Counter to this argument?

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2006-03-24 05:59pm

Sonnenburg wrote:
l33telboi wrote:Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."
I can't wait until Mace Windu shows up in the television series. After all, I don't think Lucas actually did the calculations of what would happen when he was thrown out that window, so there's no reason to assume he's dead at all. Lucas just did it because he knew it'd look cool and show the awesome power of the Emperor.

I think Lucas wanted to make it absolutly clear that Mace had died. The actor playing Mace insisted he get a good death scene and that was it.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-03-24 08:02pm

Sonnenburg wrote:
l33telboi wrote:Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."
I can't wait until Mace Windu shows up in the television series. After all, I don't think Lucas actually did the calculations of what would happen when he was thrown out that window, so there's no reason to assume he's dead at all. Lucas just did it because he knew it'd look cool and show the awesome power of the Emperor.

No problem whatsoever with bringing Mace Windu back to life in the series (it would only mean they'd have to allow "main characters"). They brought back the Emperor (multiple times), Thrawn and Boba Fett (a couple different ways!). Plus you have the most obvious examples of Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin (all within the movies they died in of course).

All you have to do is clone Mace off of his cut off hand (or whatever is left of his corpse after it hits the pavement). Stupid? Yes. Possible in-universe and with precedent? Very.

Edit: Or if it's a big deal, the loophole is that he's back and has the Force, but has lost his memory or something. And you can toss in the growth acceleration or flash memory if you want Sam Jackson back playing him. Without his memory as Mace Windu, it's like having a different character...

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2006-03-28 08:54pm

Kurgan wrote:
Sonnenburg wrote:
l33telboi wrote:Umm, I would probably be better off not saying anything at all since I'm a newbie here. But here's my ten cents on the matter.

When George Lucas created the movie he most likely didn't do calculations, no he did what he thought would look and be cool. So his train of thought while creating the death star blowing up Alderaan thingy probably went like this.

"You know what, i want to make a space station capable of blowing up an entire planet, cause that would be cool and an awsome show of force."

And later when they actually made the scene.

"So, how would you like the explosion to look?"

"Just make it go boom in a grand fashion."
I can't wait until Mace Windu shows up in the television series. After all, I don't think Lucas actually did the calculations of what would happen when he was thrown out that window, so there's no reason to assume he's dead at all. Lucas just did it because he knew it'd look cool and show the awesome power of the Emperor.
No problem whatsoever with bringing Mace Windu back to life in the series (it would only mean they'd have to allow "main characters"). They brought back the Emperor (multiple times), Thrawn and Boba Fett (a couple different ways!). Plus you have the most obvious examples of Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin (all within the movies they died in of course).

All you have to do is clone Mace off of his cut off hand (or whatever is left of his corpse after it hits the pavement). Stupid? Yes. Possible in-universe and with precedent? Very.

Edit: Or if it's a big deal, the loophole is that he's back and has the Force, but has lost his memory or something. And you can toss in the growth acceleration or flash memory if you want Sam Jackson back playing him. Without his memory as Mace Windu, it's like having a different character...

It doesn't seem plausible. The window he was tossed out of was kilometers up. Considering all the traffic in the skylanes, Mace probably got splattered by a bus or something just seconds after his swan dive out the office. If he somehow managed to avoid all the landing platforms, buildings, and ships and hit the real ground, his force would make a huge kaboom where he landed, ensuring that little or nothing could even be found of his body, let alone being near the landing point, as the hit could also be powerful enough to send body parts and gibs of flesh flying around the area, so it would be difficult to find a fingernail.

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-03-28 09:01pm

chitoryu12 wrote:It doesn't seem plausible. The window he was tossed out of was kilometers up. Considering all the traffic in the skylanes, Mace probably got splattered by a bus or something just seconds after his swan dive out the office. If he somehow managed to avoid all the landing platforms, buildings, and ships and hit the real ground, his force would make a huge kaboom where he landed, ensuring that little or nothing could even be found of his body, let alone being near the landing point, as the hit could also be powerful enough to send body parts and gibs of flesh flying around the area, so it would be difficult to find a fingernail.

How many km do you think Anakin fell in AotC when he jumped down onto the assassins speeder? Those little physics problems didn't bother Lucas Film when they were making the movie, so why would it stop them having Windu survive?

chitoryu12 · Post by **chitoryu12** » 2006-03-28 09:10pm

Lost Soal wrote:
chitoryu12 wrote:It doesn't seem plausible. The window he was tossed out of was kilometers up. Considering all the traffic in the skylanes, Mace probably got splattered by a bus or something just seconds after his swan dive out the office. If he somehow managed to avoid all the landing platforms, buildings, and ships and hit the real ground, his force would make a huge kaboom where he landed, ensuring that little or nothing could even be found of his body, let alone being near the landing point, as the hit could also be powerful enough to send body parts and gibs of flesh flying around the area, so it would be difficult to find a fingernail.
How many km do you think Anakin fell in AotC when he jumped down onto the assassins speeder? Those little physics problems didn't bother Lucas Film when they were making the movie, so why would it stop them having Windu survive?

Anakin was in control when he fell. He knew exactly when to jump to land on exactly the right speeder. Windu was most likely stunned and half-dead, so he wouldn't know that a hotrod airspeeder was coming at him until he got hit at a rather high speed. I'm not talking about whether LucasFilm will make him return from the dead. I'm saying that there probably isn't anything left for cloning material for some Imperial spy to pick up and use to clone Windu for the Empire. I'm just being realistic. What Lucas does is what Lucas wants. I have no control. I'm simply giving a real option.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-03-28 10:08pm

Lost Soal wrote:
chitoryu12 wrote:It doesn't seem plausible. The window he was tossed out of was kilometers up. Considering all the traffic in the skylanes, Mace probably got splattered by a bus or something just seconds after his swan dive out the office. If he somehow managed to avoid all the landing platforms, buildings, and ships and hit the real ground, his force would make a huge kaboom where he landed, ensuring that little or nothing could even be found of his body, let alone being near the landing point, as the hit could also be powerful enough to send body parts and gibs of flesh flying around the area, so it would be difficult to find a fingernail.
How many km do you think Anakin fell in AotC when he jumped down onto the assassins speeder? Those little physics problems didn't bother Lucas Film when they were making the movie, so why would it stop them having Windu survive?

And Obi Wan was preparing himself to die, calling on the Force to calm himself for it as he fell through the Coruscant traffic.

B5B7 · Post by **B5B7** » 2006-03-29 01:29am

This is basically the same topic as that in the OT thread on Suspension of Disbelief.
I put a reply there, so instead of putting it here also, will just provide a link to that thread:
here

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-03-29 08:02am

B5B7 wrote:This is basically the same topic as that in the OT thread on Suspension of Disbelief.
I put a reply there, so instead of putting it here also, will just provide a link to that thread:
here

While I put in a dig at Lucas Film for that scene, the basic topic is that Anikan fell multiple km onto fast moving speeder and was completely unharmed, while Obi-Wan survives the fall which the Clone Troopers believed no-one could survive. Given that, its entirely possible that Windu survived his plunge.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-03-29 08:29am

Anakin and Obi-Wan were alert, conscious, and mostly unharmed during all those falls.

Mace was missing a hand, and severely injured due to a received dose of lightning that is as strong or stronger than any other Sith lightning bout seen in the six movies. He was either unconscious when he hit the ground (ref novelization), or possibly already dead.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-03-29 10:15pm

Isolder74 wrote:I think Lucas wanted to make it absolutly clear that Mace had died. The actor playing Mace insisted he get a good death scene and that was it.

No character is actually dead until you see the body. Lucas follows this from the old Republic serials he based Star Wars and Indiana Jones on. He specifically cut Darth Maul in half because he wanted no doubt whatsoever that Maul was dead.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-03-29 11:34pm

Lord Poe wrote: No character is actually dead until you see the body. Lucas follows this from the old Republic serials he based Star Wars and Indiana Jones on. He specifically cut Darth Maul in half because he wanted no doubt whatsoever that Maul was dead.

And Maul came back ("SW:visionaries").
Frankly, it's only a matter of time until they have Mace, Mace's pupil or his vengeful ghost [yes illogical based on ep3 and Yoda's sattement] come back around the time of the new 9 book series.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-03-30 12:02am

DEATH wrote: Frankly, it's only a matter of time until they have Mace, Mace's pupil or his vengeful ghost [yes illogical based on ep3 and Yoda's sattement] come back around the time of the new 9 book series.

Yoda's statement doesn't explain how Anakin came back as a ghost in ROTJ either. Mace would be no big deal.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-03-30 12:12am

DEATH wrote:
Lord Poe wrote: No character is actually dead until you see the body. Lucas follows this from the old Republic serials he based Star Wars and Indiana Jones on. He specifically cut Darth Maul in half because he wanted no doubt whatsoever that Maul was dead.
And Maul came back ("SW:visionaries").

1) he was cloned in that story
2) It was Infinities, so it was not canon... and shit.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-03-30 03:59am

Darth Servo wrote:Yoda's statement doesn't explain how Anakin came back as a ghost in ROTJ either.

But George Lucas did.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-03-30 08:33am

I'm not saying I want it to happen, only that given what's been shown to be possible, any character can be brought back from the dead in this franchise, so long as Lucas approves it, period.

Anguirus · Post by **Anguirus** » 2006-03-30 08:42am

^ Yeah, we could also get a Star Wars musical (again) if Lucas approves it. Somehow I doubt that he will.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-03-30 10:52am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
DEATH wrote:
Lord Poe wrote: No character is actually dead until you see the body. Lucas follows this from the old Republic serials he based Star Wars and Indiana Jones on. He specifically cut Darth Maul in half because he wanted no doubt whatsoever that Maul was dead.
And Maul came back ("SW:visionaries").
1) he was cloned in that story
2) It was Infinities, so it was not canon... and shit.

1) No he wasn't, he apparently "healed" from the cut, since he had a metal lower half body [metal legs/torso].
2) There was no infinties label on it.

I think that you're thinking of the story where a mad scientist cloned Maul, who was trying to attack luke through the force before being found by Luke who turned off the tank holding the stem that was Maul. [In SW tales].

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-03-30 12:44pm

DEATH wrote:2) There was no infinties label on it.

That entire book "Visionaries" is infinities. It was labeled as such before it came out, and continues to be. And then we have Lucas' comments specifically about Maul. Which, in contrast, we do NOT about Boba Fett.

The Grim Squeaker · Post by **The Grim Squeaker** » 2006-03-30 01:00pm

Lord Poe wrote:
DEATH wrote:2) There was no infinties label on it.
That entire book "Visionaries" is infinities. It was labeled as such before it came out, and continues to be. And then we have Lucas' comments specifically about Maul. Which, in contrast, we do NOT about Boba Fett.

Hm, I was unaware of that.
I was sure that the origin of the Mandalorian/Durge+master feud was canon, still if you say so I'll take your word on it.

The Tales with the cloned Maul brain killed by Luke was released after Tales became canon and non infinity though, or am I wrong on this one also

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2006-03-30 01:14pm

Lost Soal wrote:While I put in a dig at Lucas Film for that scene, the basic topic is that Anikan fell multiple km onto fast moving speeder and was completely unharmed, while Obi-Wan survives the fall which the Clone Troopers believed no-one could survive. Given that, its entirely possible that Windu survived his plunge.

Until you read the novelization, which states quite clearly that he died.

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-03-30 02:21pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Lost Soal wrote:While I put in a dig at Lucas Film for that scene, the basic topic is that Anikan fell multiple km onto fast moving speeder and was completely unharmed, while Obi-Wan survives the fall which the Clone Troopers believed no-one could survive. Given that, its entirely possible that Windu survived his plunge.
Until you read the novelization, which states quite clearly that he died.

Fair enough.

Manus Celer Dei · Post by **Manus Celer Dei** » 2006-03-30 02:34pm

DEATH wrote: Frankly, it's only a matter of time until they have Mace, Mace's pupil or his vengeful ghost [yes illogical based on ep3 and Yoda's sattement] come back around the time of the new 9 book series.

We kinda saw that in the ESB Infinities

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-03-30 06:54pm

Hm, I was unaware of that.
I was sure that the origin of the Mandalorian/Durge+master feud was canon, still if you say so I'll take your word on it.

Those, I believe, are substantiated by other sources, and are thus canon (or at least likely retellings of events). However, the Maul bit, and a few other stories, are not.

The Tales with the cloned Maul brain killed by Luke was released after Tales became canon and non infinity though, or am I wrong on this one also

Non-canon. Darth Maul was never resurrected in any form officially as far as I know.

Darth Servo · Post by **Darth Servo** » 2006-03-30 10:42pm

Lord Poe wrote:
Darth Servo wrote:Yoda's statement doesn't explain how Anakin came back as a ghost in ROTJ either.
But George Lucas did.

Um, did I miss something? The clip showed why Lucas decided to edit Hayden into ROTJ but not how Anakin got the knowledge that Yoda and Obi-wan got from Qui-gon that brings them back as ghosts.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-03-30 10:53pm

Darth Servo wrote:Um, did I miss something? The clip showed why Lucas decided to edit Hayden into ROTJ but not how Anakin got the knowledge that Yoda and Obi-wan got from Qui-gon that brings them back as ghosts.

Oh, that. Hey, he's the chosen one, dammit!