Adios, Amigo (Mal and summary executions)

[Zero]

You call ethics and morality emotional bullshit?

I call applying ethics and morality to only one side of a conflict emotional bullshit. You won't accept a method that will stop illegal immigration because it will take American citizenship away from children that should never have legally had it, but you refuse to consider the American children forced into poverty because of illegal competition in local labor markets and depressed local economies.

No, I consider them too, I just think some people having less money isn't worth slaughtering thousands of people each year. You're the one only valuing Americans here, not me. You're the one applying a double standard of thinking that the individual illegal immigrants negligible negative effect on the US economy is worth capital punishment. Should we shoot shoplifters, too?

[Mal_Reynolds]

You call ethics and morality emotional bullshit?

I call applying ethics and morality to only one side of a conflict emotional bullshit. You won't accept a method that will stop illegal immigration because it will take American citizenship away from children that should never have legally had it, but you refuse to consider the American children forced into poverty because of illegal competition in local labor markets and depressed local economies.

Sins Of The Father stay with the Father. That is a basic legal reality of the 1st world.

You can't keep receiving fraudulent benefits just because someone else committed the fraud for youl; that's another one.

Furthermore, it is a basic economic reality that creating an underclass that is uneducated, without citizens rights, and soforth, will depress the economy far more and lead to sporadic rioting; see France.

And that underclass is exactly what illegal aliens comprise, dumbass.

In other words, you're bullshitting. Again. Enjoy the Hall, bigot.

I'm not the bigot here, except for being bigoted against criminals. Unless you think criminals should never face punishment, you're no more, no less, no different a bigot than I am.

[Mal_Reynolds]

You call ethics and morality emotional bullshit?

I call applying ethics and morality to only one side of a conflict emotional bullshit. You won't accept a method that will stop illegal immigration because it will take American citizenship away from children that should never have legally had it, but you refuse to consider the American children forced into poverty because of illegal competition in local labor markets and depressed local economies.

No, I consider them too, I just think some people having less money isn't worth slaughtering thousands of people each year. You're the one only valuing Americans here, not me. You're the one applying a double standard of thinking that the individual illegal immigrants negligible negative effect on the US economy is worth capital punishment. Should we shoot shoplifters, too?

No, but neither should we say, "Okay, you can shoplift for six years and then you have to stop." Or just walk them out of the store. Over. And over. And over. And over. And over again.

[SirNitram]

I call applying ethics and morality to only one side of a conflict emotional bullshit. You won't accept a method that will stop illegal immigration because it will take American citizenship away from children that should never have legally had it, but you refuse to consider the American children forced into poverty because of illegal competition in local labor markets and depressed local economies.

Sins Of The Father stay with the Father. That is a basic legal reality of the 1st world.

You can't keep receiving fraudulent benefits just because someone else committed the fraud for youl; that's another one.

There is no fraud necessary to become an American Citizen. Happenstance and geography do it.

Furthermore, it is a basic economic reality that creating an underclass that is uneducated, without citizens rights, and soforth, will depress the economy far more and lead to sporadic rioting; see France.

And that underclass is exactly what illegal aliens comprise, dumbass.

You're illiterate, I see. The circumstances are vastly different, but you are willfully blind.

In other words, you're bullshitting. Again. Enjoy the Hall, bigot.

I'm not the bigot here, except for being bigoted against criminals. Unless you think criminals should never face punishment, you're no more, no less, no different a bigot than I am.

Negative, sparky. You're the one advocating the Death Penalty for something that doesn't even register jailtime. You're the one claiming the Constitution suddenly doesn't apply to anyone you don't want it to. You are the bigot, and you are advocating murder.

[Stravo]

I'm not the bigot here, except for being bigoted against criminals. Unless you think criminals should never face punishment, you're no more, no less, no different a bigot than I am.

That's just it asshole. You're advocating death as a punishment and you have yet to address how the punishment fits the crime. Even with your twisted as fuck (false) anaology of a rapist caught in the act death is not warranted. How is death warranted by illegally immigrating here? You have not fucking answered that question.

You advocate killing children, sick and elderly as well and you have the motherfucking gall to quote Seneca and virtue?

Think about that as you chew on some nice cheap juicy produce that some illegal picked for you asshole so that his kid could fucking eat and have a shot at a decent life.

[Master of Ossus]

Hold on. Hold on.

[SirNitram]

Ossus, I suggest a templock to prevent it from spiralling on while you split/merge.

[Master of Ossus]

Ossus, I suggest a templock to prevent it from spiralling on while you split/merge.

Sorry, I hadn't realized everyone was still going at it.

As I was saying, I have attempted to expunge Mal's arguments from the original thread.

[Darth Lucifer]

The essense of Fuckwit Reynolds argument: THEY TOOK OUR JOBS!

Fracking Goobacks!

[Mal_Reynolds]

Mal, if I were you I would just stop talking. Of course, if I were you then you wouldn't be in this awkward position in which your hopelessly immoral reasoning has trapped you in a box of your own device. Welcome to the HoS.

As Seneca said, "There is no virtue else than right reason."

So how's it feel declaring yourself without any virtue at all? Do you think you look clever with trite quotes to pretend you have logic on your side?

Demonstrate that I don't have logic on my side, son. If I've committed a fallacy, point it out.

[SirNitram]

Demonstrate that I don't have logic on my side, son. If I've committed a fallacy, point it out.

False Analogy Fallacy is the most obvious fallacy. Of course, Outright Lies aren't fallacious, but you've had some of them there too.

[Mal_Reynolds]

I'm not the bigot here, except for being bigoted against criminals. Unless you think criminals should never face punishment, you're no more, no less, no different a bigot than I am.

That's just it asshole. You're advocating death as a punishment and you have yet to address how the punishment fits the crime. Even with your twisted as fuck (false) anaology of a rapist caught in the act death is not warranted. How is death warranted by illegally immigrating here? You have not fucking answered that question.

You advocate killing children, sick and elderly as well and you have the motherfucking gall to quote Seneca and virtue?

Think about that as you chew on some nice cheap juicy produce that some illegal picked for you asshole so that his kid could fucking eat and have a shot at a decent life.

You know, this "shot at a decent life" bullshit has worn right through to the nothing. Why do you people insist on ignoring the fact that they can come here legally, and simply don't?

[Mal_Reynolds]

Demonstrate that I don't have logic on my side, son. If I've committed a fallacy, point it out.

False Analogy Fallacy is the most obvious fallacy.

Falsify the analogy.

Of course, Outright Lies aren't fallacious, but you've had some of them there too.

Name them.

[SirNitram]

You know, this "shot at a decent life" bullshit has worn right through to the nothing. Why do you people insist on ignoring the fact that they can come here legally, and simply don't?

Bigotry is always born of ignorance. In this case, your ignorance is on immigration. The INS will work day and night, pulling overtime, to fuck over legal, employed individuals attempting to enter from 1st world countries with strong treaties and alliance with the United States. They will even work hard to bog you down to renew your legal paperwork after 15 years without any incident.

The idea that they could simply come legally is a flat out pipedream.

[SirNitram]

Demonstrate that I don't have logic on my side, son. If I've committed a fallacy, point it out.

False Analogy Fallacy is the most obvious fallacy.

Falsify the analogy.

Your rape analogy fails because there is no possible similarity between illegal immigration and rape.

Your shoplifting analogy fails because there is no way to legally justify homicide due to shoplifting.

Of course, Outright Lies aren't fallacious, but you've had some of them there too.

Name them.

'The Constitution is for Americans'.

[Mal_Reynolds]

You know, this "shot at a decent life" bullshit has worn right through to the nothing. Why do you people insist on ignoring the fact that they can come here legally, and simply don't?

Bigotry is always born of ignorance. In this case, your ignorance is on immigration.

Let's examine ignorance, then

ig·no·rance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

It seems to me I'm better informed on this subject than you are. But let's test that.

The idea that they could simply come legally is a flat out pipedream.

The U.S. Census Bureau defines "immigrants" as "legal permanent residents." How many Mexican immigrants (by the USCB's definition) were there in one year alone?

About one in every five immigrants who obtained legal permanent resident status in 2002 was from Mexico.

From the same page:

According to the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services, 1.1 million persons obtained legal permanent residence status in 2002. Over 219,000, or 21 percent, were from Mexico.

219,000 came here legally in just one year. That's a hell of a pipe dream, ain't it?

Next?

[Plekhanov]

Omigod, Mexican soldiers have done something wrong, which their government officially denies supporting? Quick, declare war! After all, no American soldier has ever done anything wrong which their government officially denies supporting.

Oh, you know what? You're absolutely right. We really should use reductionism to strip away the context.

As far as I know, you can deny supporting an isolated incursion every now and then. These aren't every now and then -- more than 200 in approximately ten years on the part of a military with modern navigational equipment is just a touch hard to call accidental, and there's no way in hell Mexican military just "accidentally" shot at our Border Patrol personnel.

But then, I suppose no one here thinks Israel should have ever exercised force to protect their civilians from Palestinian terrorists, either.

Odd that you'd bring up Israel's use of force to protect its citizens to try and back up your arguments, as by your reasoning the Palestinians would be well within their rights to kill Israelis who have afterall invaded their land, or is it only justified to kill unwanted immigrants with brown skin?

[SirNitram]

You know, this "shot at a decent life" bullshit has worn right through to the nothing. Why do you people insist on ignoring the fact that they can come here legally, and simply don't?

Bigotry is always born of ignorance. In this case, your ignorance is on immigration.

Let's examine ignorance, then

ig·no·rance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

It seems to me I'm better informed on this subject than you are. But let's test that.

Oh yes. Please. Let's see your real-world experience with the INS....

<Snip Irrelevent Statistics>
Next?

How about, next, you tackle the meat of my post, instead of sidestepping, little boy?

[Mal_Reynolds]

False Analogy Fallacy is the most obvious fallacy.

Falsify the analogy.

Your rape analogy fails because there is no possible similarity between illegal immigration and rape.

Violation of space. Assault via illegal seizure and use of another's property. Long-term negative effects extant from said assault. There are similarities you simply refuse to acknowledge.

Your shoplifting analogy fails because there is no way to legally justify homicide due to shoplifting.

Homicide wasn't introduced into the analogy -- you've falsified it only through strawman.

Of course, Outright Lies aren't fallacious, but you've had some of them there too.

Name them.

'The Constitution is for Americans'.

All right, after some further research, that I'll grant you. They get a trial first, and if found guilty of being present in U.S. territory illegally, they get deported. If convicted a second time they're executed. Does that suit you?

[Darth Lucifer]

Buddy, do you even have any idea of the kind of red tape permeating INS? Or how many dollars in fees one has to pay during the naturalization process? Or how much immigration lawyers cost? Do you think the average illegal can afford all this???

I'll say it again: [/b]Pot. Kettle.[/b] Figure out the rest for yourself.

[Mal_Reynolds]

Bigotry is always born of ignorance. In this case, your ignorance is on immigration.

Let's examine ignorance, then

ig·no·rance ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gnr-ns)
n.
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

It seems to me I'm better informed on this subject than you are. But let's test that.

Oh yes. Please. Let's see your real-world experience with the INS....

<Snip Irrelevent Statistics>
Next?

How about, next, you tackle the meat of my post, instead of sidestepping, little boy?

I have, and you simply <snipped> it. You want to talk to me about sidestepping again?

[Mal_Reynolds]

Buddy, do you even have any idea of the kind of red tape permeating INS? Or how many dollars in fees one has to pay during the naturalization process? Or how much immigration lawyers cost? Do you think the average illegal can afford all this???

219,000 of them did in one year alone.

I'll say it again: [/b]Pot. Kettle.[/b] Figure out the rest for yourself.

How does PKB apply here?

[Zero]

I call applying ethics and morality to only one side of a conflict emotional bullshit. You won't accept a method that will stop illegal immigration because it will take American citizenship away from children that should never have legally had it, but you refuse to consider the American children forced into poverty because of illegal competition in local labor markets and depressed local economies.

No, I consider them too, I just think some people having less money isn't worth slaughtering thousands of people each year. You're the one only valuing Americans here, not me. You're the one applying a double standard of thinking that the individual illegal immigrants negligible negative effect on the US economy is worth capital punishment. Should we shoot shoplifters, too?

No, but neither should we say, "Okay, you can shoplift for six years and then you have to stop." Or just walk them out of the store. Over. And over. And over. And over. And over again.

So if someone does shoplift for six years, do you advocate the death penalty?

[Mal_Reynolds]

No, I consider them too, I just think some people having less money isn't worth slaughtering thousands of people each year. You're the one only valuing Americans here, not me. You're the one applying a double standard of thinking that the individual illegal immigrants negligible negative effect on the US economy is worth capital punishment. Should we shoot shoplifters, too?

No, but neither should we say, "Okay, you can shoplift for six years and then you have to stop." Or just walk them out of the store. Over. And over. And over. And over. And over again.

So if someone does shoplift for six years, do you advocate the death penalty?

Same strawman -- do you expect a different result? If someone shoplifts consistently for six years, I expect an effective sentence, which in this case would equate significant jail time.

For a country that has either permitted or assisted illegal occupation of another country for decades, I would expect military response.

[SirNitram]

Falsify the analogy.

Your rape analogy fails because there is no possible similarity between illegal immigration and rape.

Violation of space. Assault via illegal seizure and use of another's property. Long-term negative effects extant from said assault. There are similarities you simply refuse to acknowledge.

These similarities are not acknowledged by any legal professional or politician. You may now blow it out your ass.

Your shoplifting analogy fails because there is no way to legally justify homicide due to shoplifting.

Homicide wasn't introduced into the analogy -- you've falsified it only through strawman.

Negative. You justify your 'Execute on the second run' bullshit through this analogy. Try again.

Name them.

'The Constitution is for Americans'.

All right, after some further research, that I'll grant you. They get a trial first, and if found guilty of being present in U.S. territory illegally, they get deported. If convicted a second time they're executed. Does that suit you?

Nope. Execution is not merited for this offense. You must supply proof it is.