STGOD2k6 Discussion Thread

[Stormin]

That doesn't happen automatically. If someone attacks one of your ships and you respond with a post that simply says "return fire" and nothing else, it will be assumed that your ship is standing still while returning fire. When you describe the battle you do actually have to specify what your ships are doing.

I do have to say it is silly to assume that ships will not be performing at least evasive maneuvering during battle. A ship designed to be "small, super fast, lightly armed/armored" of equal point value (and comparative capability) to a hulking armored juggernaut that uses its higher defense and offense against the other ships maneuverability should result in a fight that could go either way.
Therefore, it is my opinion that point value should determine the outcome of encounters, unless special tactics or situations are used, and the appearance of the ships should be determined by the tech level, culture and other fluff of the race that built it.

Also, having point values dictate training and competence makes no sense because a 100 point dreadnought isn't necessarily going to have a more competent crew then a 4 point frigate.

But a ship of equal size, design, technology etc but with one having a much better trained crew would be more effective and cost more resources resulting in a higher point value.
I am not talking anything game effecting it is simply background and fluff, a way to flesh out the story. Race A is super high tech and makes a bunch of 100 point warships with mass produced crews from Alabama would be just as effective as Race B with lesser tech building a 100 point warship that is twice the size (because of less ability to make everything smaller) and a crew that spent years in training and are among the best that race has to offer.
They both have different tech levels, far different sizes and different quality of crews (which means being able to make the most of what they have) but in terms of a 1v1 encounter they would be equal.

[Thirdfain]

I like stormin's idea a lot. After all, if all conflicts are merely determined by point value (as opposed to formation, organization, preparation, range, concentration of fire, surprise, angle of attack, and maneuver,) then I've already won a crushing victory in the Kreshayan campaign, Glimmervoid can throw in the towel, and my ships can all go home!

Thanks, bro.

On that note, Glimmervoid old son, you've got to get posting. All hell's coming your way, be ready.

[Dahak]

I like stormin's idea a lot. After all, if all conflicts are merely determined by point value (as opposed to formation, organization, preparation, range, concentration of fire, surprise, angle of attack, and maneuver,) then I've already won a crushing victory in the Kreshayan campaign, Glimmervoid can throw in the towel, and my ships can all go home!

Thanks, bro.

On that note, Glimmervoid old son, you've got to get posting. All hell's coming your way, be ready.

But we already have established in earlier STGODs that too much of this freedom often results in pages of useless bickering and posts. That's why we had the whole point system to begin with...

[Stormin]

Obviously you have far more invested in your attack than he can put in his defense. If the campaign is straightforward you shouldn't have much chance of losing.
Please note though:

Therefore, it is my opinion that point value should determine the outcome of encounters, unless special tactics or situations are used,

In a situation not favoring one side, 300 units worth of assets deployed by one side in a battle should win or force the retreat of 150 units of assets nearly every time barring a very unlikely run of luck.

If you screw up on the stratetic level, too, you could lose with a larger force that gets split into smaller pieces and nibbled to death by a smaller enemy who has a larger concentration to bear on any isolated part of the larger force.

[Thirdfain]

But we already have established in earlier STGODs that too much of this freedom often results in pages of useless bickering and posts. That's why we had the whole point system to begin with...

Bah, and bah again. fuck "points only" sideways with a nail-studded ruler. I'd quit in a minute if it were implemented, I came here to play an STGOD, not do math.

More to the point, the STGOD has NEVER had a problem with deep, intricate combat so long as the players involved converse, reach agreements as to fair combat outcomes, and have mods to fall back on when things go wrong. I'll point out that while you didn't see any action of consequence in the last STGOD, I saw a great deal up close and personal. Let me assure you that by the end of the game, moderation and conversation elminated almost all problems with tactical combat. The White Suns/Ouster campaign, for instance.

In a situation not favoring one side, 300 units worth of assets deployed by one side in a battle should win or force the retreat of 150 units of assets nearly every time barring a very unlikely run of luck.

Don't get me wrong. Two compotently run fleets will quickly fall into an N^2 conflict with the stronger fleet coming out as victor. That doesn't mean there haven't been examples of STGOD fleets being completely mismanaged and losing to weaker forces, or of weaker forces being well managed and escaping with minimal casualties or inflicting disporportionate losses before being eliminated.

If you screw up on the stratetic level, too, you could lose with a larger force that gets split into smaller pieces and nibbled to death by a smaller enemy who has a larger concentration to bear on any isolated part of the larger force.

But of course. I agree completely that the power of your force and the skill with which you concentrate it at the strategic level to assure local dominance is of paramount importance to STGOD warfare.

Don't get me wrong. I endeavour to always go into an individual engagement with superior (if not overwhelming) force. I just don't think it should be the sole determinant of victory.

[Stormin]

Okay, to restate my position just so everyone is clear.

First one, I am of the opinion that point value has less to do with the appearance and size of a vessel than the details such as tech level, style of the builders, manuverability and crews level of training and competence. A 100 point 5km battleship is equal to a 100point superfighter that can phase cloak or cast a blink spell to avoid being hit most of the time.

Second, in any single battle the effective point value of the forces deployed will(should) have the greatest determining factor in the outcome. Factors such as luck and surprise should be considered but the longer the battle lasts the more it evens out.

Now, if one of the mods or people running this STGOD disagrees with me on these I will conceed but lets get this rules discussion done quickly and get on with the story itself.

[Adrian Laguna]

w00t! I sparked some interesting conversation!

On that note, Glimmervoid old son, you've got to get posting. All hell's coming your way, be ready.

He hasn't posted anything at all since the 3rd of March. Unlike some people (like Nephytis), it appears that he simply isn't around.

First one, I am of the opinion that point value has less to do with the appearance and size of a vessel than the details such as tech level, style of the builders, manuverability and crews level of training and competence. A 100 point 5km battleship is equal to a 100point superfighter that can phase cloak or cast a blink spell to avoid being hit most of the time.

That is one thing that I would like to not have to deal with in this STGOD. While I do appreciate variation, a tech difference so large that you need a 5km battleship to match a 20m wank-fighter is a bit much. You would end-up needing to give the wank-fighter builders an incredibly reduced industry to explain why they don't just pwn the whole cluster.

[Spyder]

That doesn't happen automatically. If someone attacks one of your ships and you respond with a post that simply says "return fire" and nothing else, it will be assumed that your ship is standing still while returning fire. When you describe the battle you do actually have to specify what your ships are doing.

I do have to say it is silly to assume that ships will not be performing at least evasive maneuvering during battle. A ship designed to be "small, super fast, lightly armed/armored" of equal point value (and comparative capability) to a hulking armored juggernaut that uses its higher defense and offense against the other ships maneuverability should result in a fight that could go either way.

You're missing the point. Yes that is what would likely happen in the encounter, however you're saying that this should all be assumed to be happening in every encounter automatically. This STGOD is about roleplay, you describe your ships and you describe what they're doing. If you do not say in your post that your ships are maneuvering in a defensive formation to minimize direct hits then your ships are not maneuvering in a defensive formation to minimize direct hits.

It doesn't take much effort to describe what sort of tactics or formations your ships are using and assuming that this happens automatically based on point values makes the entire STGOD pointless. No one would bother with this roleplay crap, we'd just assign random numbers at the start and whoever gets the biggest one would be declared the winner.

Therefore, it is my opinion that point value should determine the outcome of encounters, unless special tactics or situations are used, and the appearance of the ships should be determined by the tech level, culture and other fluff of the race that built it.

"Oh yeah, well take this... SIX!"
"Ten."
"...Fuck"

Also, having point values dictate training and competence makes no sense because a 100 point dreadnought isn't necessarily going to have a more competent crew then a 4 point frigate.

But a ship of equal size, design, technology etc but with one having a much better trained crew would be more effective and cost more resources resulting in a higher point value.
I am not talking anything game effecting it is simply background and fluff, a way to flesh out the story. Race A is super high tech and makes a bunch of 100 point warships with mass produced crews from Alabama would be just as effective as Race B with lesser tech building a 100 point warship that is twice the size (because of less ability to make everything smaller) and a crew that spent years in training and are among the best that race has to offer.
They both have different tech levels, far different sizes and different quality of crews (which means being able to make the most of what they have) but in terms of a 1v1 encounter they would be equal.

How is it that you think having competance and tactics being point related isn't going to effect the game? Just think about it for a second, compare these options:

Point related tactics: Points dictate everything, two players square off and whatever ship has the highest wins.

Player written tactics: Players describe their own tactics in battle, the less clever player possibly makes a mistake and the more clever player capitalises and manages to edge in a win despite having inferrior force.

[Stormin]

Makes sense then, thank you for correcting my interpretation of the rules and I conceed the point.

[Thirdfain]

More delightful exposition.

Glimmervoid, any chance of a post any time soon?

[Spyder]

We might have to NPC him if this keeps going.

[Spyder]

Sorry Glimmervoid, but Nitram and I have spoken and we need to keep the game moving.

You can come in and take over any time you like.

[Oseng]

I just joined this forum, and I was wondering if this game was still open for new players?

If it is I would like to join in.

I have an idea for a race that does nearly everything through some kind of magic, if that would be permissible.

If not, then I will just come up with a normal tech race.

[Duckie]

I just joined this forum, and I was wondering if this game was still open for new players?

If it is I would like to join in.

I have an idea for a race that does nearly everything through some kind of magic, if that would be permissible.

If not, then I will just come up with a normal tech race.

As far as I know, magic is the same idea as tech here. I'd say a better part than half of the races are "Magical" instead of "Technological", although the line blurs and they're mixed often.

[Adrian Laguna]

For some time now, I've been meaning to tweak my OOB a little. No point changes, just reshufling of names. To bring the classifications more in line with everyone elses I'm renaming my 50-pointers "battleships" and making the 100-point flagship a "dreadnaught". That leaves the question of what to call the 25-pointers. The most logical course of action would be to call the 8-pointers "missle destroyers", the 15-pointers "cruisers", and the 25-pointers "battlescruisers" or "heavy cruisers". Intead, I'm going to give standard classification the finger and call them "destroyers". Why? Because it is the option that is most aesthetically pleasing. Cruisers patrol and do recon (they cruise around), Destroyers go around and blast shit (they destroy), Frigates protect Destroyers from strike-craft (they... err...), Battleships go around and blast shit too big for the Destroyers to handle (bringin' battle to the enemy!), and Dreadnaughts are gigantic ships that look big and scary. See? It all makes perfect sense. In any case, the term "torpedo boat destroyer" never arose in Meklon, a planet without seas.

-snip-

Assuming the mods (for this game they are SirNitram, Spyder, and Pablo Sanchez) let you in:
You need to indicate the location of you nation in the local Star Cluster. Click on the tumbnail below and copy the image that comes-up into your computer. Use MS Paint or similar program to write-in your nations location. To preserve quality, save it as a 24-bit Bitmap, unless your connection sucks and you don't want to spend a long time uploading the image. Then upload the image into imageshack.net or similar service.



There are nice open spaces to the left of the Khar, between the Khar and the Hekartes, as well as to the right of the Hekartes.

You need to read, or at the very least skim, through everyone's OOB, the Diplomacy Thread, and the Main Thread.

EDIT - Whoops, outdated map.

[Thirdfain]

Tssk, tssk, Spyder. The forces you have at Shearwater could seriously pwn the 1st Battlecruiser Squadron. You will, however, get your chance to talk when the main fleet arrives.

[Dahak]

Just a diplomatic cutter, Pablo?
I feel belittled

[Duckie]

Jesus, I think I managed to have made the Khar annoying even to me with the last message.

And I love it.

[Spyder]

Tssk, tssk, Spyder. The forces you have at Shearwater could seriously pwn the 1st Battlecruiser Squadron. You will, however, get your chance to talk when the main fleet arrives.

Well that would be silly, your fine upstanding battlecruisers haven't done anything wrong.

Have pity on poor Coldrock, he's trying to learn from his mistakes. Incidentally, the voice in his head isn't as helpful as he thought it was going to be.

[Thirdfain]

As to my six light cruisers searching for other worlds in the silver Flame- How soon will they yield results?

[Spyder]

If you don't mind delaying it for a few days, it would give Glimmervoid an opportunity to retake the reigns in time to defend his homeworld.

[Thirdfain]

Fair enough. Keep in mind that there would be a not-insignificant lull between the discovery of a group of inhabited systems and the actual attack.

[Spyder]

Damn it, beat me to the space ganstas. Oh well, dibs on the rastas.

[Oseng]

I've skimmed through everyone's OOBs and the main thread, along with this one.

I'll be reading through more in depth soon.

I will have my postion up on the map either tonight or tommorow, depending on school.

My Senior English Teacher decided to give my class 3 different papers all due ASAP.

So far it looks interesting! I've got a few ideas.

[Lancer]

Hmmn, I don't suppose it's too late to tweak my OOB? It'll only affect ships that haven't been spotted or used yet, so there won't be any continuity errors within the STGOD.