Relieve Picard of his command?

[Lord Pounder]

I said he was a yellow bastard, and he is.

The whole Soren situation could have been solved like this.

"Mr. Worf full spread of torpedoes in Soren's location Then use all phasers to punch a hole in that BoP and transport Geordi outta there, then you can have some fun an kill the BoP at your conviencance."

Same with any other hostile situation

"Hail them work"

"Sir the <insert racename here> ship is attacking us"

"Hail them again tell them out intentions are honourable"

"Sir shields down to 75%"

"very well Work target their weapins array"

"Weapons Disbaled sir"

"Open hailing frequencies. This is picard of the Enterprise that was very rude.......blah blah blah"

that is yellow. If i was a captin of anything and some fecker took a shot at me i'd blow a hole in his ass and wait for him to come begging me.

[TheDarkling]

Darth Pounder: They didn't know the location of the missile or the mad scientist linked to it.

No being yellow would be running away at the fiirst sign of aliens or a fire fight, Picard often puts his life on the line for his ideals/crew/fish these are not the actions of a yellow man.

[neoolong]

E-D: He wasn't even ON the ship, so how can he be blamed for Rikers stupidity? He was on that planet trying to prevent a madman from destroying an entire star system with millions of people in it. Also, I always figured the Faragut might have destroyed the saucer section before leaving.

Yeah, but who let the stupid guy take command of the ship? Picard.

Who would you have wanted to take command? Data, who was still trying to gain control over that emotion chip of his? Besides, it's the chain of command.

There is nobody else really. If Riker was not qualified, it is Starfleet's fault. However, it is also Picard's fault for not realizing after serving together that he shouldn't be left in charge. So it's everybody's fault at least partially.

[Uraniun235]

"Mr. Worf full spread of torpedoes in Soren's location Then use all phasers to punch a hole in that BoP and transport Geordi outta there, then you can have some fun an kill the BoP at your conviencance."

You know, if you didn't even watch the movie, the least you could do is not try to argue about it.

There is nobody else really. If Riker was not qualified, it is Starfleet's fault. However, it is also Picard's fault for not realizing after serving together that he shouldn't be left in charge. So it's everybody's fault at least partially.

But what Riker did was contradictory with "The Survivors", where he ordered weapons fire and the Enterprise salvoed 6 torpedos in under 2 seconds. How could Picard know that Riker would turn stupid just because the shields were rendered ineffective?.

[neoolong]

There is nobody else really. If Riker was not qualified, it is Starfleet's fault. However, it is also Picard's fault for not realizing after serving together that he shouldn't be left in charge. So it's everybody's fault at least partially.

But what Riker did was contradictory with "The Survivors", where he ordered weapons fire and the Enterprise salvoed 6 torpedos in under 2 seconds. How could Picard know that Riker would turn stupid just because the shields were rendered ineffective?.

Because of more bad writing. Duh. It's hard to judge characters when their competence is constantly being shifted around.

[Lord Pounder]

Darth Pounder: They didn't know the location of the missile or the mad scientist linked to it.

No being yellow would be running away at the fiirst sign of aliens or a fire fight, Picard often puts his life on the line for his ideals/crew/fish these are not the actions of a yellow man.

So the Enterprise didn't have sensors?

[TheDarkling]

Technobabble sensor blocking energy field , Duh.

[SpyderGS]

It's not Starfleet's fault Riker is 1st officer of the Enterprise. Picard writes his evaluations and should have relieved him before this ever happened.

[Ted C]

Picard and Riker did handle that situation foolishly, IMO.

Picard already knew that timing was critical to Soren's plan; he had to destroy the star at just the right time to change the rift-things course so that it passed through the planet at his location.

Consequently, taking care of Lursa and Betor's BOP first should not have been a problem.

Then they could settle down to the task of putting the Enterprise into the optimum position to intercept Soren's missile, deploying some armed shuttles for backup, and applying all that sensor technology on their ship to the problem of determining Soren's location.

[TheDarkling]

It was risky though Soran's missile would reach the star in 13 seconds (hmmm warp missile? how did the Enterprise intend to shoot it down - either torps or phasers fired into warp from a non warp platfrom interesting...) therefore trying what Picard did was a good way to go (although taking care of the bop would have been a good idea).

[Uraniun235]

Picard and Riker did handle that situation foolishly, IMO.

Picard already knew that timing was critical to Soren's plan; he had to destroy the star at just the right time to change the rift-things course so that it passed through the planet at his location.

Consequently, taking care of Lursa and Betor's BOP first should not have been a problem.

Then they could settle down to the task of putting the Enterprise into the optimum position to intercept Soren's missile, deploying some armed shuttles for backup, and applying all that sensor technology on their ship to the problem of determining Soren's location.

They could have done that even with the BOP there. Without Geordi's inadvertant recon, Lursa and Betor would have bit it the moment they fired on the Enterprise.

You're also forgetting that they still had Geordi hostage, and you're assuming they had armed shuttlecraft (or that said shuttlecraft would have the ability to hit the missile).

It was risky though Soran's missile would reach the star in 13 seconds (hmmm warp missile? how did the Enterprise intend to shoot it down - either torps or phasers fired into warp from a non warp platfrom interesting...)

Seems more likely to me that the writers just made up all the numbers on the spot. The movie has serious problems with logic. How did the star explode so quickly? How did Picard and Soren see the explosion so quickly? (since Earth is several light-minutes away from the Sun, and a habitable planet would likely be in the light-minute range from a star) Why didn't Picard go back to when the Enterprise was at Amargosa, when he could have prevented the destruction of the Amargosa star as well? Whatever happened to Scotty's cry of "I bet Jim Kirk himself pulled the Enterprise out of mothballs!"? Why did Riker putz around with technobabble shit when he could have ordered a full frontal salvo and blasted the Klingons to hell even with the Enterprise shields down? Why didn't they eject the warp core? Why weren't there *any* technicians aboard the E-B on it's shakedown cruise to perform the deflector modifications when a) they would need to be on hand to record and attempt to diagnose problems on the cruise, and b) they would probably be more qualified to perform such a modification than a retired starship captain?

People have written better fanfics than this.

[TheDarkling]

I can explain the Scotty thing - in one of Shatners books he explains that Scotty never believed Kirk was killed since he saw that the people in the energy ribbon were phasing in and out or existence he went back and scanned space and found no trace of kirk so he assumed kirk had been sucked in.

On the other issues.... B&B.

[Jason von Evil]

Also, if StarFleet court martialed every Captain that lost a ship, they would've ran out of Captains during the Dominion War.

[Andras]

Who would you have wanted to take command? Data, who was still trying to gain control over that emotion chip of his? Besides, it's the chain of command.

There is nobody else really. If Riker was not qualified, it is Starfleet's fault. However, it is also Picard's fault for not realizing after serving together that he shouldn't be left in charge. So it's everybody's fault at least partially.

Another failing for SF then, in TOS, practically the entire bridge crew and Scotty had command of the Ent at various times. No-one in TNG seemed to have the ability to fill in at a moments notice except for Riker.

[TheDarkling]

Andras: Riker was 2nd in command meaning if Picard wasn't there he was in command.

That being said Picard,Riker,Data, Geordi, Crusher and Troi have all commanded the ship at one time or another infact the only main character I can't remember being in charge of the ship is worf.

[Xon]

It was risky though Soran's missile would reach the star in 13 seconds (hmmm warp missile? how did the Enterprise intend to shoot it down - either torps or phasers fired into warp from a non warp platfrom interesting...) therefore trying what Picard did was a good way to go (although taking care of the bop would have been a good idea).

Simple, upt the ship between the star & the planet. The ship automaticly should be able to see anythignt hat goes form the planet to the ship.

Also use the f*cking seperation mode + lauch every shuttle they have. That way they would have multipule independant weapons platforms. The runabouts can go at warp so they can chase down the missile or worse just warp ram it.

[Xon]

Oops, type a bit too fast.

The first paragraph should read:
[quote"]
Simple, move the ship between the star & the planet. The ship automaticly should be able to see anything that goes from the planet to the ship.
[/quote]

[Ted C]

On an unrelated note, why was Soren such an idiot with the whole "destroy a star so the rift will pass through a planet where I'm standing" schtick. Events at the beginning of the movie indicate that he could have accomplished his goal easily simply by flying a shuttle into the rift.

[Jason von Evil]

Uh...no, if he attempted that, those energy lightning bolts would've destroyed the shuttle, even Data stated that in movie.

[Lord Pounder]

To get back on topic.

The Enterprise couldn't have launched armed shuttles to get close to the sun and maybe use them to shoot the missile down?

[Ted C]

Uh...no, if he attempted that, those energy lightning bolts would've destroyed the shuttle, even Data stated that in movie.

So? Kirk was hit by one of those energy lightning bolts, and he ended up in the Happy Realm.

Really, it was obvious to me from the opening sequence that Soren didn't need all of that "trilithium torpedo" nonsense to get what he wanted; he just needed a ship (a fairly sturdy one if you want to assume that a shuttle couldn't get close enough). The entire premise of that movie was absurd.

On the original topic, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that the "Federation flagship" has at least a few armed shuttles. Even the shuttlepods of the NX-01 were armed, so the NCC-1701-D's shuttles ought to have had something.