shields on the death star?

[Darth Tanner]

Surely hiding the location of the Death Star wouldnt be compromised by a few battalions of troops moved from the orbiting fleet.
Especially when you consider the sheer number of transports needed to ferry in the raw materials for the DS2

[Soontir C'boath]

Surely hiding the location of the Death Star wouldnt be compromised by a few battalions of troops moved from the orbiting fleet.
Especially when you consider the sheer number of transports needed to ferry in the raw materials for the DS2

No, but as said before, why put more than needed?

[consequences]

Number of Imperial troops already on the planet: 9700 or more.

Nuber of Rebels that could be crammed into a Lambda shuttle: probably no more than 40.

With a 217 to one or more superiority in numbers, why add more troops to the surface that Luke could potentially sense through the Force?

[Darth Tanner]

no way there was 9700 troops on planet unless they were spread criminally thin.

I know the rebels hit from the backdoor but that door still conects to the main base, so the infantry could have gone through

[consequences]

no way there was 9700 troops on planet unless they were spread criminally thin.

I know the rebels hit from the backdoor but that door still conects to the main base, so the infantry could have gone through

Remember seeing that AT-AT that was walking around anywhere near the main fight? Likewise, why should they bring thousands of additional stormies when the troops on the scene had the situation well in hand until the Ewoks turned up?

Also, did you notice how the officer in charge of the base has to specifically open it up? Its fairly reasonable to assume that the base went into lockdown as soon as they were aware of the attack. Its also entirely possible that Ewoks were hitting other areas in the perimeter.

Besides, the communications coming in would be as follows: 'Rebels secured' 'crap where did they come from?' engaging many primitive hostiles' 'Currently driving them back' 'Scout one down' 'destroyed enemy 'artillery', heh, if you can call it that' 'Scout three destroyed, they kriffing crushed it with some trees' 'Situation well in hand, we're pushing them back at all points'. Then the faked transmission.

[Darth Tanner]

Surely the troops that were sent out but surrounded and forced to surrender (which razes questions about stormtrooper loyalty) would have reported the battle for the back door lost, the stormtroopers had their helmets on so they could have done this without alerting anyone and getting shot


Also wouldnt reports that half your walkers are gone raise some attention from the commanders

I never understood why the AT AT was on the planet, it couldnt move very effectively in heavy forest

[Cykeisme]

I never understood why the AT AT was on the planet, it couldnt move very effectively in heavy forest

Just addressing this.. yes, it can. Even the Trade Federation repulsorlift droid transports (far lighter, and with no ground contact) barely notice trees in their path. An AT-AT, now.. it's so damn massive that it would be like trees weren't even there.

[fusion]

Lets stay on track before it is locked.
You must remember that shield technology has been around for years it is certainly possible for the technology to recognize the difference between a turbo laser and a space craft.
(first post!)

[Patrick Degan]

They're defense was fine and the fight was on the Imperial's side until Chewie captured an AT-ST.

Actually, their defence was doing just fine until Col. Klink stupidly opened his blast-doors instead of staying buttoned-up inside his bunker until getting an all-clear from the Emperor.

[Nightbringer]

Number of Imperial troops already on the planet: 9700 or more.

Nuber of Rebels that could be crammed into a Lambda shuttle: probably no more than 40.

With a 217 to one or more superiority in numbers, why add more troops to the surface that Luke could potentially sense through the Force?

It was a very large number of troops but it was still a victory for the Rebels, it is the small slip-ups that cost the Empire dearly, with the Rebels being hugely outnumbered and Luke handing himself in it should have been a victory for the Empire.

[Darth Tanner]

troops on the scene had the situation well in hand until the Ewoks turned up?

did they?
they lost control of the outside of the base, allowed rebels access to the door circuitry and took heavy casualties in the initial arrow barrage.
Also they lost any formation chasing ewoks off into the trees, abandoning the base (I assume they felt the door was safe)

Also when reinforcments are sent out they sent oficers and fleet troops so they must have run out of stormtroopers.

Oh and I would love to have seen the ATAT stamping about on ewoks, I do that a lot in Empier at War.

[nightmare]

(which razes questions about stormtrooper loyalty)

No it doesn't. Stormtroopers are instructed to surrender if the odds are impossible, to live to fight another day for the Emperor.

[Nightbringer]

(which razes questions about stormtrooper loyalty)

No it doesn't. Stormtroopers are instructed to surrender if the odds are impossible, to live to fight another day for the Emperor.

Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears

[Soontir C'boath]

(which razes questions about stormtrooper loyalty)

No it doesn't. Stormtroopers are instructed to surrender if the odds are impossible, to live to fight another day for the Emperor.

Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears

Would you people (like you) stop fucking calling them teddy bears?

1. It's not exactly easy to target three foot high beings that can hide in the dense cover of the forest.

2. Due to their ability to hide, they can spring surprise attacks in which we've seen have bogged down imperial troops.

3. They were able to take down stormtroopers by the use of throwing rocks the size of their heads and slingers for smaller rocks making for a real hurting experience even with the armor on. Really, try fighting back when a huge rock just came down on you bringing agonizing pain.

4. Along with the storm troopers, they set traps for at least two AT-ST walkers that we've seen worked.

These are not fucking teddy bears. They did not prance around the woods doing nothing during the fight. Ewoks were shown to have the cognitive ability to think up traps, tactics, teamwork, and had the element of geography to their advantage.

[Ghost Rider]

(which razes questions about stormtrooper loyalty)

No it doesn't. Stormtroopers are instructed to surrender if the odds are impossible, to live to fight another day for the Emperor.

Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears

Yes, because they were cut off by their larger artillery, reinforcements, and were being assualted by beings that can throw rocks the size of their torso from great heights...and oh wait

THEY WERE WINNING

Oh that's right, the novel places the Imps winning until Chewbacca took over an AT-ST.

[nightmare]

Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears

There was 30 and some odd troopers in the clearing, some of which were only scouts and officers. None of the troops carried heavy weapons. A Lambda-class shuttle like the Tyridium carries max 20 rebels plus 4-6 crew, and it's unlikely that they had packed in more; it was a commando team, after all. The Stormtroopers won that battle with as far as we can tell very few losses.

Next they are ambushed by a lot of Ewoks. The novel suggests hundreds, possibly even thousands rising up. However, I would expect this large-scale escalation to also engage the front door Stormtroopers.

But if we assume that it was just that one Ewok tribe, the number is unlikely to be over 1-200.

Now, if we go just by what we see onscreen, even though the novelization is canon, the combined Ewoks and rebels still outnumbered the present Stormtroopers. I would estimate at least 2:1 just by what we see. They're also vicious little bastards who eat people and managed to capture the rebels. They also have intimate knowledge of the environment, have natural camouflage, present half the target size of humans, had prepared traps in advance, are demonstrably stronger than Luke, advanced enough to use blasters when they can capture them, and they have gliders.

Additionally, we see a naval trooper with a A280 heavy rifle. The same type of assault weapon the rebels used on Hoth - but we don't see the naval troops in the clearing with such rifles, suggesting that he took it from one of the rebels when they surrendered and kept it. It implies that the rebels, unlike the Imperial troops, did carry some heavy weapons.

So what the devil are you talking about? "ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears"??

[Nightbringer]

I am sorry for calling them 'teddy bears' Soontir C'boath, I didn't mean it literally, I was just joking, I shall call them Ewoks in future, okay?

[Lazarus]

I beleive the tiny squares on the DS plans as they zoom in on it and the image goes under them(the squares).

Bollocks, thats just conjecture with very little basis. Why the hell would they leave gaps between the shields, when there is absolute proof that there is no need to do so? On Bothawui, the shield generators generated different sections of the shield, true, but there sure as hell weren't any 'gaps' between them, that would make absolutely no sense. The squares on the image at the Yavin briefing could be absolutely anything, there's no reason to believe they are shields, especially considering their size, thats a lot more than a 2m gap between them.

The Torpedo Sphere is designed to fire hundreds of proton torpedoes at one point on the shield, which creates in a single moment enough energy to overpower one particular shield generator which powers that section of the shield. This section then falls, leaving a LARGE hole, which turbolasers on the sphere exploit by hitting the generator. The official description is that this is done before other generators can compensate. The spheres DO NOT 'shoot through the gaps between the edges of the shield'.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that there exists a type of shield so inefficient that it leaves gaps big enough for strike fighters to get through. If you can pilot a fighter through it, you can shoot through it. This would be THE MOST USELESS SHIELD EVER DEVISED.

[AK_Jedi]

troops on the scene had the situation well in hand until the Ewoks turned up?

did they?
they lost control of the outside of the base, allowed rebels access to the door circuitry and took heavy casualties in the initial arrow barrage.
Also they lost any formation chasing ewoks off into the trees, abandoning the base (I assume they felt the door was safe)

Also when reinforcments are sent out they sent oficers and fleet troops so they must have run out of stormtroopers.

1. They lost control of the outside because they wanted the rebels to go inside. Its far easier to ambush a commando team like that in the confines of a building rather than in a dense forest. If they tried to capture them before, its likely that some would have escaped.

2. Also, they did not take heavy causualites to the arrows. Despite the huge amount of arrows fired, only a few were able to strike the weak points in armour, or the officers. Take a look at the movie next time. You'll notice that the clearing around the back door has only a few bodies scattered around from all the various fighting that was going on.

3. The troops chased after the ewoks because they were the main threat. there were still a number of stormtroopers around the clearing trying to pick off Han and Leia. Also, the door was pretty much safe. Instead of opening it, they only managed to close even more doors.

[LaserRifleofDoom]

About the DS2 sheild. Remember, they only knew that the DS2 was beig built, unlike the DS1, they had very little in way of technical readouts. So the sheild might have had figaps that fighters could fly through, like the DS1, but they didn't know where they were.

[Nightbringer]

About the DS2 sheild. Remember, they only knew that the DS2 was beig built, unlike the DS1, they had very little in way of technical readouts. So the sheild might have had figaps that fighters could fly through, like the DS1, but they didn't know where they were.

Yes, but even if the Rebels had thought of this, they soon discovered it was not so when they sent the fleet in.

[Ghost Rider]

About the DS2 sheild. Remember, they only knew that the DS2 was beig built, unlike the DS1, they had very little in way of technical readouts. So the sheild might have had figaps that fighters could fly through, like the DS1, but they didn't know where they were.

Yes, but even if the Rebels had thought of this, they soon discovered it was not so when they sent the fleet in.

Y'know....watching the movie and that whole scene of Ackbar and Madine talking about a shield needed to be KNOCKED DOWN before any assault states otherwise.

[Noble Ire]

About the DS2 sheild. Remember, they only knew that the DS2 was beig built, unlike the DS1, they had very little in way of technical readouts. So the sheild might have had figaps that fighters could fly through, like the DS1, but they didn't know where they were.

Yes, but even if the Rebels had thought of this, they soon discovered it was not so when they sent the fleet in.

They sent in the fleet to make absolutely sure that the job got done. After all, they were counting on the shield being down when they arrived, and still sent the full fleet to Endor, not just fightercraft.

[nightmare]

The reason for "pores" in a shield is unlikely to be for letting turbolaser bolts out - energy shields are one-way and would let those out anyway.

Now, while the Death Star also had projectile weapons ("explosive solids"), this is still unlikely to be the reason for [particle] shield gaps. Projectile weapons cannot be fired at lightspeed and would consequently have far shorter effective range than turbolasers. Hence, they would be short-range defences only and limiting them to inside the particle shield* may be sufficient.

*It would be terminally stupid to not have particle shields when you demonstrably already have energy shields on it. Also, the quote about capital ships being unable to slip through it also indicates a particle shield existing.

A far better candidate is geometry. From the description of energy shields, and logic, we can conclude that the power required to uphold a working shield increases with area (volume is not completely accurate). Consequently, using a net with holes in it rather than a "solid" shield could double its strenght, for instance, or drop the power requirements by half. Or even more depending on how large you make the holes. This is assuming the relationship is simply linear (which have been established from the official and inofficial works of Dr. Saxton). Exponential relationship would increase the gain.

In other words, if you have x amount of power for your shield with area y, you can increase the strenght of the shield by either increasing x or decreasing y. A net shield would do the latter. If you already have armor or other defences strong enough that you can largely ignore anything slipping through the net, it would be a prudent choice to have a net shield.

[Knife]

I beleive the tiny squares on the DS plans as they zoom in on it and the image goes under them(the squares).

Bollocks, thats just conjecture with very little basis. Why the hell would they leave gaps between the shields, when there is absolute proof that there is no need to do so? On Bothawui, the shield generators generated different sections of the shield, true, but there sure as hell weren't any 'gaps' between them, that would make absolutely no sense. The squares on the image at the Yavin briefing could be absolutely anything, there's no reason to believe they are shields, especially considering their size, thats a lot more than a 2m gap between them.

The Torpedo Sphere is designed to fire hundreds of proton torpedoes at one point on the shield, which creates in a single moment enough energy to overpower one particular shield generator which powers that section of the shield. This section then falls, leaving a LARGE hole, which turbolasers on the sphere exploit by hitting the generator. The official description is that this is done before other generators can compensate. The spheres DO NOT 'shoot through the gaps between the edges of the shield'.

There is no reason whatsoever to believe that there exists a type of shield so inefficient that it leaves gaps big enough for strike fighters to get through. If you can pilot a fighter through it, you can shoot through it. This would be THE MOST USELESS SHIELD EVER DEVISED.

It's possilbe that with the Death Star being as big as it is, they only rely on shielding a hemisphere durring combat operations. Multiple theater shields, if you will, that if they are all activated, would cover the DS. However, with the shear sized of the damn thing, maybe they only 'activate' the theater shield over the portion that the threat is.

You wouldn't need an all emcompancing shield for something that size, even with cap ship attacks. Just where the enemy happens to be. I don't know what the energy budget is for the thing, but powering a shield for the whole thing when even with SW manuvering, it would take a couple seconds to wheel around to the other side, would be inefficient.