micro wormhole

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2006-04-04 07:56pm

Ok the Feddies encounter a microworm hole not big enough to travel through but only send information through. Eventaully with enough research and cooperation with the other side they can transport through it but on very limited basis say one or two people per week . Now the New or Old Replublic would have no problem with culutre exchange but I am wondering how the Empire would handle it.

1. Would they be able to keep information of their astrocitices away from the federation long enough to build the technologies needed to transport people through.

2. They build the transport relays and are only able to send a low number of people through how would they go about subjuctating the Feds assuming they would even waste time and effort.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2006-04-04 08:37pm

They would probably close the worm hole one way or another if they viewed it as a threat to the empire. However, most likely that they would send a few probe over to investigate the new found "empire" in the hopes they could locate where the Federation is and take it over. Also couldn't the Imperials be able to make a transporter powerful enough to beam something larger over due to their immense power capabilities.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-04-04 08:51pm

At the risk of restarting an old debate, there's also the question of whether or not the Imps would be willing to sacrifice themselves to allow copies to be sent to Fed space.. then again they could always clone people for the express purpose of being transported.

My bet would be they'd find out what they can, then strike a deal with one of the expansionist races in the galaxy and offer them an entire quadrant in exchange for materials and industrial muscle to build imperial forces in the new galaxy.. would certainly be a long term plan though.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-04 09:41pm

PayBack wrote:My bet would be they'd find out what they can, then strike a deal with one of the expansionist races in the galaxy and offer them an entire quadrant in exchange for materials and industrial muscle to build imperial forces in the new galaxy.. would certainly be a long term plan though.

The issue is that there is no recourse if the race decides to take Star Wars technology, seal off the Empire, and run with it. Given the fact that you can't fit anything larger than a person through the wormhole at a time, the Empire would be unable to send any reinforcements, and the wormhole is the ultimate bottleneck; all you have to do is put an iris around it or post a guard, and you have effectively cut the Empire off from the Milky Way.

Even if the expansionist race waits a decade or two, the Empire will only have two thousand representatives in the Milky Way, at most (2 people per week * 52 weeks/year * 20 years/2 decades = 2080 people/2 decades), and an overwhelming majority of those will be engineers, theoretical scientists, and technicians to help the civilization construct the warmachine.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-04-05 12:31am

Well everything they created would have self destructs, and one of the first things they'd create would be cloning facilities.. so the population growth would quickly be substantially more. Either that or droids... again with anti tampering precautions. It would go without saying you'd secure your position before letting anything of value through to anyone who could betray you.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2006-04-05 04:40pm

Maybe a better idea is to send a Sith over and have it brain wash everyone.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-05 06:45pm

PayBack wrote:Well everything they created would have self destructs, and one of the first things they'd create would be cloning facilities.. so the population growth would quickly be substantially more.

You're forgetting that these cloning facilities exist by the grace of the expansionist race, assuming the race has control of the micro wormhole. Nothing prevents them from stopping cloning, espionage to figure out the clone technology, and subsequent duplication elsewhere.

Either that or droids... again with anti tampering precautions. It would go without saying you'd secure your position before letting anything of value through to anyone who could betray you.

The Empire doesn't have enough time to secure it; remember, they're in contact with the race, and they can't send more than one or two units through per week. If they initiated hostilities with the race, they couldn't get anything done, because they're isolated from their industrial and military base. Everything the Empire does in the Milky Way is by the grace and goodwill of their host race, and if they choose an expansionist race, they can't count on that goodwill.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-04-05 10:43pm

Surlethe wrote: You're forgetting that these cloning facilities exist by the grace of the expansionist race, assuming the race has control of the micro wormhole. Nothing prevents them from stopping cloning, espionage to figure out the clone technology, and subsequent duplication elsewhere.

I'm not forgetting that at all. I'm am however assuming that the expansionist race are not going to screw me over for a measly cloning technology when I'm offering them a quarter of the galaxy. That tech alone won't let them conquer the galaxy.

Surlethe wrote: The Empire doesn't have enough time to secure it; remember, they're in contact with the race, and they can't send more than one or two units through per week. If they initiated hostilities with the race, they couldn't get anything done, because they're isolated from their industrial and military base. Everything the Empire does in the Milky Way is by the grace and goodwill of their host race, and if they choose an expansionist race, they can't count on that goodwill.

No, I'm talking about using resources supplied by the other race to be used by Imp techs to build a droid production facility. In both the clone and droid instance I'm attempting to build a power base without letting "Game Over" technology fall into the expansionist races hands should they back stab me.

And remember, they are NOT in control of the wormhole, the Feds are (but are not likely to restrict our travel in their galaxy... hell they let complete strangers onto their bridge, into Engineering and have free wander of fed ships), so the other race has to remember if they do back stab us and don't get a "Game Over" tech, then we'll be giving better techs to their enemies in short order.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-05 11:15pm

PayBack wrote:
Surlethe wrote:You're forgetting that these cloning facilities exist by the grace of the expansionist race, assuming the race has control of the micro wormhole. Nothing prevents them from stopping cloning, espionage to figure out the clone technology, and subsequent duplication elsewhere.
I'm not forgetting that at all. I'm am however assuming that the expansionist race are not going to screw me over for a measly cloning technology when I'm offering them a quarter of the galaxy. That tech alone won't let them conquer the galaxy.

It's not just that tech alone; you'd be naive to think the race wouldn't try to steal as much as possible. Furthermore, in order to use cloning, there's almost definitely a host of other technologies the race would have to learn first in order to construct the Imperial cloning facility, or droid-construction facility; it's ridiculous to think that the power-generation, robotics, and materials technology alone won't give the race an incredible advantage over its neighbors.

Surlethe wrote:The Empire doesn't have enough time to secure it; remember, they're in contact with the race, and they can't send more than one or two units through per week. If they initiated hostilities with the race, they couldn't get anything done, because they're isolated from their industrial and military base. Everything the Empire does in the Milky Way is by the grace and goodwill of their host race, and if they choose an expansionist race, they can't count on that goodwill.
No, I'm talking about using resources supplied by the other race to be used by Imp techs to build a droid production facility. In both the clone and droid instance I'm attempting to build a power base without letting "Game Over" technology fall into the expansionist races hands should they back stab me.

The problem is you can't do that; if you don't give advanced technology out, then you won't be able to build a power base. The race is going to have to provide the labor, since a few thousand men isn't going to cut the job, and they're going to have to choose the site; they're going to have complete control over the building process, the materials, everything.

And remember, they are NOT in control of the wormhole, the Feds are (but are not likely to restrict our travel in their galaxy... hell they let complete strangers onto their bridge, into Engineering and have free wander of fed ships), so the other race has to remember if they do back stab us and don't get a "Game Over" tech, then we'll be giving better techs to their enemies in short order.

In either case, you lose; anyway, what makes you think the Federation will permit expansionist -- and therefore hostile -- races to use the wormhole to communicate with the Empire, and the Empire to communicate with them? If anything, the Federation is going to be doing everything it can to milk Imperial technology out of the Empire once it realizes what a potent force resides on the other side of the wormhole.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-04-05 11:34pm

Well then it's a matter of opinion as I don't think the expansionst race would bite the hand that feeds it untill they get something they will give them more than they'd get by keeping the bargin... and I do think a cloning facility would require more energy than fed level tech could provide. More importantly, I've lost count of how many times someones installed some trojun in Fed tech without anyone knowing... there's no reason the Imps coudn't include kill swtiches seeing as they're onsite and have all the knowedge. The whole point of starting small is to retain control and produce the manpower you can control.

As to communications.. the feds are not allowing communication via the wormhole, they're just not locking up even Imp that comes through. A few Imps can come in every month or something? They'd be free to go where they like (based on previous experience with Feds and strangers) and could visit other races freely.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2006-04-06 07:24am

Send a probe through with a hyperwave transmitter. It figures out where it is, reports back to the Empire, and the Star Trek galaxy has an invasion on it's hands within a few years.

dragon · Post by **dragon** » 2006-04-06 08:22am

Solauren wrote:Send a probe through with a hyperwave transmitter. It figures out where it is, reports back to the Empire, and the Star Trek galaxy has an invasion on it's hands within a few years.

Rember its a long time ago in a galaxy far away. And since they haven't even been to the near by galaxy even though they have the tech I doubt they would travel further to conquer a galaxy with limited tech for the most parts.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-04-06 03:34pm

dragon wrote:
Solauren wrote:Send a probe through with a hyperwave transmitter. It figures out where it is, reports back to the Empire, and the Star Trek galaxy has an invasion on it's hands within a few years.
Rember its a long time ago in a galaxy far away. And since they haven't even been to the near by galaxy even though they have the tech I doubt they would travel further to conquer a galaxy with limited tech for the most parts.

That's just a question of motivation.
According to the Episode III ICS the Seperatists travelled at least half the distance to the nearest satellite galaxy on a regular basis so it can hardly be a new frontier.
The Empire just didn't want to bother with extra-galactic exploration and conquest while the civil war was going on I'd guess.

The Star Trek galaxy on the other hand would present a plump and easy target so it might be more worthwhile even if the distance is greater.
Well, not if it's on the other side of the universe or something, of course.

fusion · Post by **fusion** » 2006-04-06 05:49pm

Rember its a long time ago in a galaxy far away

Even if the Empire finds the galaxy, it would be millions of years young compared to the Federation they are meeting though the worm hole. So, unless the Empire could stabilize and dilate the worm hole, the Federation wouldn't see a invasion.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-04-06 05:53pm

fusion wrote:
Rember its a long time ago in a galaxy far away
Even if the Empire finds the galaxy, it would be millions of years young compared to the Federation they are meeting though the worm hole. So, unless the Empire could stabilize and dilate the worm hole, the Federation wouldn't see a invasion.

Nobody said this is a Voyager-brand time-micro-wormhole.

PayBack · Post by **PayBack** » 2006-04-06 07:11pm

Solauren wrote:Send a probe through with a hyperwave transmitter. It figures out where it is, reports back to the Empire, and the Star Trek galaxy has an invasion on it's hands within a few years.

Don't bad things happen when you fly through some bubble surrounding the galaxy? I just vaguely recall something bad happening with the outreach programme or whatever it was. This is pre Book outreach so the reasons things went wrong have changed with the book I believe (no spoilers please I haven't read it yet

)

Base Delta Zero · Post by **Base Delta Zero** » 2006-04-06 08:32pm

on't bad things happen when you fly through some bubble surrounding the galaxy? I just vaguely recall something bad happening with the outreach programme or whatever it was. This is pre Book outreach so the reasons things went wrong have changed with the book I believe (no spoilers please I haven't read it yet )

No. That was a false explanation for what really happened.

glass · Post by **glass** » 2006-08-22 07:29am

fusion wrote:
Rember its a long time ago in a galaxy far away
Even if the Empire finds the galaxy, it would be millions of years young compared to the Federation they are meeting though the worm hole. So, unless the Empire could stabilize and dilate the worm hole, the Federation wouldn't see a invasion.

Who says? While a million years is certainly a long time, a long time is not necessarily a million years. Maybe it is only a hundred years ago?

glass.

glass · Post by **glass** » 2006-08-22 07:36am

PayBack wrote:Don't bad things happen when you fly through some bubble surrounding the galaxy?

I haven't read the newer Outbound-Flight-related novels either, but I have recently re-read TTT, and AFACT from that the only bad thing that happen if you if you leave the galaxy is

**Spoiler for TTT follows**
(This board doesn't seem to have a Spoiler

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2006-08-22 01:08pm

Necro, read the rules