributing authors and must rely in large part on trust. Obviously, failure to disclose their conflicts of interest is a serious betrayal of that trust.

The editors who handled the Maharishi Ayur-Veda manuscript did not know about the history of deception associated with the TM movement, but they did know that two of the three authors had excellent medical and academic credentials. In addition, the authors were able to cite studies that were published in peer- review journals to support their claims. (One study listed in their references was published in the prestigious Yale University publication, The Journal of Conflict Resolution [December 1988]. This study purported to show that a group of yogic fliers in Israel was able to reduce the level of violence in war-torn Lebanon.) They also could point to the National Cancer Institute research grants awarded Sharma and others to study the herbal elixir, Maharishi Amrit Kalash.

Few people are aware of how far the TM movement has been able to penetrate into the halls of medicine and academia. According to the letterhead for the American Association of Ayurvedic Medicine, its research council and advisory council include physicians at many prestigious medical schools and institutions. Sharma is professor of pathology and director of the Division of Cancer Prevention and Natural Products Research at Ohio State University College of Medicine. Others associated with Chopra include Steele Belok, MD, and Amy Silver, MD, both clinical instructors at Harvard Medical School; Agnes Lattimer, MD, medical director of Cook County Hospital in Chicago; Kelvin O. Lim, MD, assistant professor of psychiatry and behavioral science, Stanford University School of Medicine; Barry Marmorstein, MD, associate professor, University of Washington School of Medicine; S.M. Siram, MD, director of the Surgical Intensive Care Unit and Trauma at Howard University School of Medicine.

With the help of such well-placed physicians and academicians, the TM movement has been able to project a respectable front in its scheme to market Maharishi Ayur-Veda. In June, the American College of Preventive Medicine accredited Maharishi Ayur-Veda courses for Continuing Medical Education for physicians, for the second time. The National Cancer Institute is currently funding 11 studies testing the anti-cancer potential of the concoction of herbs and minerals called Maharishi Amrit Kalash -- even though its exact composition has not been revealed. The National Institutes of Health allows its facilities to be used for monthly introductory seminars on Maharishi Ayur-Veda. And for years, U.S colleges and universities have allowed their facilities to be used by the TM movement to teach yogic flying.
JAMA'S Goof Not Unique

The TM movement has an extremely aggressive p.r. operation with a remarkable record in getting favorable reports in newspapers, magazines, and the broadcast media. Like mushrooms after a spring rain, articles on Chopra, TM, and the Maharishi's medicines keep popping up in places like The Boston Globe, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and even American Medical News (also published by the American Medical Association). Favorable reviews of Chopra's books on Maharishi Ayur-Veda have appeared in many leading medical journals. Joanne Silberner, medical reporter for U.S. News and World Report, says that Dean Draznin, former director of public affairs for Maharishi Ayur-Veda, used to call her about twice a month with another angle to pitch.

In August, Johns Hopkins Magazine published an uncritical profile on Nancy Lonsdorf, MD, medical director of the Maharishi Ayur-Veda Medical Center in Washington, DC. Lonsdorf is the physician who, in a fund-raising letter distributed to members of the TM community, is described as having recommended a $11,500 yagya for a patient with a serious health problem. The Maharishi's yagyas are Hindu ceremonies to appease the gods and beseech their help for ailing followers.

Despite the extraordinary costs of these ceremonies, patients do not take part or even get to see them performed. (Chopra and Lonsdorf both deny that they recommend yagyas. Chopra insists that yagyas are not part of the Maharishi Ayur-Veda program. Nevertheless, I have a copy of another patient's health analysis from Chopra's center in Lancaster, Mass. that recommends the performance of not one but two different yagyas.)

In its 1989 September/October issue, Harvard Magazine published a cover story on Chopra by associate editor Craig Lambert that touted the Maharishi's wares. Reprints of this article were widely circulated by the TM movement. The magazine's readers were not informed that the author practices yogic flying.
[N.B.: After this article had been written for ScienceWriters Lambert informed me that, at the time he wrote his article for Harvard Magazine he had not yet started yogic flying although he was a TM practitioner. He also said that Harvard Magazine's managing editor had misinformed me about the movement's ordering/circulating reprints of his article. -- AAS]

Lambert wrote JAMA a letter protesting my investigation and accusing me of "sleazy" and "deceptive" behavior. This letter was one of many sent to protest my inquiries. Among them were repeated requests from Chopra and his attorney that they be allowed to preview my article before publication, along with warnings that they may sue if defamed.

In the February 1984 NASW Newsletter, Patrick Young wrote, "Reporting any story that might prove embarrassing to a publication is filled with delightful irony. Editors, writers and others who believe in and argue the public's right to know, suddenly react as any good group of company executives, government bureaucrats, or union officials would in a similar situation. They draw up the wagons in a tight circle."

When I reported my findings to my editors, I feared that they too might choose to circle the wagons. Instead, they asked me to recount how the journal had been deceived and backed me against a stream of protests and threats from Maharishi's followers and attorneys.
Andrew Skolnick is associate editor for the Journal of the American Medical Association's Medical News & Perspectives Department.

[Darth Lucifer]

I was waiting for the author to cite the supermarket tabloid where it was stated that the human soul weighed 1/10000 of a gram.

[Dooey Jo]

That whole thing is pure bullshit. Basically, he's using some terminology from quantum mechanics and makes assumptions based on what those words usually mean. "Uncertainty makes creativity"; not quite what the uncertainty principle says and it shows that he pretty much knows nothing about the concept of uncertainty.

... when Captain Kirk says, "Beam me up, Scottie," Scottie presses a button and Kirk disappears from here and shows up in another galaxy - and there is no time-lag. That’s called a quantum leap in physics. It’s happening all the time.

Aha! So he's a trekkie wanker, eh? Where's his proof that transporters have intergalactic range?
And no, it's not called a "quantum leap", it's called teleportation. Quantum leap is when an electron change energy states within an atom; the difference is quite huge.

[Gustav32Vasa]

Hopefullt I wont get stuck in the beyond.

I think I got stupider just by reading this.

Is stupider a word?

[Gil Hamilton]

My word, thar be bullshit. I had trouble getting beyond the first part, since I'm talking about the article I might as well read it. However, memories don't work the way he described. He talks as though suggesting an idea causes the memory to exist from outside your brain, but what is actually happening is you see the words "sunset" or "candle in dark room", and you pull from your memory things that match those terms. Every person would envision something different that matched up, because we've got different memories, but the images of the candle or the sunset would be pulled from schema matching what we have experienced are candles and sunsets. They are unique to us and from inside our minds.

...besides that, neurology has demonstrated by experimentation that memories are stored chemically in the brain. We've even got models and very specific systems in how memories are stored chemically on the brain.

The article is just psuedo-scientific bullshit.

[TheBlackCat]

So this person seems to have done a lot of research on quantum mechanis. I am not analyzing these arguments because frankly I don't know much about quantum mechanics except where it really applies to biology. My specialty is the human body, and the brain and nervous system in particular, so I am restricting myself mostly to those aspects. In this regard the person has obviously done absolutely no research whatsoever. The argument are not wrong, they are completely without any relationship to the real world whatsoever. The person obvious couldn't be bothered to actually find out how the human body, and the human brain in particulary, actually worked. He or she obviously just decided to make up an explanation, reality be damned. Considering that this is fundamentally an explanation of how the human body works, you would think the person might actually want to have some knowledge of the human body. But apparently he or she didn't

What you are dealing with here is a strawman. Instead of actually doing research to find out how the brain and human body really work, someone just made up a completely and utterly wrong descritption and proceeded to use that as evidence to support their argument. Textbook strawman.

Think of a sunset… As soon as you see this image there is a binary code of photons coding for that experience in your brain. Think of a dark room with the flame of a candle.

The visual information that is encoded by the optic nerve isn't individual photons, it is changes in light contrast, changes in color contrast, direction of movement, and either the presence or absence of contrast. So this person obviously hasn't actually done any research whatsoever.

Now if I were able to look inside your brain, there would be no candle there - just a binary code of photons flickering on and off.

Wrong again. At the level of the optic nerve and lateral geniculate nucleus, the things that are coded for (primarily changes in light or color contrast) are all that there is. At the primary visual cortex, the cells encode for lines, angles, and other simple components of shapes. Higher-level areas encode for simple shapes. Still higher areas encode for more complicated shapes or combinations of shapes. The detection of general faces, for instance, is a relatively lower-level process.

As you get to higher-level processing areas, you start getting into cells that encode for specific objects (the proverbial "grandma" cell, for instance). Cells have been found that encode for specific people irrespective of whether you are using their name, their fact at any angle or any costume, or a drawing. Same with various famous locations. For instance, in a subject they found a Halle Berry cell that responds to her fact at any angle, her in the catgirl mask, a drawing of her, or her name on a piece of paper. The same cell doesn't respond to any other famous person they showed. So the fundamental basis for their argument is wrong.

Now these are in the hippocampus, dealing with memory, and there is still some controversy regarding them, but the fact remains that either there IS a representation of a candle in an individual cell in your brain, or at the very least there is a representation in several cells of the various components of the candle to actually form the image in your mind.

The question is, where was that image before I asked you to think of it? The point I am trying to make is that when I ask you to envisage a sunset or a candle flame, before you remember it that information is not in your brain. The information shows up in your brain as soon as you have the intention to remember. So where was it before that? It existed as potential in consciousness but it wasn’t in your brain.

Completely and utterly without any basis in reality. The representation of the candle WAS in your brain. It wasn't in your conciousness, but that is only a small part of your brain (we are still not exactly sure where conciousness lies, but it is thought to be spread amongst a number of multimodal sensory and motor association areas). The actual memories are broken into pieces and scattered across various parts of your brain where they are stored, then they are sent to your conciousness when needed. This is well-established because shocked specific parts of the brain can trigger memories to be recalled, and brain tumors can also trigger the recall of memories. Just because you are not conciously aware of something does not mean it is not in your brain, it just means it is not the in areas of your brain dealing with conciousness.

My memories therefore are not in my brain. This is a very important point because the reductionist model says our memories are in our brains. Why does it say that? Because when the brain is damaged people have damaged memories - whether through Alzheimer’s disease, or a comatose state, or through drunkenness.

Completely missing the fact that damage to the brain can also bring back memories.

But the argument is fallacious: it’s the same thing as saying my radio set is damaged and no music is coming out, therefore the music must be manufactured by my radio. The radio doesn’t manufacture the music; it only actualises the music. My television set doesn’t manufacture all those people that I see inside the box; it only actualises them from somewhere else. So, too, your brain is not the source of your thoughts.

Does not follow. The brain is not a radio or television. The fact that a radio or television gets signals from somewhere else does NOT mean the brain does as well. The evidence has absolutely no relevance to their conclusion. Besides, if electrically shocking a particular point reproducibly triggers a particular image or memory, or if a particular point reproducibly responds only to a specific image or memory, you can be pretty sure that there is some fundamental link between that point and that specific image or memory. You do not shock on part of a radio and get a specific song every single time, but shock another part and get another speciific song every single time.

Your brain is a quantum instrument that causes the collapse of wave functions that exist as possibilities before you actualise them as space-time events. So your brain takes possibilities and actualises them into space-time events. It’s a quantum instrument that converts possibility into actuality. It takes the unmanifest and makes it manifest, both in imagination and also as sensory experience.

Wait, what?! Where the heck did they get this? Do they have any evidence to back it up? Nope, just their say-so. The fact is that the "mechanistic" model of the brain works very well, although we are not sure what does what in every case we do in a great many. There is nothing in the brain that somehow requires the collapse of quantum wave function.

<snip>

A bunch of meaningless new-age mumbo-jumbo that doesn't even warrant a repsonse.

Science says, first there is matter, then there is energy and then there is information.

Uh, no. First there was energy, then there was matter. They don't know where the information came from, but it had to originate before matter or the universe would be completely homogeneous.

<snip>

No obvious relevance to the brain.

That’s the essence of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle.

Which only works on nanoscopic or sub-nanoscopic levels.

>snip>

Not important.

How does the human body think thoughts, play a piano, kill germs, remove toxins and gestate a baby all at the same time? And whilst it’s doing all that it correlates every activity with every other activity, all instantaneously without mediating the activity of your liver cell with your kidney cell, with the manufacture of the new baby.

Instantaneous? This is silly, communication takes place anywhere between the sub-ms level to weeks (how long it takes for materials to travel along the axon of a long neuron). Nothing in the human body is instantaneous, it all takes place using well-known (albiet not completely understood) signal transduction mechanism. More evidence this person did absolutely no research whatsoever on the human body.

Not only that, but your body is tracking the movement of stars whilst it’s doing this because the biological rhythms that you call your body are actually the rhythms of the ecosystem and the universe. Everything is correlated with everything else, and it’s not only correlated with everything else: it’s instantly correlated. There is no time, there’s no energy involved because energy is in space-time.

Silly. Your body activity is not correlated with the stars, it is correlated with the sun and seasons. Circadian rhythms are well-established, and although I am not aware of the exact mechanism being known in humans it is known in other animals. What is more, it is well-known that you can screw up a human or animal's circadian rhythm by modifying the stimulus that they normally use as a cue to keep their rhythm in sync (there tends to be some drift in many circadian rhythms). So obviously energy must be transferred or we couldn't toy with the rhythms like we do.

It’s without the use of time signals or energy signals: it’s instantaneous. It is the basis of what we call synchronicity. Non-local correlations are the most impressive and most dominant aspect of nature’s activity. It is totally understood mathematically; it is totally understood in terms of quantum physics - it is totally understood experimentally.

On quantum levels. We are not talking about quantum levels here, so this is not relevant.


I'll deal with part 2 later if there is actually anything worth saying. Right now I have to get to class.

[mr friendly guy]

That was painful just reading that tripe. One has to know a bit about quantum mechanics, biology, evolution to counter argue each bit. I don't know too much about QM, but I will try my hand at some of it as well as the evolution bit.

Your brain is a quantum instrument that causes the collapse of wave functions that exist as possibilities before you actualise them as space-time events. So your brain takes possibilities and actualises them into space-time events. It’s a quantum instrument that converts possibility into actuality. It takes the unmanifest and makes it manifest, both in imagination and also as sensory experience.

Looks like someones trying to twist the Shcrodinger's (?sp) Cat thought experiment to support their bullshit.

Make predictions with this hypothesis of yours. Now design an experiment to show this and come back when you have.

Here, let me give you a hand.

Experiment one
Since the brain converts possibility into actuality, you should be able to "will" the possibility that you win the lottery into actuality.

Experiment two
Lets take a person who has suffered brain damage, say from a severe stroke. Place them in a room and then go away. Now get a person who has never seen said room or brain damaged individual go in and describe the room when he leaves.

Since apparently the brain is needed to collapse the probabilities into actualities, the room should just disappear in the presence of the brain damaged person right?

This guy doesn't understand that HUP refers to particles. On macroscopic scales these fluctautions average out allowing us more accurate predictions.

Science says, first there is matter, then there is energy and then there is information. What is information? Information is a sea of possibilities waiting to be asked questions. That’s what information is. Is the universe wave-like? Is the universe particle-like? Well, it depends on your question. If you do an experiment that is wave-like then it’s wave-like. If you do an experiment that is particle-like then it’s particle-like, and it’s never both simultaneously. That’s the essence of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle.

Whether it is particle-like or wave-like depends on the question. Before you ask the question - what is it like, particle-like or wave-like? - it exists as both potentially.

Actually whether its wave like or particle like is how you measure it. In measuring you change the outcome of the experiment.

It is your question that compels the universe to make a choice. Before you ask the question the universe hasn’t made a choice. As soon as you make the choice the universe is compelled to respond. So at the most fundamental levels of nature, the universe is a sea of infinite possibilities that are compelled to make choices for space-time events once you ask the question. The universe is a big question mark before it becomes actual.

Wrong. Its our attempt to measure (observe) the experiment that changes it. To use an analogy you try to measure the temperature of a room by using a thermometer. However the thermometer itself has a temperature (and by kinetic theory it will reach a thermal equilibrium with the room), so you are altering the experiment (albeit only slightly).

An interesting phenomenon that scientists are now totally comfortable with is a phenomenon called ‘non-local correlation’. Non-local correlation was something that was accidentally described by Einstein in his attempt to actually invalidate quantum physics.

Einstein was very uncomfortable with certain aspects of quantum physics. One of them was non-local correlation. Another was Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle. In fact, when Heisenberg went to explain the uncertainty principle to Einstein, he made that famous comment, "God doesn’t play dice with the universe," because our mechanistic laws say if we know enough about the universe we will be able to predict everything.

Actually, Einstein made that comment to Bohr, not Hisenberg.
He is just explanation the non-local correlation and nothing more needs to be attacked here.

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<snip>

Now scientists totally acknowledge that you cannot explain biology without invoking non-local correlation.

Which scientists and what is their rationale for this.

How does the human body think thoughts,

Via the brain. Although the mechanism I belief is still subject to research. Moreover since you have not shown how this relates to your argument about collapsing probabilities into actuality its just a red herring.

play a piano,

The brain sends electrical signals to muscles which contract.

kill germs,

The immune system recognises the antigens on the germs as foreign. It then attacks them mainly via two ways, one by making antibodies to these antigens and in the case of macrophages, swallowing them up and digesting them with enzymes. Moreover this is another red herring since how the immune system works is irrelevant to the "brain collapses probabilities into actuality" hypothesis.

remove toxins

Via enzymes which metabolise it. Note the body doesn't have intelligence in metabolising toxins as his bullshit implies. For example methanol poisoning. Its mainly toxic when our enzymes (I think its alcohol dehydrogenase) metabolise it into a toxic metabolite. Otherwise we would just excrete it (and hence why the treatment for methanol poisoning is to give garden variety alcohol, so the enzymes metabolise that instead of the methanol). If there was a guiding intelligence, its simply not bother metabolising methanol.

and gestate a baby all at the same time?
And whilst it’s doing all that it correlates every activity with every other activity, all instantaneously without mediating the activity of your liver cell with your kidney cell, with the manufacture of the new baby.

Not only that, but your body is tracking the movement of stars whilst it’s doing this because the biological rhythms that you call your body are actually the rhythms of the ecosystem and the universe. Everything is correlated with everything else, and it’s not only correlated with everything else: it’s instantly correlated.

Whats your point?

There is no time, there’s no energy involved because energy is in space-time.

Obviously making self contradictory statements is basic stuff for morons.

It’s without the use of time signals or energy signals: it’s instantaneous. It is the basis of what we call synchronicity. Non-local correlations are the most impressive and most dominant aspect of nature’s activity. It is totally understood mathematically; it is totally understood in terms of quantum physics - it is totally understood experimentally.

Thought is not instantaneous dumbass. The electrical signals the brain uses cannot travel faster than light. The non-correlation aspects of QM may suggest that information in the case of the two particles happens instantaneously.

First parts of part 2 sniped since he is just re-explaning something to make him look knowledgeable

Furthermore, when I start to do calculations at this level of nature I have to use irrational numbers. An irrational number is a number that you cannot conceptualise. So infinity is an irrational number: you can’t conceptualise it. Pi is an irrational number because it has infinite decimal places. The square root of -31 is an irrational number. I can’t imagine what that would be but I can do calculations. In order to calculate fundamental behaviours of the universe, I have to use irrational numbers that I cannot conceptualise.

I thought an irrational number is any real number that cannot be expressed as a fraction. However to go from that and say you cannot conceptualise it smacks of bullfucker. While there is a limit to the number of digits the square root of 2 has, by defining it as the number that when its squared equals 2, haven't I conceptualised it?

Moreover the square root of -31 is an imaginary number. I would have thought it can't be an irrational number because its not a real number.

Uncertainty is actually the reason for creativity at this level, which is the fourth property of the quantum domain. It is creative. And it’s creative because of the proliferation of uncertainty. If you are certain about everything, where is the room for creativity? Creativity starts with uncertainty. If I know everything then that’s the end of the story, but if I don’t know then there is room for creativity, and the more I don’t know the more room there is for creativity. So at this level nature’s creativity is based on the proliferation of uncertainty. This creativity is quantum in character.

Non sequitar. By that logic, I cannot write an ending to a story which I have planned, because I am already certain of how its going to end.

What does that mean? It has something to do with healing because all healing is biological creativity. All healing is biological creativity. Nature is constantly creating.

All healing is biological creativity (ie must be creating). I am calling this bullshit right now.

Lets see
a) kill bacteria to promote healing. No creativity there.
b) dealing with blood clots. Heard of thrombolysis for heart attack patients who meet certain criteria. We are trying to break down a blod clot, not create things.

Just Look Outside: All this Creation is Happening Right Now
It didn’t happen once upon a time; it is happening at this moment.

What utter bullshit. I was born in 1980, not at this moment. Try again on someone who will swallow your bullfuckery.

At quantum levels photons are collapsing, wave functions are precipitating as space-time events, and our brains are quantum instruments that are translating the collapse of wave functions into … a tree. But that tree is actually being born and is dying at the speed of light right now. God is creating it. If you don’t believe in God then a causal non-local quantum mechanical interrelated field is creating it!

I thought you said all this creation occurs instantaneously. Now its only happening at the mere speed of light. I guess you don't how fast light propagates.

But some mystery is creating it and it’s doing it right now. The whole of creation is happening right now. Not only is it happening right now but some emergent property will emerge which is totally unpredictable as that creativity continues, because creativity repeats itself, the patterns of collapse are repeated and then suddenly there are quantum jumps and those quantum jumps are called emergent properties. That means they didn’t exist before and you didn’t know what they were going to be before they existed.

So despite creativity being totally unpredictable it repeats itself. Obviously you failed logic 101.

Let’s Look at Biological Evolution
We see it is punctuated by these discontinuities. Discontinuities in quantum physics are when a sub-atomic particle moves from one place to another without going through the space in between. So now it’s here and then it’s there and it didn’t go through here or there. And also it’s instantaneous: as soon as it disappears here it shows up there without any time-lag.

If you have ever watched the American TV programme called Star Trek, you know that when Captain Kirk says, "Beam me up, Scottie," Scottie presses a button and Kirk disappears from here and shows up in another galaxy - and there is no time-lag. That’s called a quantum leap in physics. It’s happening all the time.

Huh. I thought the particles don't bypass space between start and finish in these "teleporting" scenarios. Rather a particle at the finish gains the quality of the particle at the start.

At the beginning of this article, I had you create quantum leaps in imagination. I asked you to think of a sunset, think of a candle in a dark room - those were quantum leaps in your imagination. Patterns of photons that were behaving in certain ways switched to behaving in other ways with no time-lag. Like that, nature ‘imagines’ through quantum leaps. So the transition from amphibians to birds is a quantum leap in nature’s imagination.

Ok, essentially he will end up saying evolution is real, but Darwinian explanation of it is wrong.

Classical Darwinian evolution would say an amphibian acquired feathers because it wanted to escape predators by flying - survival of the fittest - but actually acquiring feathers is a biological disadvantage. It makes the creature more cumbersome. It also has to acquire a new metabolic rate because the metabolic rate of a flying creature is completely different from the metabolic rate of an amphibian.

Birds evolved from reptiles.

It requires a new musculoskeletal system; it requires, of course, wings; it requires navigational skills. Everything about an amphibian is different from everything about a bird. So that transition has to be simultaneous; the metabolic rate, the feathers, the musculoskeletal system: all of that transition has to be simultaneous. Each of these has to be non-locally correlated with the other and it has to be sudden, otherwise the bird will fall prey to the predator. It requires the simultaneity of non-local correlated events. Otherwise there is no bird in evolution.

Did it ever occur to you that each step occurred in stages (ie not simultaneously you dishonest anti-evolutionary dipshit) and each stage conferred an evolutionary advantage.

more bullshit snipped

He essentially states his premise about the soul as a conclusion.

Deepak Chopra is a bullshit artist at the Chopra Center, which offers training programmes in pseudoscience, and is author of many books for gullible retards, most recently Grow Younger, Live Longer.

[B5B7]

From skimming through it - it's a load of bullshit.
What's with these photons in the brain - they coming from those little light globes that light up in people's heads in cartoons?
The brain is a chemical-electrical system, therefore electrons transmit data [the only photons should be those coming into your eyes].

[Boyish-Tigerlilly]

Were not feathers originally evolved for non-flight purpouses like insulation or something, but later had a seconary use for flight? I think I read something in Scientific American about that.

I don't know why he's assuming "I want to fly, therefore, I will evolve feathers." Doesn't that imply intent or will? That's not how NS works.

[TheBlackCat]

Were not feathers originally evolved for non-flight purpouses like insulation or something, but later had a seconary use for flight? I think I read something in Scientific American about that.

Feathers couldn't have originally evolved for flight because the mechanism used for flight by birds requires feathers. The animal cannot go from a flightless, featherless animal to a flying, feathered animal in one generation. The intermediate stage between feathers and scales, or even early feathers, would not have aided in flight (or gliding), so there must have been some other selective advantage that led to its evolution. They could only have been co-opted for flight once they were fully developed.

There is still a great deal of debate on this topic, but the two competing hypotheses I have heard the most about are the insulation hypothesis you mentioned and another (although not necessarily mutually exclusive) hypothesis that they were used to help run up steep slopes that the animal couldn't run up on its own (apparently some young birds do this before their feathers become developed enough for flight).