Vaders Rage (TM)

[The Guid]

Given that Qui Gon seemed to be much more capable than Obi Wan as a father figure, rather than a brother, if he wasn't killed, I predict that Palpatine's effort at seduction would go down like this:

"You're the Sith Lord!" *Thud as Palpatine's head hits the floor*

You really think that Anakin would have been able to kill Palpatine there and then? Palpatine really does not look threatened at all by that lightsaber!

And to those who think that Vader is not angry I would like to point to the quivering nature of lines such as:
"Asteroids do not concern me Admiral." or "You have failed me for the last time Admiral..."
To me, those are the noises of an anger barely contained.

EDIT: And of course, the ultimate: "Don't make me destroy you."

[Knife]

Its debatable as to weather the Dark Side is actually evil, from what i hear.

There are 'points of view' out there that the Force has no good or evil side, that its just energy, like magnetism or light, a tool that can be drawn upon.

Now then of course there is the traditional Jedi point of view, that Dark Side=evil.

I used to agree with that whole heartedly but i've read a bunch of stuff that says it may be only one aspect of the Force and not in and of itself evil so i cant surely say anymore.

I guess you can make that opinion. The Darkside can be seen as 'chaos' rather than evil. A fundamental part of nature that is amoral and therefore not evil in and of itself. However, those acting through it or being used by it would be considered evil by most moral systems.

Viewed in this light, you can see why on occasion a Jedi could use darkside powers a bit and not be 'evil'. It would explain Luke's force choke on Tatooine. His choking the guards was drawing on chaos rather than evil. Killing them would have been evil.

If the Dark Side made Anakin this way then it has to be said the Force itself is responsible for most of this, but that assumes the Force has a 'will' of its own which may or may not be true. Otherwise the Force could have stopped Anakin or Palpatine. Its the same argument with Christianity, if you believe God does all the good things you must also accept he probably does or allows to happen all the bad things too.

As is being discussed in another thread right now; I beleive the Force is a little more far sighted than just what is happening at the moment. Palpatine is the bitter tasting pill to right the wrongs of the galaxy, with Anakin the cure for the cure.

However, to look at it from a small scale, the Force would be responsible for setting up the circumstances, all players still visibly have to make the choice to commit to the destiney layed out in front of them. This is key in just about every movie. From Luke making the choice to go to Bespin, to Luke making the choice to fling himself off the tower-thingy, to Vader making the choice to attack Palpatine or even in the prequel, Anakin making the choice to stop Windu from killing Palpatine.

The events unfold as the 'Force' intends them, but Lucus does go out of his way to show you the character making a choice.

I find it more probable that people are just evil or good on their own, and the Force is just an energy they can draw on. Some guy can use the Force for good while chucking around lightning and stuff, while another guy uses it for evil and power. In that point of view the Force is more like a gun, all by itself its harmless but in the hands of a person, for good or ill, it takes on the person's will. So if the person is evil, the Force is used for evil, if they're good then vice versa. This implies that people make their own fate without being 'corrupted' by anything.

Oi thats a long post...anyway, just something to consider that i've read from a whole bunch of places. Your milage may vary.

Your view is conterdicted by every movie. Destiney and fate seem to play a heavy role in the SW series. Yes, I just said people have to make the choice, but the Force is still setting up situations for those people to make a choice. The very concept of palpatine to sweep away the corruption and rot of the Old Republic with Anakin/Vader as the safety valve screams fate.

[MKSheppard]

As I pointed out, Yoda says it himself, when Anakin gave into Palpatine's influence, Vader was born, and took control of the body both inhabited, essentially killing Anakin and his moral core along with him.

Yoda's full of shit on that. It's a lie he and Obi-Wan want to believe to avoid the ugly truth that the Chosen One chose to massacre the Jedi Order for the Sith.

Everything that Anakin does he does willingly. What truly damned him was when he storms in and saves Palpatine from Mace Windu; it ends up with Mace being thrown out a window zapped to death.

Anakin realizes at that point he's already damned himself; but is hoping to gain some redemption at least by saving Padme; he's massacring the Jedi Temple so he can save Padme; along with the separatist leaders.

It's only when he's chopped to bits and burned up by Obi-Wan, and then loses Padme that he truly does become Vader; and its because he's truly well damned himself in futilely trying to save his wife.

He's lost everything he ever cared about
1.) His Mother
2.) Padme
3.) Obi-Wan (there really was something between them despite the friction)

The only thing he has left is Palpatine.

[Noble Ire]

As I pointed out, Yoda says it himself, when Anakin gave into Palpatine's influence, Vader was born, and took control of the body both inhabited, essentially killing Anakin and his moral core along with him.

Yoda's full of shit on that. It's a lie he and Obi-Wan want to believe to avoid the ugly truth that the Chosen One chose to massacre the Jedi Order for the Sith.

Everything that Anakin does he does willingly. What truly damned him was when he storms in and saves Palpatine from Mace Windu; it ends up with Mace being thrown out a window zapped to death.

Anakin realizes at that point he's already damned himself; but is hoping to gain some redemption at least by saving Padme; he's massacring the Jedi Temple so he can save Padme; along with the separatist leaders.

It's only when he's chopped to bits and burned up by Obi-Wan, and then loses Padme that he truly does become Vader; and its because he's truly well damned himself in futilely trying to save his wife.

He's lost everything he ever cared about
1.) His Mother
2.) Padme
3.) Obi-Wan (there really was something between them despite the friction)

The only thing he has left is Palpatine.

I really don't think so; Yoda speaks the truth, although he might not be privy to the real circumstances surrounding Anakin's fall. I will not deny that the fall itself was Anakin's fault (bred by his need for control in his own life, his over-possessiveness of those he loves, and an angry streak), as was the incident on Tatooine, and the death of Mace Windu. However, either at that point, or while he was engaged at the Temple, Anakin died. As messed up as he was, I honestly cannot see Anakin Skywalker brutally murdering younglings, murdering Padme, and attempting to kill Obi-Wan. In my mind, the most damning thing he ever did was the slaughter of the Tusken villagers.

[Surlethe]

I really don't think so; Yoda speaks the truth, although he might not be privy to the real circumstances surrounding Anakin's fall. I will not deny that the fall itself was Anakin's fault (bred by his need for control in his own life, his over-possessiveness of those he loves, and an angry streak), as was the incident on Tatooine, and the death of Mace Windu. However, either at that point, or while he was engaged at the Temple, Anakin died. As messed up as he was, I honestly cannot see Anakin Skywalker brutally murdering younglings, murdering Padme, and attempting to kill Obi-Wan. In my mind, the most damning thing he ever did was the slaughter of the Tusken villagers.

I don't see why you have to draw a distinction between "Anakin Skywalker" and "Darth Vader". They're both the same person, just as you now are the same person as when you were five. Anakin simply went through some very serious and turbulent changes which altered his personality somewhat, and completely changed his perception of the world; "Anakin dying and Vader being born" is an analogy which is used to describe the change going on in his mind, not an actual event.

[Noble Ire]

I don't see why you have to draw a distinction between "Anakin Skywalker" and "Darth Vader". They're both the same person, just as you now are the same person as when you were five. Anakin simply went through some very serious and turbulent changes which altered his personality somewhat, and completely changed his perception of the world; "Anakin dying and Vader being born" is an analogy which is used to describe the change going on in his mind, not an actual event.

You could certainly look it that way, but the fact that the changes in his personality were so dramatic and sudden (although they do tend to have lengthy buildup) does suggest that there are other powers at work, ie. the Dark Side. Anakin may very well be the same person as Vader, in different states of mind if you will, but simply lumping the accomplishments and misdeeds of both together is an over-simplification.

[Cos Dashit]

I don't see why you have to draw a distinction between "Anakin Skywalker" and "Darth Vader". They're both the same person, just as you now are the same person as when you were five. Anakin simply went through some very serious and turbulent changes which altered his personality somewhat, and completely changed his perception of the world; "Anakin dying and Vader being born" is an analogy which is used to describe the change going on in his mind, not an actual event.

I agree. The whole 'serious and turbulent changes' would definitely change someones perception. Especially if they all happened in the same day.

1. Killing an esteemed Jedi Council Member.
2. Raiding his ex-Temple and killing children (crying the whole time).
3. Killing defenseless Seperatist leaders (again crying).
4. Having his wife 'betray him', and leading him to choke her.
5. Fighting his old Master who was like a father to him.
6. Losing both legs and an arm, and then being barbecued, at the hands of his old Master.
7. Finding out he killed his wife and lost his children.

Now couple these events with the fact that, for the rest of your life, you are going to be in enormous pain? Damned right you are a changed man.

[Surlethe]

You could certainly look it that way, but the fact that the changes in his personality were so dramatic and sudden (although they do tend to have lengthy buildup) does suggest that there are other powers at work, ie. the Dark Side. Anakin may very well be the same person as Vader, in different states of mind if you will, but simply lumping the accomplishments and misdeeds of both together is an over-simplification.

Why is it an oversimplification? It's no different from lumping your activities when you were five, when you were eight, when you were fifteen, and now under the category of "Noble Ire did these things".

[Noble Ire]

You could certainly look it that way, but the fact that the changes in his personality were so dramatic and sudden (although they do tend to have lengthy buildup) does suggest that there are other powers at work, ie. the Dark Side. Anakin may very well be the same person as Vader, in different states of mind if you will, but simply lumping the accomplishments and misdeeds of both together is an over-simplification.

Why is it an oversimplification? It's no different from lumping your activities when you were five, when you were eight, when you were fifteen, and now under the category of "Noble Ire did these things".

Well, yes, as I said, you could look at it that way, justifiably. I'm simply pointing out that Dark Side corruption does contribute greatly to his deeds as Vader.

Eh, perhaps its just my bias on the subject, but I don't see how a sane, if definantely flawed, person like Anakin could make the progression from servant of the Jedi Order to slaughtering children and trying to murder his best friend in a single day. The Dark Side and Palpatine's corruption doesn't absolve Anakin of blame, but it does mitigate the circumstances of his fall somewhat.


But yeah, I do see what you are saying. Anakin and Vader are the same.

[Kurgan]

I don't think Vader can be described as "angry" in TESB. Whenever he kills, he does so calmly, coldly. In ANH, when he strangled Motti, I think he would've killed him then and there if Tarkin hadn't told him to stop. Motti was asking for it more than Ozzel and Needa were.

You can definately detect anger when he starts bitching about Ozzel being "clumsy as he is stupid" and he gets really pissed when Luke nails his shoulder in their duel. Also check his statements when he says "you are beaten, it is useless to resist." Sounds angry to me there!

In ANH when he is bitching out Leia for being a traitor, he sounds angry there too.


And anyway, Anakin had a problem long before he "became Vader." Three years earlier he's obsessing over his mother whom he's neglected, massacring women and children, obsessing over a woman for ten years who resists his attentions because their relationship would be improper, backstabbing his teacher and having temper tantrums. The guy's not cut out to be a Jedi. He's either really good at hiding what he does (this seems likely) or he gets off because they think he's the "Chosen One" (or a combination of the two). If he didn't have super powers, we might just think he was a spoiled brat. His sociopathness is worse since he's a Jedi. They have higher standards of behavior plus his lapses have greater consequences for those around him.

Just like how the Republic transitions into the Empire, I don't think we can say he was All Good Anakin one moment and then suddenly All Evil Vader the next. Sure there might be a "point of no return" (but that's still not absolute because Anakin does come back when he kills the Emperor and the Republic presumably comes back after the Empire is defeated), but you get what I'm saying...

In RotJ none of the Imperial officers really do anything choke-worthy. In fact everything seems to be going swimmingly until the Ewoks show up.

It's funny, in RoTJ, he was supposed to have one choke scene with Moff Jerjerrod. It's in the novel as some unnamed officer who blocks him in conference with the Emperor. It was used it more akin to "Who the fuck are you telling me what I can and cannot do?", and stopped when the officer told him that the order not to be disturbed came from the Emperor himself.

Yeah, or in the early script where he kills the Moff (who seems more like a Tarkin-type character without the charisma, while the commanding officer we see in ROTJ is a different character entirely).

[Eleas]

I think there's no question that the Dark Side somehow contributes to the aforementioned alteration of personality, but there's no reason mere use of the Dark Side would be the sole criterion. In fact, to me it always seemed as if the Force acted like a mirror of its weilder. Access in a calm state, and you can retain clarity; reach for it in anger, fear or frustration, and that disturbed mindset will be amplified and empowered, coloring your own perceptions and tainting your goals. That use of the Force in such a state leaves a residue, sometimes for a long time, is well established, and the act of "falling" would be when the pressure upon one's mind proves too great to handle.

In other words, by this model, Anakin's dark side would be his own negative impulses magnified, the ashes of his anger, his pain, and his defeat. It's all he has left to act upon. Much like clinical depression, he cannot drag himself away from the Dark Side, because no matter how dismal his new life is, knowing things can't get worse is a perverse sort of comfort to him.

[FOG3]

Given that Qui Gon seemed to be much more capable than Obi Wan as a father figure, rather than a brother, if he wasn't killed, I predict that Palpatine's effort at seduction would go down like this:

"You're the Sith Lord!" *Thud as Palpatine's head hits the floor*

You really think that Anakin would have been able to kill Palpatine there and then? Palpatine really does not look threatened at all by that lightsaber!

I suppose he'll pull the same trick that saved him from being picked up, slowly carried, and body slammed into the DS2 reactor core? The novelization has Mace analyzing Palp's shatterpoints, and noting the big one is his complete trust in Anakin.

I've wondered in some respects if the whole Dark Side thing can't be backtracked purely to focus mechanism. The Sith use their passion, while the Jedi assume a kind of destruction of self state. Naturally anger is one of the most powerful passions, and being a selfish scumbag tends to encourage anger or the other way around. Basically in a attempt to enhance their focus and power they modify themselves, which tends to utterly mess them up mentally. Most of it probably not being a conscious level, more often then not. Of course, we do have people on record as being more resistant, although this seems related to them being more in control and intellectual instead of acting like an irrational human being.

Personally I'm not sure I buy the Dark Sides any stronger, but it is an easier focus especially under high stress ergo "quick to join in a fight" (Yoda ESB novel). Humans naturally being lazy creatures I can see some draw just from that aspect pulling some in, not to mention an illusion of greater power from their distorted state of mind. This is just to common a Dark Sider comment/perception, and to commonly fails the are they really more powerful test to not think it part of the mind warping.

Of course, by the same measure the Jedi are probably warped some by their focus, for better or worse. The Matukai's focus is probably one of the better ones in that they encourage flexibility.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

I don't see why you have to draw a distinction between "Anakin Skywalker" and "Darth Vader". They're both the same person, just as you now are the same person as when you were five. Anakin simply went through some very serious and turbulent changes which altered his personality somewhat, and completely changed his perception of the world; "Anakin dying and Vader being born" is an analogy which is used to describe the change going on in his mind, not an actual event.

You could also say that you are not the same person as when you were five. Physically, Anakin and Vader are essentially the same being. But seriously, no one refers to the physical entities when talking about people's characters. If you and I swapped minds, the fact that your physical self hasn't changed has virtually no bearing on the fact that you have changed into me (and vice versa). Needless to say, the change that went on in Anakin/Vader's mind is an actual event and it's one that has greater relevance to the story than any "physical" ones. Padme's inability to recognize Anakin when she was speaking to Vader emphasizes that point.

[Kurgan]

So if he can change into one person, it stands to reason he can also "change back"? Or are we saying that he has two personalities at the same time with one dominant?

I just think we go to far if we say that Vader and Anakin are literally two different people (as opposed to the common metaphorical "he acts so differently in behavior, he's like a different person")... out of a desire to excuse the lie Obi-Wan tells Luke in ROTJ to retcon the contradiction introduced in ESB with ANH.

[Publius]

It is worth pointing out that Anakin Skywalker himself does not agree that Darth Vader is a different person. To quote from Revenge of the Sith:

You loved her. You will always love her. You could never will her death.

Never.

But you remember...

You remember all of it.

You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth --

And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Anakin Skywalker.

That it was all you. Is you.

Only you.

You did it.

You killed her.

Darth Vader as a separate persona was a fiction that Anakin Skywalker created, a defense mechanism he used to help cope with the emotional trauma he was experiencing. He'd just learned that his most trusted friend and father-confessor was a Sith Lord and war criminal, was having recurrent and extremely upsetting prophetic nightmares about his wife's death, and had recently participated in the murder of a Jedi Master. The creation of the Vader persona was a textbook example of a dissociative break, an attempt to disconnect himself from a situation that he was not emotionally or psychologically capable of handling.

Vader was a different part of Anakin's disintegrated ego. He was not in reality a different personality, but rather a sort of mask that allowed Anakin to pretend that he was someone else, and therefore allowed him to behave differently than he would if he were 'really' there. It is as though Anakin has created a new persona for himself on the Internet, where anonymity and impersonality allow him to behave in ways that he would never do in person. While role-playing as Vader, he can pretend that he is someone else, and can do things that Anakin Skywalker would never do. Nevertheless, once the consequences of his romp on the cyberspace of his psyche are brought to his attention, he realizes that in the end Darth Vader is a mask, a fictitious character, and that it was he and none other who had done those things.

Darth Vader is no more a different person from Anakin Skywalker than Spider-Man is a different person from Peter Parker.

[Anguirus]

^ Whoa. That's the best assessment I've read of the situation.

[CDiehl]

Anakin was a selfish, power-hungry little cuss before he swore fealty to Sidious. Remember how he complained to Padme about how Obi-Wan was holding him back, how Obi was jealous of him. He was angry because he, the almighty "Chosen One" was denied whatever he wanted to learn that the Order would not teach him. Also, remember his blather about being the greatest of all Jedi, one who could stop even Death itself. The boy was so arrogant and selfish that he complained that he was denied the power to violate the natural order.

Remember also that Palpatine was able to convince Anakin not to kill him or turn him over to the Order by offering him what he knew he wanted. Power. I think Anakin was far less concerned about saving Padme and their children than he was with the idea of him saving them, and being the hero. He knew what Palpatine was, what he did and what he was planning to do, and he was ready to let it happen, or even help him along, in order to get what he wanted. The knowledge that billions had died and suffered in a war manufactured by this man didn't matter to him a bit. The knowledge that even more would suffer under his absolute rule didn't matter either, as long as he, Anakin Skywalker, the Chosen One, got to have more power.

Let's never forget that he went to the Temple to massacre the Jedi Order, down to the younglings, knowing it was meant to be murder. Anakin knew full well that the Jedi were not traitors, and knew that the real traitor had given the orders resulting in their demise. He traded the lives of hundreds or even thousands of innocent people who loved and fought for the Republic in order to gain some perverse form of godhood. His anger and cruelty in the Temple was not outrage at the Jedi's betrayal of the Republic, but hatred unleashed on the people whom he decided had denied him his desires. I realize that this was after he joined the Sith, but it is the continuation of the selfish, arrogant power-lust he exhibited for years.

I find it the most delightful irony that after having sold his soul to the Sith for his own power and glory, and shat on the respect, friendship and love of everyone who ever cared about him, Anakin ended up the Emperor's bitch and errand boy for almost the rest of his life.

[18-Till-I-Die]

CDiehl:

Yes, taht is exactly right. Wish i could have put it that well. But i agree entirely, he was just a selfish nutcase. He was also incredibly possessive and power-mad.

And the distinction between Anakin and Vader is a misnomer that i dont know where it came from; just cause he changes his clothes and has to wear an iron lung does not mean he's a different BEING. That is a lie Yoda and Obi had to tell themselves to get by, and i think its become kind of a brain bug.

[Cykeisme]

CDiehl puts it very well, especially regarding the temple massacre.

His motivation to kill so many innocent Jedi- to save Padme- is more accurately described as his wanting to be the one who saves her. That, and the observation of his already existent negativity about the Jedi Order as a whole- his idea that they're trying to hold him back.

Combine the two, and his decision to commit the atrocity doesn't seem unusual at all.


I'm still not certain whether not he believed Palpatine's claim that the Jedi really were traitors. He might have been crazy enough to believe it, when he already believed they were always stifling his power deliberately.. and that the Jedi were power hungry and selfish.

[CDiehl]

I'm still not certain whether not he believed Palpatine's claim that the Jedi really were traitors. He might have been crazy enough to believe it, when he already believed they were always stifling his power deliberately.. and that the Jedi were power hungry and selfish.

That is a tough question. On one hand, Palpatine could easily convince Anakin that his distrust of the Jedi was an example of how perceptive he is, and that their habit of holding him back was an effort to manipulate him for their ends. Combined with their manuevering against Palpatine after finding out he was a Sith Lord, he could be convinced they were making a power grab that had to be stopped. On the other hand, considering that he knew why Windu went to Palpatine's office, and that at the time he was on the Jedi Council and would know of their plans, it's hard to believe that he'd legitimately think they wanted power for themselves.

Either way, I find it incredibly unlikely that Anakin would imagine the padawans and younglings were in on any conspiracy against the Republic, but he still killed them in cold blood, which kind of ruins any thought that he was duped into thinking he was acting against traitors. Were that the case, might he have suggested to Palpatine that the padawans and younglings could be left alive and reformed to serve the Republic/Empire?

[Cos Dashit]

And the distinction between Anakin and Vader is a misnomer that i dont know where it came from; just cause he changes his clothes and has to wear an iron lung does not mean he's a different BEING. That is a lie Yoda and Obi had to tell themselves to get by, and i think its become kind of a brain bug.

Saying that he 'just changed his clothes and wore and iron lung' is an oversimplification. The novel expands on what he is feeling; he feels that he is on the sand bank on Mustafar forever, that the pain never stops. He cannot control his breathing, he feels that another person speaks for him, and doesn't truly 'hear' anything. He is very distressed. The novel states that as he is destroying the machinery in the surgery room, he is feeling detached and is merely 'watching' it happen.

The biggest thing though, is how his relationship with the Force changed. He remembers feeling it, and his ability with it, but states again in the novel that it is now only a memory, that it is something he can never do again.

As for Yoda and Obi-Wan saying he was a different being: Yoda believed it completely. As for Obi-Wan, he was having trouble with it. He couldn't kill him for example, "You were like a brother to me!", and Padme strengthened his disbelief by saying that there was still good in him.

[18-Till-I-Die]

And the distinction between Anakin and Vader is a misnomer that i dont know where it came from; just cause he changes his clothes and has to wear an iron lung does not mean he's a different BEING. That is a lie Yoda and Obi had to tell themselves to get by, and i think its become kind of a brain bug.

Saying that he 'just changed his clothes and wore and iron lung' is an oversimplification. The novel expands on what he is feeling; he feels that he is on the sand bank on Mustafar forever, that the pain never stops. He cannot control his breathing, he feels that another person speaks for him, and doesn't truly 'hear' anything. He is very distressed. The novel states that as he is destroying the machinery in the surgery room, he is feeling detached and is merely 'watching' it happen.

Well, simply that he's been very badly injured and is suffering from the problems that, as i understand it, most people who loose limbs and use of limbs suffer from (numbness, 'phantom limb', depression and so on) does not mean he's transformed into another person, which is what the brain bug wuould have you believe. Anakin is still Anakin, he is still the exact same person he always was. At the risk of sounding cold hearted, he's feeling depressed...boo-frickin'-hoo, i'm SO sympathetic Ani, cry me a personal lake so i can go swimming. Its most likely a great deal of guilt, assuming he can feel guilt, that makes him so despressed. Buyers remorse. Well he wanted power and authority and now he has it, but he doesnt like the trade off. Too bad. Anakin is still Anakin, that he's now angry and despressed and bitter and suffering great physical pain is not relevent to him being or not being Anakin Skywalker.

The biggest thing though, is how his relationship with the Force changed. He remembers feeling it, and his ability with it, but states again in the novel that it is now only a memory, that it is something he can never do again.

Again, his own doing. His own arrogance and greed. But that doesnt mean he has become or transformed into another being with a different mind and different morals. This is Anakin Skywalker, just injured, bitter and reaping what he wrought.

As for Yoda and Obi-Wan saying he was a different being: Yoda believed it completely. As for Obi-Wan, he was having trouble with it. He couldn't kill him for example, "You were like a brother to me!", and Padme strengthened his disbelief by saying that there was still good in him.

Maybe but it's clear that Obi later convinced himself of this. More so, Yoda did as well. They believed in Anakin they believed in the 'prophecy' they couldnt admit to themselves that it was all a lie, that the Jedi Messiah was the Sith'ari, their whole religion was crumbling into dust, their faith, everything they've ever believed and felt and loved was being proven either wrong or horribly misunderstood. And they had to handle it somehow.

So, being a monastic order, they effectively excommunicated Anakin. In their minds anyway.

[jegs2]

Darth Vader as a separate persona was a fiction that Anakin Skywalker created, a defense mechanism he used to help cope with the emotional trauma he was experiencing. He'd just learned that his most trusted friend and father-confessor was a Sith Lord and war criminal, was having recurrent and extremely upsetting prophetic nightmares about his wife's death, and had recently participated in the murder of a Jedi Master. The creation of the Vader persona was a textbook example of a dissociative break, an attempt to disconnect himself from a situation that he was not emotionally or psychologically capable of handling.

Vader was a different part of Anakin's disintegrated ego. He was not in reality a different personality, but rather a sort of mask that allowed Anakin to pretend that he was someone else, and therefore allowed him to behave differently than he would if he were 'really' there. It is as though Anakin has created a new persona for himself on the Internet, where anonymity and impersonality allow him to behave in ways that he would never do in person. While role-playing as Vader, he can pretend that he is someone else, and can do things that Anakin Skywalker would never do. Nevertheless, once the consequences of his romp on the cyberspace of his psyche are brought to his attention, he realizes that in the end Darth Vader is a mask, a fictitious character, and that it was he and none other who had done those things.

Darth Vader is no more a different person from Anakin Skywalker than Spider-Man is a different person from Peter Parker.

I concur with that. Your analogy of the internet troll hiding behind relative anonymity paints a good picture - easy to comprehend. Few knew who Vader really was.