RotS Force Sub: Windu in the Senate Area.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-03-24 02:44pm

After reading some of the "Did Palps throw the fight" threads it occurs to me that Windu didn't win becuase he was just that much better than Palpatine but rather that the surroundings favoured straight out lightsabre combat rather than Palpatine's over-the-top TK attacks.

So this situation occurs to me. Yoda and Windu swich roles. Windu heads off to Kashykk and Yoda stays to face Sidious went they lure him out. So the questions are thus:

1) If Yoda faces Palpatine in hi private office with Fisto, Kolar and Tin what happens?
2) Assuming Palps survives sceanrio 1 and Windu then faces him in the Senate, what happens? Does the fight still end up being a senate pod hurling match?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-03-24 02:48pm

I think they'd do worse. The reason for Mace's victory appears to be the superiority of his lightsaber style, an advantage which would be reduced if Palpatine was given room to retreat and throw things at him. Conversely, Yoda seems best able to hold his own against Sidious in a battle of force powers, and fighting in the office wouldn't play to his strengths as well.

Unless of course, Yoda got a lucky telekinetic shot in when Sidious leaps up and knocks him on his ass. This is based on the assumption, which is to my knowledge, only supported by game mechanics (Jedi Outcast), that it's harder for a force user to resist telekinesis without ground traction.

Elessar · Post by **Elessar** » 2006-03-24 03:18pm

Doesn't Sidious lose his lightsaber once they were in the Senate, retreat and then resort to flinging pods? It seems as if that Yoda won the straight-up lightsaber duel and only the ability for Sidious to start TKing gave him the victory...

For the first, since there is no way for Sidious to 'retreat' into the Senate where he has plenty more space and lots of objects to hurl, Yoda would do as well as Windu in the straight up duel... and later, perhaps survive since he doesn't antagonize Anakin as much as Windu does.

As for the second scenario, it's dependent on whether Windu can prevent Sidious from getting to the senate. The office is a really, really enclosed space where he apparently shines.

The Original Nex · Post by **The Original Nex** » 2006-03-24 04:09pm

Doesn't Sidious lose his lightsaber once they were in the Senate, retreat and then resort to flinging pods? It seems as if that Yoda won the straight-up lightsaber duel and only the ability for Sidious to start TKing gave him the victory...

Nope. He just switches over to lightning for some reason. Yoda loses his saber, not Palpy.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2006-03-24 04:16pm

Well Yoda won the lightsaber half on his duel with Sidious, and the Force using was at best a draw. The sad way Sidious sounded when he "cackled" he clearly was running out of steam, and probably would have been SOL if Yoda hadn't been unlucky enough to not have as good a position on the pod to take the recoil. Plus with things like Sidious's "

" reaction to Yoda sending a pod back at him I don't really consider his fight with Yoda a win so much as got lucky.

The novel has Yoda in mid fight realise he doesn't have it to win in a epiphany, and later get hit in mid air, possibly deliberately, and disappear. At the end of which Sidious is clearly indicated to be fatigued and proceeds to call his troopers.

Personally I'm not convinced Yoda didn't let Sidious get that first lightning blast in for some reason. Possibly to try to take him by suprise. The novel has completely different series of events so doesn't help with that.

The main reason Sidious in both novel and movie manages to take out the initial group of Jedi Masters is the same reason bog standard Clone Troopers were able to kill the same, surprise and a failure of the related Jedi to mentally adapt their paradigm fast enough. Ki-Adi-Mundi was a Jedi Council Member and we see this exact problem allowing him to be cut down by a few Clone Troopers. If it's the novel scenario, Sidious being cute with the extra lightsaber probably isn't a happening thing. Movie the little Ataru master might just hop in and take him apart while he's trying to thin the numbers. Of course, he might actually tell the other Jedi Council Members about Palps=Sidious and hopefully get them paradigm shifted before going in which means Sidious=screwed.

Mace is at a disadvantage in the arena over Yoda for the simple reason he is bigger. Of course, unlike the little Ataru master he'd probably settle things in the office, and it would never reach the Arena, which means Mace kicks his butt. With the movie version it's clear Sidious once he lost his lightsaber was not in a position where he could win, without Anakin taking off Mace's swordarm. If he fired lightning it was sent back at him, if he didn't Mace would be able to deliver a killing blow.

If Mace can hang onto his lightsaber, he should be able to go where-ever Sidious could go. So I suppose it comes down to how good he is at dodging and TK, which I can't recall any worthwhile examples of that I've seen.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-03-24 08:20pm

The novel has Yoda in mid fight realise he doesn't have it to win in a epiphany, and later get hit in mid air, possibly deliberately, and disappear. At the end of which Sidious is clearly indicated to be fatigued and proceeds to call his troopers.

Actually, I recall his epiphany being along the lines of him realizing he couldn't defeat Palpatine in the engagement.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-24 11:20pm

I think that Plapatine would have still thrown the fight if he fought versus Yoda. But Yoda would have killed him straight up, no hesitation. Anakin would have walked in just as Palpatines head was severed from his shoulders.

As for Mace vs. Palpatine in the Senate Chamber, Palpatine has greater Force powers and Mace would have probably been beaten, probably easier than Yoda was.

Adam Reynolds · Post by **Adam Reynolds** » 2006-03-25 12:13am

[quote="Cos Dashit"]I think that Plapatine would have still thrown the fight if he fought versus Yoda. But Yoda would have killed him straight up, no hesitation. Anakin would have walked in just as Palpatines head was severed from his shoulders.

As for Mace vs. Palpatine in the Senate Chamber, Palpatine has greater Force powers and Mace would have probably been beaten, probably easier than Yoda was.[/quote]

Palpatine didn't throw the fight in his office, he lost fair and square. And Mace would have probably won before force powers would be making a difference.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-03-25 01:37pm

Cos Dashit:

I think that Plapatine would have still thrown the fight if he fought versus Yoda. But Yoda would have killed him straight up, no hesitation. Anakin would have walked in just as Palpatines head was severed from his shoulders.

Huh? oh your one those...Sidious didn't throw that fight he was defeated. He just exagerated his weakness when he saw he could use gullible Anakin as a way out. If Anakin hadn't shown up or had a change of heart, he would have been a dead man

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-25 01:43pm

Spartan wrote:Cos Dashit:

I think that Plapatine would have still thrown the fight if he fought versus Yoda. But Yoda would have killed him straight up, no hesitation. Anakin would have walked in just as Palpatines head was severed from his shoulders.
Huh? oh your one those...Sidious didn't throw that fight he was defeated. He just exagerated his weakness when he saw he could use gullible Anakin as a way out. If Anakin hadn't shown up or had a change of heart, he would have been a dead man

No, I believe he did throw that fight. And it wasn't an if Anakin was coming, Palpatine knew he would.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-03-25 05:52pm

Your welcome to believe that...but canon and GL himself says you are wrong.

Yogi · Post by **Yogi** » 2006-03-28 06:55pm

Cos Dashit wrote:No, I believe he did throw that fight. And it wasn't an if Anakin was coming, Palpatine knew he would.

If Mace Windu had followed through after he disarmed Palpatine, followed through after Palpatine's lightning, or done something besides moving his arm all the way back for a massive swing (such as, I dunno, taking a step foward and stabbing) Palpatine would be missing something vital, and there wasn't anything Anakin could have done about it.

Pax Britannia · Post by **Pax Britannia** » 2006-03-29 11:55am

There's a scene in the Palps vs Windu duel that I haven't yet seen people discuss. It occurs when Windu does a massive sweap of his lightsabre and Palpatine easily ducks to avoid it and holds his sabre to Windu's chest. Windu looks down at the sabre with a sort of puzzled look then blocks and they roll into a hold where they both grimace at each other setting up the next scene......

Anyway after my clumsily attempt at a scene description the whole point I was making is that Palpatine (to me anyway) displayed his superiority over Windu and was simply prolonging the fight awaiting for Anakins arrival. Doesn't anyone else think its convenient he loses his sabre second before Anakin shows up?

Heres a pic:

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-03-29 12:43pm

Pax Britannia, the same point in the duel was also mentioned by YT300000 in a previous discussion. The simple fact of the matter is, whether or not he intended to, Darth Sidious was losing his duel with Mace Windu.

As this author has pointed out before, Sidious simply has not had occasion to handle a lightsaber in over a decade by the time of Revenge of the Sith (the only previous occasion in the EU in which he has handled one was in Episode I Journal: Darth Maul, set 16 years before; he very briefly used Maul’s lightsaber to chastise his inattentiveness). His own lightsaber, according to the novelization, “had lain, waiting, in absolute darkness – darkness beyond darkness – for decades” within the neuranium statue in his office. Although he was undoubtedly a master swordsman – he did, after all, train Maul – there can be no question that Windu had far more practical experience, and had in fact been very recently using his lightsaber under combat conditions; he was, after all, regarded as “the recognized master of the Order’s fighting techniques” according to the Revised Core Rulebook.

Furthermore, Sidious is approximately ten years older than Windu and has nothing like his level of physical fitness and exercise. Even if Sidious is a proficient martial artist – again, a relatively safe assumption judging by the fact that Maul had been trained in teräs käsi, according to Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter – he does not have Windu’s experience or practice. He is simply not physically comparable to Windu, and as a result would be obliged to expend a considerable amount of his strength in the Force to enhance his strength, speed, and agility, merely to keep pace with him; the fact that he was augmenting himself to superhuman levels means that he must have dedicated a considerable amount of his strength to that, and the novelization is quite clear that he has a finite amount of ‘Force points’ to spend.

This is to say nothing of the fact that Windu enjoys the metaphysical advantages of Vaapad and his “shatterpoint” charism. The novelization remarks that because of Windu's Vaapad style of martial art, the duel was "still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue," an "impasse" that "might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift" (Vaapad functions as a sort of superconductor of the dark side, allowing it to pass through and loop back to Sidious in order to complete the circuit).

Windu was also gifted with the charism of seeing "shatterpoints," which he described in Shatterpoint as "spots where a precise application of carefully measured force – no more than a gentle tap – will break [something] into pieces"; Windu has the ability to see "strengths and weaknesses, hidden flaws and unexpected uses," "vectors of stress that squeeze or stretch, torque or shear," or, as he himself puts it, "when I look at you through the Force, I can see where you break." Using this unique gift in his duel with Sidious, Windu found the "largest fracture" in the "knot of fault lines in the shadow's future" and found to his surprise that it was Anakin Skywalker – i.e., Windu's clairvoyance told him that the key to breaking Sidious was Skywalker, not in Sidious at all.

During their duel, Windu incorrectly believed that he was using Sidious's fear against him, driving him toward the window "where the shadow's fear made it hesitate," "turned some of its Force-powered speed into Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete, taking advantage of this distraction to disarm him (the novelization says that Windu cuts Sidious's lightsaber in half, what the language of "the earliest Jedi sages" describes as sun djem in "Fight Saber: Jedi Lightsaber Combat"); Sidious's answer to this is the dun möch taunt "Do you think the fear you feel is mine?"

Windu's empathy then revealed to him that "Palpatine was not afraid," indeed that "he wasn't worried at all." He identified Sidioius's shatterpoint – "the key to final victory," "the absolute shatterpoint of the Sith" and "the shatterpoint of the dark side itself" – as being his trust for Anakin Skywalker; this belief that Skywalker would succumb to the dark side was the Sith Lord's breaking point (if Skywalker did not do so, then Sidious of course would die). This is directly comparable to the fact that the Emperor made not the least effort to defend himself in Return of the Jedi, allowing Luke Skywalker to strike at him with his lightsaber and relying completely on Vader's reactions and loyalty; if Vader had been slower or less faithful, the Emperor would have been killed.

A propos of that thought, Mange the Swede has quoted The Making of Revenge of the Sith as saying that “the Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness.” It is therefore clear that Sidious was losing the duel, but on seeing the opportunity presented by Skywalker’s presence, gambled everything on his belief that Skywalker would save him if he appeared weak enough; thus he exaggerated how badly he was beaten. It is possible he may have allowed himself to be disarmed, but the point remains that he was betting his life that Skywalker would save him. If he did not, he would have died. He did lose, even if he did convert his loss into a gambit toward a greater victory.

PUBLIUS

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-03-29 12:58pm

Not having heard the commentary track myself (never bought the DVD

), GL allegedly comments during the scene, that "Anakin doesn't realize it, but if he hadn't acted, Palpatine would have killed Mace himself." (or something to that effect). Is this true?

Would be an interesting change of strategy, instead of playing the "weak victim" to get sympathy, he'd play the "strong victim" and use the more "powerful" dark side to vanquish an enemy of the state and convince the kid that way.

Pax Britannia, the same point in the duel was also mentioned by YT300000 in a previous discussion. The simple fact of the matter is, whether or not he intended to, Darth Sidious was losing his duel with Mace Windu.

Now, I can buy him being bested towards the end of the sabre-duel, but the early part (especially that shot, which I noticed the first time I saw the film) he was obviously in control, pushing Mace back, instead of the other way around.

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-29 01:57pm

Publius wrote:Pax Britannia, the same point in the duel was also mentioned by YT300000 in a previous discussion. The simple fact of the matter is, whether or not he intended to, Darth Sidious was losing his duel with Mace Windu.

I know George Lucas said that he lost, but...

I am going to point to an example earlier in the move: Dooku fought Anakin Skywalker, but he knew he was going to lose. And he did lose on purpose, or that was the plan.

Now Palpatine could have fought, but not to the best of his ability, and just bid his time until Anakin showed up. Sure, he lost, but it might have been in the 'lose to your kid in checkers' kind of way. You know you could beat him, but you lose anyway.

Publius wrote:Windu was also gifted with the charism of seeing "shatterpoints," which he described in Shatterpoint as "spots where a precise application of carefully measured force – no more than a gentle tap – will break [something] into pieces"; Windu has the ability to see "strengths and weaknesses, hidden flaws and unexpected uses," "vectors of stress that squeeze or stretch, torque or shear," or, as he himself puts it, "when I look at you through the Force, I can see where you break." Using this unique gift in his duel with Sidious, Windu found the "largest fracture" in the "knot of fault lines in the shadow's future" and found to his surprise that it was Anakin Skywalker – i.e., Windu's clairvoyance told him that the key to breaking Sidious was Skywalker, not in Sidious at all.

RotS novelization wrote:And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness. A black hole of the Force.

^ That was Dooku looking at Palpatine with Force-vision.

The above quote shows that Mace could have not used his shatterpoint method on Sidious during the duel. You simply cannot see him, he is a 'black hole' of the Force.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-03-29 02:01pm

Yet obviously he could since he does so in the same Novel.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-03-29 02:17pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Yet obviously he could since he does so in the same Novel.

Not to mention the simple fact that Mace's talent is unique.

I am going to point to an example earlier in the move: Dooku fought Anakin Skywalker, but he knew he was going to lose. And he did lose on purpose, or that was the plan.

No, he was planning to kill Kenobi and beat Skywalker [before converting him].
Palpatine told him that if by a fluke Skywalker won then he would save Dooku, meaning that Dooku didn't do his best to kill Anakin till near the end of the duel, when he began to use Skywalkers fear against him. (And he would have won had it not been for Palaptine's interference).

The above quote shows that Mace could have not used his shatterpoint method on Sidious during the duel. You simply cannot see him, he is a 'black hole' of the Force.

AS crazed warith said, he did see him regardless.
Windu is not Dooku Y'know

Cos Dashit · Post by **Cos Dashit** » 2006-03-29 02:46pm

DEATH wrote:
Cos Dashit wrote:I am going to point to an example earlier in the move: Dooku fought Anakin Skywalker, but he knew he was going to lose. And he did lose on purpose, or that was the plan.
No, he was planning to kill Kenobi and beat Skywalker [before converting him].
Palpatine told him that if by a fluke Skywalker won then he would save Dooku, meaning that Dooku didn't do his best to kill Anakin till near the end of the duel, when he began to use Skywalkers fear against him. (And he would have won had it not been for Palaptine's interference).

RotS Novelization wrote:Dooku derived a certain melancholy satisfaction - a pleasurably lonely contemplation of his own unrecognized greatness - from a brief reflection that Skywalker would never understand how much thought and planning, how much work, Lord Sidious had invested in so hastily orchestrating his [Anakin's] sham victory. Nor would he ever understand the artistry, the true mastery, that Dooku would wield in his own defeat.

^ Uh...

It also says that Dooku was looking forward to his capture so that he could relax for the rest of the war.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-03-29 03:05pm

Dooku was planning to be captured, not killed, Palaptine promsied to keep Anakin from killing him.
I'll have the quotes later, I only have the audiobook

.
Dooku was "holding" back for the beggining of the fight before Obi and Anakin began pressing him back badly, and he ended up fighting Anakin one on one, and forced to use his mental "bag of tricks" rather than raw force [which was insuffciient against Anakin's dark side boosted prowess]

Meest · Post by **Meest** » 2006-03-29 04:21pm

PaxBritannia wrote:Here's a pic

Can see in that shot that Palpatine is fully extended and Windu has inches of clearance. If Palps tried to actually hit Windu and misses, he would be completely open for getting his arm chopped off or worse. If you're going to be inside someone's guard you don't want to be fully extended even with something as dangerous as lightsabres.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2006-03-29 04:34pm

Cos Dashit wrote:The above quote shows that Mace could have not used his shatterpoint method on Sidious during the duel. You simply cannot see him, he is a 'black hole' of the Force.

It might interest you to know that Matthew Woodring Stover – the very same author who wrote the passage you quoted in which Darth Tyranus's Force-filtered vision identifies Darth Sidious as a 'black hole of the Force' – wrote in Shatterpoint that Mace Windu's shatterpoint charism works perfectly well vis-à-vis Palpatine of Naboo; indeed, Windu recalled that when he had watched Palpatine's inauguration as Supreme Chancellor, he had 'seen' that "Palpatine was himself a shatterpoint on which the future of the Republic – perhaps the whole galaxy – depended.."

Furthermore, immediately after CS Invisible Hand crashed into Republic City in Revenge of the Sith, Mr. Stover writes that

He [Mace Windu] had argued for the elevation of Obi-Wan Kenobi to Mastership, and to give the training of the chosen one into the hands of this new, untested Master, because his unique perception had shown him powerful lines of destiny that bound their lives together, for good or ill. On the day of Palpatine's election to the Chancellorship, he had seen that Palpatine was himself a shatterpoint of unimaginable significance: a man upon whom might depend the fate of the Republic itself.

Now he saw the three men together, and the intricate lattice of fault lines and stress fractures that bound them each to the other was so staggeringly powerful that its structure was beyond calculation.

Anakin was somehow a pivot point, the fulcrum of a lever with Obi-Wan on one side, Palpatine on the other, and the galaxy in the balance, but the dark cloud on the Force prevented his perception from reaching into the future for so much as a hint of where this might lead. The balance was already so delicate that he could not guess the outcome of any given shift: the slightest tip in any direction would generate chaotic oscillation. Anything could happen.

Anything at all.

And the lattice of fault lines that bound all three of them to each other stank of the dark side.

Pointedly, during the duel between Windu and Sidious itself, Mr. Stover writes the following:

Vaapad made him an open channel, half of a superconducting loop completed by the shadow; they became a standing wave of battle that expanded into every cubic centimeter of the Chancellor's office. There was no scrap of carpet nor shred of chair that might not at any second disintegrate in flares of red or purple; lampstands became brief shields, sliced into segments that whirled through the air; couches became terrain to be climbed for advantage or overleapt in retreat. But there was still onlyt he cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse.

Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift.

The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade psun and crackled, while his feet lsid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their onw direction, his midn slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source.

Feeling for its shatterpoint.

He foudna knot of fault lines in the shadow's future; he chose the largest fracture and followed it back to the here and the now –

And it let him, astonishingly, to a man standing frozen in the slashed-open doorway. Mace had no need to look; the presence in the Force was familiar, and was as uplifting as sunlight breaking through a thunderhead.

The chosen one was here.

Regardless of Windu's inability to perceive Palpatine's sensitivity to the Force while he was hiding, his shatterpoint charism was perfectly usable both before and during his duel with the Sith Lord. He perceived that the key to defeating him lay in his relationship with Anakin Skywalker, a point made quite forcefully in the following passage:

He [Windu] felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind –

And Palpatine was not afraid.

Mace could feel it; he wasn't worried at all.

"Destroy this traitor," the Chancellor said, his voice raised over the howl of the writhing energy that joined his hands to Mace's blade. "This was never an arrest. It's an assassination!"

That was when Mace finally understood. He had it. The key to final victory. Palpatine's shatterpoint. The absolute shatterpoint of the Sith.

The shatterpoint of the dark side itself.

Mace thought, blankly astonished, Palpatine trusts Anakin Skywalker.

Furthermore, Mr. Lucas himself states in his audio commentary on the film itself that "this sequence always started out with Mace overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber" (he also clarifies that Palpatine only "pretends to lose his power and be weak"). A propos of that thought, Mr. Lucas does not say that Sidious was going to kill Windu if Skywalker didn't; he actually says that Skywalker "didn't realize that Palpatine was going to kill him," i.e., he didn't intend for Windu to die after disarming him.

The novelization points out that Windu was aware of Skywalker's presence when the window was shattered, and that he "could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced." This is about the same time that Windu disarmed Sidious and drove him against the edge of the window, where he held him at bladepoint when Skywalker actually arrived. The Making of Revenge of the Sith states that Windu was winning and that Sidious exaggerated his weakness; Windu himself realized that Sidious wasn't in the least bit concerned, because of his supreme confidence that Skywalker would save him. In other words, Windu actually did win the duel, but Sidious quickly turned that to his advantage, transforming Windu's victory into a Pyrrhic one by his cunning. He pretended to be weak and powerless after Windu disarmed him, i.e., after the duel was over.

Incidentally, à propos of the original question, Windu would very likely fare poorly against Sidious in the well of the Senate in Yoda's place. The circumstances of their actual duel were favorable to Windu's particular strengths; there was a great deal of open space to maneuver in, yes, but there was also little to nothing of physical substance, leaving their duel a contest of swordsmanship and metaphysical resources; he was able to use Vaapad to great effect, turning Sidious's own dark strength against him. He would not, however, have that same luxury in Yoda's place, where the Emperor demonstrated quite handily that he has no hesitation whatever about using heavy objects as impromptu missiles. Windu's Pyrrhic victory in the office was due to being able to deflect all of Sidious's invisible spears and lightnings, but Vaapad would do little to deflect a Senate pod hurled with great force.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2006-03-29 08:55pm

Publius wrote:As this author has pointed out before, Sidious simply has not had occasion to handle a lightsaber in over a decade by the time of Revenge of the Sith

He presumably already is capable of creating doppleganger and he consorted with his apprentices in several possible Sith lairs - the Works, the one with Maul, the ChanPalSuRecon center, etc. He could've easily practiced there and its there presumably his duplicate black-hilted lightsaber (as opposed the electrum-plated one in the neuranium figure) was stored.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-03-30 12:05am

If Yoda is in the first fight and wins, Anakin doesn't turn to the dark side. Yoda probably wouldn't try to execute Palpatine on the spot the way Mace did and Anakin has a lot more respect for Yoda than he has for Mace.

Pax Britannia · Post by **Pax Britannia** » 2006-03-30 04:53pm

Meest wrote:
PaxBritannia wrote:Here's a pic
Can see in that shot that Palpatine is fully extended and Windu has inches of clearance. If Palps tried to actually hit Windu and misses, he would be completely open for getting his arm chopped off or worse. If you're going to be inside someone's guard you don't want to be fully extended even with something as dangerous as lightsabres.

Palpatine could have used the force to throw his lightsabre into Windus heart from that positon. He is also so close I doubt Windu would have time to react.

Anyway on the DVD Lucas says Palpatine lost fair and square so thats good enough for me. I just like to question the way these fights are shown sometimes.