Culture vs SW scenario

[Shinova]

Back on topic:


Culture wins, no matter how many people SW has--and everything Admiral Valdemar has said is true (except for where he understated things).

And everything that's been said here about the Culture comes from the novels, which have a capability of accuracy beyond that of movies and TV, in my opinion.

Necronlord is a Horseman. Yet, I have to say that I've never ever seen a more ludicrously set up defense of SW than Necronlord's. You've never given support on why SW would be able to match Culture's combat speeds, maneuverability, shielding, trapdoor, weapons, and weapon ranges.

The only thing I see going for SW are some funky Force things, which there aren't many that can affect Culture (example: Culture outruns Force storms).



Case closed.

[NecronLord]

Back on topic:
Necronlord is a Horseman. Yet, I have to say that I've never ever seen a more ludicrously set up defense of SW than Necronlord's. You've never given support on why SW would be able to match Culture's combat speeds, maneuverability, shielding, trapdoor, weapons, and weapon ranges.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED!!

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT I ONLY SAID THE CULTRE IS OVER-RATED. SHUT THE FUCKING HELL UP AND READ MY BLOODY POSTS.

[Shinova]

Back on topic:
Necronlord is a Horseman. Yet, I have to say that I've never ever seen a more ludicrously set up defense of SW than Necronlord's. You've never given support on why SW would be able to match Culture's combat speeds, maneuverability, shielding, trapdoor, weapons, and weapon ranges.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED!!

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT I ONLY SAID THE CULTRE IS OVER-RATED. SHUT THE FUCKING HELL UP AND READ MY BLOODY POSTS.

I read your posts. And you've never said anything about how SW would beat Culture other than posting the numerical-advantage.


Is "Culture is over-rated" your only defense of SW?

[NecronLord]

Back on topic:
Necronlord is a Horseman. Yet, I have to say that I've never ever seen a more ludicrously set up defense of SW than Necronlord's. You've never given support on why SW would be able to match Culture's combat speeds, maneuverability, shielding, trapdoor, weapons, and weapon ranges.

ARE YOU FUCKING RETARDED!!

HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THAT I ONLY SAID THE CULTRE IS OVER-RATED. SHUT THE FUCKING HELL UP AND READ MY BLOODY POSTS.

I read your posts. And you've never said anything about how SW would beat Culture other than posting the numerical-advantage.


Is "Culture is over-rated" your only defense of SW?

APPARENTLY YOU ARE

My comments from Page two onwards are unrelated. Only an idiot would fail to realise that.

[Shinova]

Try posting actual figures on why SW would beat Culture.


-Culture ranges : In the light-years range. SW has Galaxy Gun, but that's not a active, combat weapon.

-Culture trapdoor: Transfers direct energy onto shields to hyperspace

-Culture shields: Can "breeze" through supernovae

-Culture weapons: Most are sent by displacers (wormhole). Or you have gridfire, which engulfs a volume of space with energy. From what I know, SW doesn't have a trapdoor system.

-So far, from what I know, SW has nothing resembling displacers. All their weapons are direct, energy/explosive/etc weapons. And as we know, Culture can transfer any non-gridfire energy to elsewhere, namely hyperspace.

-Culture ships can fire from hyperspace into realspace. Show me something from any Star Wars source that refutes this.

-Culture reaction times are, at the least, in the microseconds. SW can counter this by having AI control their ships, but they still don't have the weapons to match the Culture.


I'm sure I didn't miss anything.

[NecronLord]

Nano seconds.

GO AWAY

DO NOT RESSURECT DEAD THREADS

[Shinova]

Nano seconds.

GO AWAY

DO NOT RESSURECT DEAD THREADS

So, you've given up.

[NecronLord]

So let me get this right. Your MO is ressurect dead threads, misinterpret, Crow a lot and generally annoy people.

You are so close to being a troll.

[Shinova]

So let me get this right. Your MO is ressurect dead threads, misinterpret, Crow a lot and generally annoy people.

You are so close to being a troll.

Then close this thread.

Debate's still Culture - 1, SW - 0.

[NecronLord]

So let me get this right. Your MO is ressurect dead threads, misinterpret, Crow a lot and generally annoy people.

You are so close to being a troll.

Then close this thread.

Debate's still Culture - 1, SW - 0.

I can't.

I said that it wouldn't once. How many pages ago?

[Darth PhysBod]

I just want to point out a couple of things, but first before anyone jumps down my throat I have read Consider Phlebas, and have started reading Excession. It should be pointed out that if the sole reason you’re reading the book is for an ‘ubertech’ wankfest…well you really shouldn’t bother. Consider Phlebas has to be one of my favourite Sci Fi (novel) storylines.

All I want to point out is I think people are way underestimating the technology in SW, consider that on power generation at least, a TF core ship probably is on a par with a ‘killer’ class ROU (admittedly the latter is 200m rather than ~700m), at around about 3e24W ~1% of our sun’s output (-from "Consider Phlebas"). An Imperator on the other hand may generate as much as 8e26W (Mike’s page, from scaling of DS reactor) and we know Imperial ships can typically Divert ~20% of their power into shields.

As to survival of supernovae, well I remember a bit from Excession with the GSV thinking to itself a supernova isn’t a problem if handled correctly (where is the other example?), the question is how far from a supernova?, what was the ship doing? (i.e. was it moving) I don’t recall that being mentioned anywhere, the thing is in this vague “survive a supernova” context,an Imperator can too…

If we assume 1e46J is released from a supernova travelling outwards at c; then perhaps this may surprise some people (though really it should not) but Imperator diverting 20% of its reactor output to shields could possibly survive at Earth’s orbit:

Volume of ISD(1600x1000x300m triangular slab): 2.4e8 m^3
Spherical volume of space, radius 1AU: 1.4e34 m^3
Energy density at 1 AU: 7.1e11 J/m^3
Energy absorbed by ISD: 1.7e20J (~40 GT)

So while the shield generators may get a little warm (Peak power 3.2e28W) that’s certainly survivable. If we consider that in reality 1e46 J is the energy carried away by neutrinos and instead we should probably consider the 1e44J from the observed explosion (from the outward travelling shockwave which is ~5000Km/s for models of Red giants).

Spherical volume of space, radius 10 Ro (10x radius of sun): 1.4e30 m^3
Energy density: 7.1e13 J/m^3
Peak power (travelling 1.6Km at 5000Km/s): 2.2e17 W/m^3
Peak power absorbed by shields: 5.3e25 W.

I.e. it is quite possible that given 20% of reactor power can be directed to shields, an Imperator will survive without having to worry about its shield generators overheating at 10x radius of sun (6.96 million Km or ~23 light seconds).

All I’m trying to say is I think the analogy of ant’s next to an MBT is overstretching it.

[Shinova]

As to survival of supernovae, well I remember a bit from Excession with the GSV thinking to itself a supernova isn’t a problem if handled correctly (where is the other example?), the question is how far from a supernova?, what was the ship doing? (i.e. was it moving) I don’t recall that being mentioned anywhere, the thing is in this vague “survive a supernova” context,an Imperator can too…

All I’m trying to say is I think the analogy of ant’s next to an MBT is overstretching it.

Culture trapdoor system is said to be able to divert ALL direct energy to elsewhere--that's most likely how they breeze through supernovae.

[Connor MacLeod]

I just want to point out a couple of things, but first before anyone jumps down my throat I have read Consider Phlebas, and have started reading Excession. It should be pointed out that if the sole reason you’re reading the book is for an ‘ubertech’ wankfest…well you really shouldn’t bother. Consider Phlebas has to be one of my favourite Sci Fi (novel) storylines.

I read that one first, but I didnt like it much - although I liked it *better* than most.

All I want to point out is I think people are way underestimating the technology in SW, consider that on power generation at least, a TF core ship probably is on a par with a ‘killer’ class ROU (admittedly the latter is 200m rather than ~700m), at around about 3e24W ~1% of our sun’s output (-from "Consider Phlebas"). An Imperator on the other hand may generate as much as 8e26W (Mike’s page, from scaling of DS reactor) and we know Imperial ships can typically Divert ~20% of their power into shields.

Some points:

- the output referred to the engines alone, IIRC. The conservative estimate is that engines = total power output, but this need not neccearily be the case.

I'm not sure whether or not the Phelbas-era ROUs are representative of others, like the Killing Time in Excession.

- That's Mike's scalings.. I think they might be a couple of orders of magnitude greater than some I've seen.

The problems SW inherently faces is that some of the weaponry the Culture possesses SW has no equivalent for, and the fact that Cultuer warships fight FTL (more or less - FTL traveling weapons and can move fairly well at FTL speeds.) They have CAPABILITIES to match or mitigate some of them, but only to certain degrees.

As to survival of supernovae, well I remember a bit from Excession with the GSV thinking to itself a supernova isn’t a problem if handled correctly (where is the other example?), the question is how far from a supernova?, what was the ship doing? (i.e. was it moving) I don’t recall that being mentioned anywhere, the thing is in this vague “survive a supernova” context,an Imperator can too…

If we assume 1e46J is released from a supernova travelling outwards at c; then perhaps this may surprise some people (though really it should not) but Imperator diverting 20% of its reactor output to shields could possibly survive at Earth’s orbit:

Volume of ISD(1600x1000x300m triangular slab): 2.4e8 m^3
Spherical volume of space, radius 1AU: 1.4e34 m^3
Energy density at 1 AU: 7.1e11 J/m^3
Energy absorbed by ISD: 1.7e20J (~40 GT)

So while the shield generators may get a little warm (Peak power 3.2e28W) that’s certainly survivable. If we consider that in reality 1e46 J is the energy carried away by neutrinos and instead we should probably consider the 1e44J from the observed explosion (from the outward travelling shockwave which is ~5000Km/s for models of Red giants).

Spherical volume of space, radius 10 Ro (10x radius of sun): 1.4e30 m^3
Energy density: 7.1e13 J/m^3
Peak power (travelling 1.6Km at 5000Km/s): 2.2e17 W/m^3
Peak power absorbed by shields: 5.3e25 W.

I.e. it is quite possible that given 20% of reactor power can be directed to shields, an Imperator will survive without having to worry about its shield generators overheating at 10x radius of sun (6.96 million Km or ~23 light seconds).

All I’m trying to say is I think the analogy of ant’s next to an MBT is overstretching it.

IIRC there was a GSV in Consider Phelbas that survived inside of a sun (or at least on the outer edges... Photosphere I think.) to hide. SW HAS a similar ability, but this seems to (based on the evidence we know) be for dedicated vessels and such.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Well it is said that black and white holes are the only natural anomalies to actually cause harm to Culture craft (yeah, they love flying into the event horizon ) so that gives a good idea.

[SirNitram]

For pure shield output, I'll run some simple calc's on the surface of a star, and how much a TF Core Ship would have absorbed had it been there instead of a GSV.

Power Intensity at surface of star(Ruthlessly stolen from Mike's Science section): ~ 6E7 W/m²

Profile of a TF Core Ship(Excluding comm towers): 655,785.86 m²(Rounded to 655km to make my life a little saner)

Energy absorbed by TF shields, assuming 100% transfer of energy: ~3.9E14W

Or.....

One billionth of the TF Core Ship's 6e23W peak shield generation.

Someone check my math, I'm rusty.

[HemlockGrey]

Well it is said that black and white holes are the only natural anomalies to actually cause harm to Culture craft (yeah, they love flying into the event horizon ) so that gives a good idea.

Bwahaha! Then the Principality will merely create so many black holes the Culture will have nowhere to turn!

[Uraniun235]

APPARENTLY YOU ARE

My comments from Page two onwards are unrelated. Only an idiot would fail to realise that.

Perhaps this will teach you the dangers of hijacking threads.

[Shrike]

Hehehehe, this is funny. Assuming 10 wars ships killer per microsecond per Culture ship, that's 162 seconds to wipe out all the Executor/Sovereigns/Eclipses.....

God, it would be glorious.

[Shrike]

All I’m trying to say is I think the analogy of ant’s next to an MBT is overstretching it.

Shields are rather pointless though when the enemy ordnance appears inside them. Or the Culture could just flick the off switch.

[SWPIGWANG]

Hehehehe, this is funny. Assuming 10 wars ships killer per microsecond per Culture ship, that's 162 seconds to wipe out all the Executor/Sovereigns/Eclipses.....

God, it would be glorious.

I'll pay to see that.....

[NecronLord]

APPARENTLY YOU ARE

My comments from Page two onwards are unrelated. Only an idiot would fail to realise that.

Perhaps this will teach you the dangers of hijacking threads.

Indeed, It's the last time I hijack a thread in a hurry

[SPOOFE]

Just to give everyone a language lesson from a drunkard...

"Overrated" is a term that refers to the phenomenon of people considering a subject - be it a book, series of books, an actual object, a concept, etc. - to be greater than it really is. "Overrated" is not meant to substitute "overpowered", which is a wholly subjective concept that, if Ambrose Bierce were alive today, probably would be defined as "Anything that is stronger than me or mine."

Carry on, my flock.

[NecronLord]

I really did mean overrated. Read the books then go to Spacebattles. You'll understand once you have seen some of the more insane claims.

[XaLEv]

I really did mean overrated. Read the books then go to Spacebattles. You'll understand once you have seen some of the more insane claims.

Why don't you just tell us what some of these insane claims are.

[SPOOFE]

I really did mean overrated. Read the books then go to Spacebattles. You'll understand once you have seen some of the more insane claims.

What? You think I haven't been at Spacebattles for a good long while now? How could you possibly miss my pretty, pretty face?

But I second XaLEv's comments... rather than spouting some whiny, vague comment that essentially boils down to "I'm too lazy to do my own fucking work!", why don't you provide the cites to back up your claims?