Would saving the US Constitution be worth your life? (Hypo.)

[CaptJodan]

I think to prevent the suffering of a great many people, even those I don't know, out of the way, I'd go ahead and do it. As a value to society, my life currently isn't nearly as high as it would be should such a sacrifice be undertaken.

I'm something of a patriot anyway. I do love my country (though realize that a great many things are better in other countries) and would chose to fight for it should someone invade. (or in this case, if morons get power)

[Lonestar]

I, state your full name, do solemnly swear, to protect the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

To reiterate what the Zoomies have already said.

[Metatwaddle]

I like to think that yes, I'd give my life for our Constitutional democracy. I sincerely doubt that there's any way my individual death could significantly help, but as this is a hypothetical question, that doesn't really matter.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Lord of the Abyss, why does America deserve this particular hell? Besides whatever happened to forgiving the sins of the father? Does simply being an American mean that you deserve to live in this hellhole?

First, there's the usual list of American nastiness and stupidity; Iraq, electing Bush and the other Republicans, rabid greed, environmental destruction, general religious lunacy, homophobia, hatred of the poor, racism, etc.

Second, the social disaster in the OP is a self inflicted one; not an invasion, not even a coup, but the country going even further the way it is now. It's describing a future America brought upon itself, and I can't work up much compassion for a nation that ruins itself without outside help.

Besides, I'm not even slightly patriotic; I don't believe in it. I live in America for three reasons; my friends and relatives are here, I don't want to make the kind of effort it would take to move to another country and make a new life there, and because I've got to live somewhere. If I were to move to, say, England, I've no guarantee I'll like it any better, and things aren't yet bad enough that I feel it necessary to leave the country.

And no, if I became a citizen of another nation, I wouldn't be patriotic for that country, either.

[Ninja of the North]

Personally, I would do it. I find it somewhat troubling to know that I could have stopped the destruction of my government but did nothing. Also, being one of thoes "undesierables", along will my family and all my friends weighs in my decision. More importantly though, I would hate to see the document that so many people died to protect throught the years go down the shitter so easily.

[Gil Hamilton]

The US is only a piece of land. If the fundies have taken over and are expelling everyone who isn't a moron, I don't see any problem taking up residence in a more agreeable geographical region. Those who stay will be rewarded for their idiocy long-term.

Your home is also a piece of land. Does that mean you don't protect it if assholes try and take it from you, and just leave, going "Oh, well, I can live somewhere else."

I can't really conceive of fighting for the United States, I haven't seen most of it and it's too big to really comprehend. However, the piece of it that is mine, my city, is worth fighting for. It is not "idiocy", as you put it, to think so. The possibility of saving even one of my countrymen and preserving their right to exist as free men, not to mention exacting vengence on those who did such things to my home, is more than a fair trade for a man's life.

[CarsonPalmer]

Lord of the Abyss, the OP postulates that many an innocent person (gays, blacks, Jews) have their lives turned into a living hell, and the most powerful nation in the world is now a theocracy. Doesn't the negative effect this will have on the world outweigh your lack of patriotism?

[Zero]

First, there's the usual list of American nastiness and stupidity; Iraq, electing Bush and the other Republicans, rabid greed, environmental destruction, general religious lunacy, homophobia, hatred of the poor, racism, etc.

Second, the social disaster in the OP is a self inflicted one; not an invasion, not even a coup, but the country going even further the way it is now. It's describing a future America brought upon itself, and I can't work up much compassion for a nation that ruins itself without outside help.

Besides, I'm not even slightly patriotic; I don't believe in it. I live in America for three reasons; my friends and relatives are here, I don't want to make the kind of effort it would take to move to another country and make a new life there, and because I've got to live somewhere. If I were to move to, say, England, I've no guarantee I'll like it any better, and things aren't yet bad enough that I feel it necessary to leave the country.

And no, if I became a citizen of another nation, I wouldn't be patriotic for that country, either.

Patriotism isn't all that enters into the equation. You're forgetting ethics, as well as the shift in global politics that would result if the world's current superpower became some crazy theocratic isolationist shithole.

The OP says that many innocent people will get fucked over. Do you really think that every black, mexican, jew, and homosexual in the nation deserve to get fucked over because of what the crazy-ass hicks believe? Do you think they should just because you don't give a fuck about this country? Also, consider the effects of China and India being the new contenders for global superpower. How do you think this would affect the strength of the Western world? What do you think the effects would be on the global economy if the US basically backed out from all interactions with it?

Did you consider anything but your lack of patriotism when making your stupid claims? I find it ironic that you cite rabid greed as one of your reasons for wanting to allow the US to become a total shithole while you flee the country. The US is going the way it is because of stupid shitheads like you who'd rather run away and whine like a bitch than even try to make anything better.

Whoops...hit the edit button when I meant to quote. Sorry, Zero. ~RI

[Cao Cao]

It is a lot to ask however. Dying to prevent the rise of a theocracy one time.
I'm scared stiff of death.. the mere thought depresses me greatly.. if you really had to make the choice, to plunge into the darkness that final time.. would it really be so black and white?

[Kamakazie Sith]

It is a lot to ask however. Dying to prevent the rise of a theocracy one time.
I'm scared stiff of death.. the mere thought depresses me greatly.. if you really had to make the choice, to plunge into the darkness that final time.. would it really be so black and white?

I guess it depends on that moment where you make the choice. Overall though you're talking about surpressing a group of corrupt leaders that are in control of the most powerful country in the world and it's following their rules. I'd say that's pretty black and white even if you're not an American

[Cao Cao]

It is a lot to ask however. Dying to prevent the rise of a theocracy one time.
I'm scared stiff of death.. the mere thought depresses me greatly.. if you really had to make the choice, to plunge into the darkness that final time.. would it really be so black and white?

I guess it depends on that moment where you make the choice. Overall though you're talking about surpressing a group of corrupt leaders that are in control of the most powerful country in the world and it's following their rules. I'd say that's pretty black and white even if you're not an American

In theory, of course ir's black and white. Nobody wants the US turned into a nightmare theocracy (well, apart from ignorant fundies who should be deported to Pluto).
I guess I'm talking about the moment, the actual choice before me. I honestly don't know if I could do it. I think the overriding drive for self-preservation would stop me in my tracks.

I would of course always regret it later if I did choose life and God's Holy Provinces of America or something rose up and would always wonder.. what if?

[Uraniun235]

I think if things really looked that bad I'd try agitating for the secession of the Pacific Northwest and the creation of a new land called "Cascadia".

[WacoKid]

Hell, I'm moving back to Italy. But seriously, I love the US, but I doubt I could sacrifice my life for a country of which I'm not even a citizen. If that's how the country is destined to go, then let those who wish to live in it stay.

[Knife]

I'd fight for what is mine. Without being to gushie; I'm a patriot. I make sure I vote, I try to pay attension to local/national politics, I've served my country.

If it was going down the crap-hole, and some sort of revolution was necessary, I'd fight.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Did you consider anything but your lack of patriotism when making your stupid claims? I find it ironic that you cite rabid greed as one of your reasons for wanting to allow the US to become a total shithole while you flee the country. The US is going the way it is because of stupid shitheads like you who'd rather run away and whine like a bitch than even try to make anything better.

*rantsplosion*

Thats nonsense. The US is going down the tubes because the people want it this way. The average American wants this, they want to feel 'safe' so bad that they dont care what happens. They want to uphold an illusion of some halcyon age with liberty and justice for all, while they forge an empireof opression and greed and self-indulgance. That is why Bush won two elections, that is why people STILL defend him while scandal after scandal erupts. That is why people will argue you down if you try to say torture is bad. That is why racism, religious opression and fanaticism is still rampant in this country.

The country is going the way it is because most people want it this way. The same with Nazi Germany, you can say it was the depression, it was the revolution, blah blah blah...the fact is the German people wanted Hitler and liked what he said, they liked his beliefs and agreed with him, so they followed him and obeyed him knowing, FULL AND WELL, what that would lead to. Mein Kampf made Hitler's opinions damc clear years before, no one cared. Those hwo did--SHOCK--fled because they couldnt stop a tidal wave of racism, ignorance and fanaticism.

The same thing here. Most of these people like the neocon point of view, like greed, like self-righteousness, like religious opression, like racism...they'll never SAY it cause its not 'PC' anymore but they do. Who do you think watches Bill O'Reily, or Rush Limbaugh, or Anthrax Coulter? Who do you think founded FauxNews? Who do you think VOTED FOR BUSH TWICE? Wasnt me. I'm willing to bet it wasnt Lord of the Abyss, and probably not you either, just a guess.

[Knife]

*rantsplosion*

Thats nonsense. The US is going down the tubes because the people want it this way. The average American wants this, they want to feel 'safe' so bad that they dont care what happens. They want to uphold an illusion of some halcyon age with liberty and justice for all, while they forge an empireof opression and greed and self-indulgance. That is why Bush won two elections, that is why people STILL defend him while scandal after scandal erupts. That is why people will argue you down if you try to say torture is bad. That is why racism, religious opression and fanaticism is still rampant in this country.

The country is going the way it is because most people want it this way. The same with Nazi Germany, you can say it was the depression, it was the revolution, blah blah blah...the fact is the German people wanted Hitler and liked what he said, they liked his beliefs and agreed with him, so they followed him and obeyed him knowing, FULL AND WELL, what that would lead to. Mein Kampf made Hitler's opinions damc clear years before, no one cared. Those hwo did--SHOCK--fled because they couldnt stop a tidal wave of racism, ignorance and fanaticism.

The same thing here. Most of these people like the neocon point of view, like greed, like self-righteousness, like religious opression, like racism...they'll never SAY it cause its not 'PC' anymore but they do. Who do you think watches Bill O'Reily, or Rush Limbaugh, or Anthrax Coulter? Who do you think founded FauxNews? Who do you think VOTED FOR BUSH TWICE? Wasnt me. I'm willing to bet it wasnt Lord of the Abyss, and probably not you either, just a guess.

Thats tripe too. Most people are concern with their lives, and don't see things in a larger view. In this way, they're like cattle and can be led by the nose to do/support stupid shit. This in no way means they 'want it this way', rather on a national level a complete lack of leadership (or perhaps leadership towards a better end).

[Joe]

Hell, I want to say that I'd do it, but what would I do if it actually happened? Really, I have no way of knowing how I'd react.

[18-Till-I-Die]

The fact they voted for Bush twice, categorically refuse to accept Evolution, promote all manner of racism, religious opression, anti-gay hysteria...none of that matters.

The average person isnt as stupid as smart(er) people want to believe. Thats an illusion, they know precisely what is going on, they just dont want to say it out loud.

And if you're right and they are THAT stupid then why should anyone die for them? Or fight them? Let them be stupid, wallow in their own mess like a pig, and die off so the rest of humanity that has advanecd into the, at a minimum, 19th century can continue to function.

[18-Till-I-Die]

And before someone says i'm anti-American or some shit, no i'm not. I dont think America is going to be like this for long, i think a generationor two later it will be much better. But after all this Republican corruption and scandal and this seemingly endless insipid presidency i cant see much light at the end of the tunnel for my generation. Maybe my grandkids.

[Cao Cao]

It is essentially difficult to see how one act could halt the coming storm.
If America were sliding down the path to a bigotted theocracy at best one's sacrifice might postpone it.. but destroy it outright? I doubt it.

I mean, if you could go back in time and kill Hitler in the 1920s, would you stop the rise of Nazi Germany and the millions of deaths? Or would some disgusting little asshole like Himmler take his place as Fuhrer bringing forth an even worse regime?

[CarsonPalmer]

Jesus 18. The average American wants everything the Bush administration is doing because he won two closely contested elections, had the benefit in the first one of a third party candidate in the first one, ran a well orcestrated sound bite campaign in the second against a rather poorly run Kerry campaign, and the majority of people vote the party to begin with?

[Cao Cao]

Jesus 18. The average American wants everything the Bush administration is doing because he won two closely contested elections, had the benefit in the first one of a third party candidate in the first one, ran a well orcestrated sound bite campaign in the second against a rather poorly run Kerry campaign, and the majority of people vote the party to begin with?

Well that whole partisan politics thing is a heavy blow to democratic elections.
More people should be interested in the leader, not the party.

[Morilore]

The fact they voted for Bush twice, categorically refuse to accept Evolution, promote all manner of racism, religious opression, anti-gay hysteria...none of that matters.

The average person isnt as stupid as smart(er) people want to believe. Thats an illusion, they know precisely what is going on, they just dont want to say it out loud.

And if you're right and they are THAT stupid then why should anyone die for them? Or fight them? Let them be stupid, wallow in their own mess like a pig, and die off so the rest of humanity that has advanecd into the, at a minimum, 19th century can continue to function.

It's not about the people who choose hell and live in it, it's about the people (~60 million if you go by the 2004 election) who didn't want hell but are stuck in it because of the assholishness of the rest. It's about the "Gay people, Muslims, atheists, liberals, and other 'undesirables'" who "are forcibly deported or imprisoned."

That's why I'd do it. Not because the Red, White, and Blue is so special, but because in this situation real people really get hurt. Ideals can be recreated anywhere; people cannot.

[18-Till-I-Die]

For the single reason it might be better under any other government than the one in the OP, of course i would do it.

But the OP is designed to get that response. Its a dystopia, the idea is to make it bad.

[Morilore]

For the single reason it might be better under any other government than the one in the OP, of course i would do it.

But the OP is designed to get that response. Its a dystopia, the idea is to make it bad.

That's not what you said earlier.

And if you're right and they are THAT stupid then why should anyone die for them? Or fight them? Let them be stupid, wallow in their own mess like a pig, and die off so the rest of humanity that has advanecd into the, at a minimum, 19th century can continue to function.