shields on the death star?

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-04-06 11:37pm

Lazarus wrote:Well then my point stands, these 'fluctuations' are not in any usual shield, they can be found between overlapping shields OF TWO ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SHIPS! This is hardly exactly the same thing for the DS. In Wedge's Gamble, it is stated that ships have been trapped between the twin sets of shields on Coruscant. if there were gaps that could be flown through, this would not occur.

There is NO description of similar fluctuations in the Bothawui shield in Specter/Vision, and in fact if there were, then I'm sure such weaknesses would have been exploited, as the Bothans had to keep the shield up all the time in order to stop themselves being fragged. The Bothawui shields are generated by individual generators, so if such fluctuations did occur in shields of such a scale, I'm sure they would have been mentioned and exploited.

Weaknesses in the shield are a completely different thing, and I digress the point on the torp spheres. A 20% decrease in power cannot be flown through.

Perhaps this was a combat shield? The mentions of mag shields in X-Wing books seem to be mostly during non-action time, so obviously it would be advantageous to have protection of the hangar bays from weapons fire when in combat operations.

Your point doesn't stand because these aren't fluctuations they're zones of interference between two shields. Guess what, planetary shields are made up of shield segments where two of the segments meet there's going to be interference zones. Torpedo Spheres could be taking advantage of these interference zones. The reason you don't hear about it is the DS may have extremely large zones because fighters that can take advantage of them weren't considered a threat. Whereas planetary shields have smaller ones because if fighters were able to fly through them they could disable the shields.
If the shield protecting the Invisible Hand's hangar is a combat shield why can it be destroyed from the outside? If it suppose to protect the hangar from attack an enemy being able to destroy the generator then attack the hangar defeats its entire purpose. Also if it's a combat shield how come it lets atmosphere escape when disabled. In combat it would seem to be a better idea just to close the bay doors then depend on an easily disabled shield.

Cykeisme · Post by **Cykeisme** » 2006-04-07 02:50am

It may be possible that making the shields completely "tight" (in terms of shield projector design, or in terms of projection settings) have some sort of trade-off.

If so, then perhaps the Death Star's shields wouldn't need to be resistant against starfighter incursion, because from a design perspective (Tarkin's decisions during the battle notwithstanding), opposing fighters shouldn't be a threat simply due to the number of Imperial starfighters on the Death Star. Any that get through the shield can easily be handled by hundreds upon hundreds of TIE fighter squadrons.

Regarding the idea that shields have to be down to fire.. this is certainly not the case. There are numerous occassions across the films where capital ships are seen to be firing while simultaneously taking hits to shields. This is far beyond arguable.

Nightbringer wrote:Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears

Then Soontir C'Baoth makes a well-reasoned analysis in his post, and it's time to backpedal! Full reverse!

Nightbringer wrote:By calling them teddy bears I wasn't denying their capabilities? They just look to me like teddy bears so I said it for a joke, sorry if you have a problem with that

Oh, really? It looks a lot like you were downplaying their capabilities.

Please, backpedalling is lame. Sorry if you have a problem with that.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-07 05:53am

if the shields keeping the atmospher in had to be lowered to allow ships in then there would be explosive decompression every time you do it.

I was suggesting there are TWO types of shields, as it quite clearly says in my post. They don't lower the mag shield, ships pass THROUGH it. The theorised combat shield on the other hand, is raised during battle. I agree that a projector on the outside in such a position on the IH is a bit poor design, however in this case the movies contradict themselves: In ANH the Falcon passes through the mag shield, in RotS the fighters could not. This leads me to believe there are two different types of shields in operation. If you have a better idea, fine, but in this case the canonity level is equal.

Your point doesn't stand because these aren't fluctuations they're zones of interference between two shields. Guess what, planetary shields are made up of shield segments where two of the segments meet there's going to be interference zones. Torpedo Spheres could be taking advantage of these interference zones.

Next time, read. I just fucking said that the torp spheres do indeed take advantage of areas in the shield that are about 20% weaker than other areas. THESE DOES NOT LET FIGHTERS THROUGH, THE SHIELD IS STILL THERE.
The ONLY source I am aware of that shows an interference zone actually allowing something through is in Tyrants Test, and that was between two completely different ships, who may have had different shield specifics. Therefore, for these type of shields (ie Bothawui, Coruscant), we should not use this source, but the other sources which directly describe a shield of this scale, ie Wedge's Gamble, Specter/Vision. The interference zones between these shields will only result in at the most a 20% decrease in power, not a 'hole'.

he reason you don't hear about it is the DS may have extremely large zones because fighters that can take advantage of them weren't considered a threat. Whereas planetary shields have smaller ones because if fighters were able to fly through them they could disable the shields.

So you think the DS designers wouldn't care that their defenses didn't work very well? The station has a crew of BILLIONS, do you not think they might want to protect them? Why employ a LESS effective system when a superior system is available? It doesn't matter whether they thought fighters could do much damage, you don't build defense systems on this scale that you KNOW to be weak and easily circumvented, when a mcuh better version is available.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-07 07:04am

Cykeisme wrote:It may be possible that making the shields completely "tight" (in terms of shield projector design, or in terms of projection settings) have some sort of trade-off.

If so, then perhaps the Death Star's shields wouldn't need to be resistant against starfighter incursion, because from a design perspective (Tarkin's decisions during the battle notwithstanding), opposing fighters shouldn't be a threat simply due to the number of Imperial starfighters on the Death Star. Any that get through the shield can easily be handled by hundreds upon hundreds of TIE fighter squadrons.

Regarding the idea that shields have to be down to fire.. this is certainly not the case. There are numerous occassions across the films where capital ships are seen to be firing while simultaneously taking hits to shields. This is far beyond arguable.

Nightbringer wrote:Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears
Then Soontir C'Baoth makes a well-reasoned analysis in his post, and it's time to backpedal! Full reverse!
Nightbringer wrote:By calling them teddy bears I wasn't denying their capabilities? They just look to me like teddy bears so I said it for a joke, sorry if you have a problem with that
Oh, really? It looks a lot like you were downplaying their capabilities.

Please, backpedalling is lame. Sorry if you have a problem with that.

Well now you know that I wasn't denying their capabilities, as I just admitted that I didn't.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-07 07:12am

It may be possible that making the shields completely "tight" (in terms of shield projector design, or in terms of projection settings) have some sort of trade-off.

Yeah, we thought about this on the shield thread, Darth Wong thought that bubble shields are superior in one way because of the increased distance from the hull, so greater stopping distance etc. Skin tight shields on the other hand are superior in that you can't somehow get 'under' them, and obviously if you're a fighter or other small ship you can fly closer to objects without risk of your shields hitting it.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-04-07 08:53am

Nightbringer wrote:Well now you know that I wasn't denying their capabilities, as I just admitted that I didn't.

Yea, three days after I replied to you about it, huh.

So all that time between the first apology, you just realized it?

1. This thread is in pure discussion mode. Your "joke" had no place here and even then refer to 2, 3, 4, and 5.
2. Your "joke" sucked; no creativity at all.
3. Your "joke" sucked so bad, I had to manhandled your ass about it when you did it again.
4. Your "joke" sucked so bad, that I wasn't alone in telling you about it.
5. The use of "teddy bears" is consistently used by people who think Ewoks are like those fuzzy stuffed animals; weak, peaceful, etc.
6. Shut up and leave this thread alone. It's about shields not your whining.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-04-07 10:50am

Lazarus wrote:

Actually I'm sure Imperial vessels do mount warhead launchers, Victory classes sure as hell do. Also, if this were the case, there would be no need for the shield to be dropped for the transports.

You should label who your responding to, it makes the thread easier to read. Anyway I was talking about the Death squadrons attack on the Hoth shield. There are no Victory's present so your point is moot because the Executer and the ISD'd escorting here don't carry capital ship
missiles.

Second even if they only had a ray shield they still have to drop it to get the transports away; because the Ion cannon can not shoot through the shield, remember.

As for the fighters passing through the shields are volumetric in nature so the furture form the projector the weaker they are.

Err, no they aren't, where did you get this idea from?

Er, actually they do get weaker the closer you get to the projector. They are volumetric shields after all. Meaning they fill a volume. Watch ROTJ and see the frigate right up against the Executer's brim trench blasting away, and penetrating the Dreadnaught's shields. Your see it again in ROTS during the opening flyby. In TPM the naboo fighter get in close and take out a tower on the droid control ship, despite Nute's stating that " nothing can get through our shields" Finally, in Outbound flight Thrawn flys in close on a Trade Fed Battleship, exploiting the same weakness to when the day.

Yeah its a real weakness alright. Read AOTC: ICS - shields break up and disrupt incoming energy weapons. The farther away the weapon is fired from the more of the shields volume it has to penetrate and the more disrupted it is. Conversely if you avoid most of that intervening shield's volume your energy weapons will be less disrupted. I.e. If I get close enough I can more readily blast your ass. But by the same token my own shields have the same weakness.

Volumetric shielding effects can explain allot of seemingly odd occurances. Such as how the Falcon can take megaton hits from a distant ISD, and yet be endangered by TIE's that are straffing at close range.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-07 11:09am

Soontir C'boath wrote:
Nightbringer wrote:Well now you know that I wasn't denying their capabilities, as I just admitted that I didn't.
Yea, three days after I replied to you about it, huh. So all that time between the first apology, you just realized it?

1. This thread is in pure discussion mode. Your "joke" had no place here and even then refer to 2, 3, 4, and 5.
2. Your "joke" sucked; no creativity at all.
3. Your "joke" sucked so bad, I had to manhandled your ass about it when you did it again.
4. Your "joke" sucked so bad, that I wasn't alone in telling you about it.
5. The use of "teddy bears" is consistently used by people who think Ewoks are like those fuzzy stuffed animals; weak, peaceful, etc.
6. Shut up and leave this thread alone. It's about shields not your whining.

I WAS talking about shields until you got upset about my comment. You started a needless argument and when I explained myself you kept on going, I think you are the whiner, not me.

P.S Don't talk about my arse you queer.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-04-07 12:03pm

Darth Tanner:

Star Destroyers do have missile weapons; Pelleon uses them in the Hand of Thrawn books against pirates in his A-wing slash manoeuvre, admitting they are easy to shoot down unless you trick you opponent into turning your turrets the wrong way.

Post-ROTJ some ISD's like the Chimera were modified to carry missile launchers. But at the time of the Battle of Hoth, no ISD did. Neither WEG, WOTC, or ICS credits the ISD with missiles. That the Chimera does only means that that specific ship was modified to carry missiles. Similarly, no Executer class outside the Lusankya mounted missile weapons. That is unless there a SW Gamer out their that corrects that oversight.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-07 02:58pm

Spartan (Thanks for the tip!) wrote:

Post-ROTJ some ISD's like the Chimera were modified to carry missile launchers. But at the time of the Battle of Hoth, no ISD did. Neither WEG, WOTC, or ICS credits the ISD with missiles. That the Chimera does only means that that specific ship was modified to carry missiles. Similarly, no Executer class outside the Lusankya mounted missile weapons. That is unless there a SW Gamer out their that corrects that oversight.

The ICS also has no mention of lighter weapons on an ISD 1 than the heavy turbolasers, dorsal mounts etc. Does this mean they don't exist? Nope. Why would the Imperial designers NOT equip their most powerful mass-production star ship with missiles? Where is the evidence for your idea that the Chimaera was later refitted with launchers?

Spartan wrote:

Er, actually they do get weaker the closer you get to the projector. They are volumetric shields after all. Meaning they fill a volume. Watch ROTJ and see the frigate right up against the Executer's brim trench blasting away, and penetrating the Dreadnaught's shields. Your see it again in ROTS during the opening flyby. In TPM the naboo fighter get in close and take out a tower on the droid control ship, despite Nute's stating that " nothing can get through our shields" Finally, in Outbound flight Thrawn flys in close on a Trade Fed Battleship, exploiting the same weakness to when the day.

Every source I have ever seen about shields quotes them as being a single, physical barrier, not something that gets progressively harder to move through the closer you get to the ship. In RotJ you see the frigates weapons hitting the shield actually, which is skintight. This is repeated when the Hoth Ion cannon hits the ISD in TESB, and in the falcon chase in ANH, and I think when the falcon flies through an explosion in RotJ, and on the N1's shields in TPM, and...do you see where I'm going here? Show me the scene where a laser bolt slows down and dissipates in a shield.

Spartan wrote:

Volumetric shielding effects can explain allot of seemingly odd occurances. Such as how the Falcon can take megaton hits from a distant ISD, and yet be endangered by TIE's that are straffing at close range.

This can also be explained by the shields being at different strengths, a much more reasonable solution given the overwhelming other evidence, as I have stated.

Nightbringer wrote:

I WAS talking about shields until you got upset about my comment. You started a needless argument and when I explained myself you kept on going, I think you are the whiner, not me. Wink

P.S Don't talk about my arse you queer.

Here's a hint. Back down now.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2006-04-07 04:24pm

Concerning the shields on the Invisible Hand, if anyone knows how frequency-hopping radios work, both the transmitters and receivers are synchronized to rotate frequencies at set patterns, so that those listening in cannot know what frequency to tune in to. Perhaps the shields on that ship work in such a manner, so that Federation ships can enter and exit at will, while an enemy ship would be disintegrated.

Another possibility is that there were actually two shields over that opening; one that keeps in atmosphere, and one that snaps shut unless a friendly craft is entering or exiting. Perhaps Skywalker destroyed the "combat shield" emitter for the opening only after the Invisible Hand's main shields were down as a result of ongoing battle damage.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-07 05:28pm

I would tend to think that your second idea was a reasonable analysis, and a logical design, however IIRC once the shields went down, there was a definite loss of atmosphere. Clearly, there has to be SOME way of taking this shield down without decompressing the hangar, else objects could not enter or leave, so perhaps Skywalkers attack did damage to the secondary shield as well, making the door a last line of defense?

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-04-07 07:50pm

Nightbringer wrote:I WAS talking about shields until you got upset about my comment. You started a needless argument and when I explained myself you kept on going, I think you are the whiner, not me.

P.S Don't talk about my arse you queer.

Really?

Nightbringer wrote:The second death star's defences are more effecient in the sense that the shield generator cannot be destroyed from space, however, the defences on the Endor base were poor because of the fact that a small rebel force (with the help of a few teddy bears ) were able to penatrate it.

Tangent to the topic at hand from page one with the first mention of "teddy bears." No where is this post contributing to the thread about the characteristics of shields at all.

This is also the first post you made in the thread, you fucking retard.

Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears

This is the second time you mentioned it in page two which is continuing the previous tangent.

It was only then in this second incident that I started on your "teddy bear" bullshit, you retard.

The rest of your posts inbetween were consistent with the Endor tangent. Stay down and shut the fuck up, idiot.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-04-07 08:29pm

Lazarus wrote:Next time, read. I just fucking said that the torp spheres do indeed take advantage of areas in the shield that are about 20% weaker than other areas. THESE DOES NOT LET FIGHTERS THROUGH, THE SHIELD IS STILL THERE.
The ONLY source I am aware of that shows an interference zone actually allowing something through is in Tyrants Test, and that was between two completely different ships, who may have had different shield specifics. Therefore, for these type of shields (ie Bothawui, Coruscant), we should not use this source, but the other sources which directly describe a shield of this scale, ie Wedge's Gamble, Specter/Vision. The interference zones between these shields will only result in at the most a 20% decrease in power, not a 'hole'.

So you think the DS designers wouldn't care that their defenses didn't work very well? The station has a crew of BILLIONS, do you not think they might want to protect them? Why employ a LESS effective system when a superior system is available? It doesn't matter whether they thought fighters could do much damage, you don't build defense systems on this scale that you KNOW to be weak and easily circumvented, when a mcuh better version is available.

I did read what you said, the whole 20% thing is from wookiepedia and not very reliable, especially considering 500 torpedoes aren't going to get through a shield that can block a superlaser for a fraction of a second even if it is aimed at a spot 20% less powerful.
As for the DS shield not being as good as it could be, yeah it could have been better if they wanted to spend the money to put an expensive planetary shield type system on they also could have made the anti-starfighter defenses better, but starfighters weren't considered a threat so why spend the money to put a shield that will keep them from getting through when you won't even spend the money to tighten up your AAA. Not even IRL do militaries make their stuff the best it can be, its all about trade-offs.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-04-07 08:35pm

Spartan wrote:Post-ROTJ some ISD's like the Chimera were modified to carry missile launchers. But at the time of the Battle of Hoth, no ISD did. Neither WEG, WOTC, or ICS credits the ISD with missiles. That the Chimera does only means that that specific ship was modified to carry missiles. Similarly, no Executer class outside the Lusankya mounted missile weapons. That is unless there a SW Gamer out their that corrects that oversight.

Where did you get the idea that only the Lusy had missiles as far as I'm aware all Executors have missiles. Considering the Lusy and Executor are twins, I don't know why the Executor wouldn't have missiles.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-08 05:49am

Soontir C'boath wrote:
Nightbringer wrote:I WAS talking about shields until you got upset about my comment. You started a needless argument and when I explained myself you kept on going, I think you are the whiner, not me.

P.S Don't talk about my arse you queer.
Really?

Nightbringer wrote:The second death star's defences are more effecient in the sense that the shield generator cannot be destroyed from space, however, the defences on the Endor base were poor because of the fact that a small rebel force (with the help of a few teddy bears ) were able to penatrate it.
Tangent to the topic at hand from page one with the first mention of "teddy bears." No where is this post contributing to the thread about the characteristics of shields at all.

This is also the first post you made in the thread, you fucking retard.

Agreed, however, it does raise questions about the storm troopers battle capabilities, they are supposed to be elite yet ultimately, they lost to a force of Rebels they outnumbered greatly and a bunch of teddy bears
This is the second time you mentioned it in page two which is continuing the previous tangent.

It was only then in this second incident that I started on your "teddy bear" bullshit, you retard.

The rest of your posts inbetween were consistent with the Endor tangent. Stay down and shut the fuck up, idiot.

Yes, both of the posts you quoted contained me calling the Ewoks 'Teddy bears', but they were also relivent to what was being said at that time, so shut up you fucking weirdo, I apoligised for calling them teddy bears and told you I did not mean it literally, so I think you must be screwed in the head if you did not understand that.

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2006-04-08 09:03am

For a start watch who you call a queer you fucking breeder. If you have a problem with gay people say so in OT and your retarded prejudice can be dealt with there.

Back on topic I can remember one very specific incident when Imperial shields have been penetrated. In The Courtship of Princess Leia the Falcon got underneath the shields of Iron Fist and blew up it's bridge.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-08 09:12am

Lord Pounder wrote:For a start watch who you call a queer you fucking breeder. If you have a problem with gay people say so in OT and your retarded prejudice can be dealt with there.

Back on topic I can remember one very specific incident when Imperial shields have been penetrated. In The Courtship of Princess Leia the Falcon got underneath the shields of Iron Fist and blew up it's bridge.

I apoligise, I have no problem with gay people, I wont say it again

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-04-08 11:46am

Nightbringer wrote:Yes, both of the posts you quoted contained me calling the Ewoks 'Teddy bears', but they were also relivent to what was being said at that time, so shut up you fucking weirdo, I apoligised for calling them teddy bears and told you I did not mean it literally, so I think you must be screwed in the head if you did not understand that.

Um, Ewoks were relavent to the discussion of the characteristics of shields?

[Mencia]Amazingly retarded![/Mencia]

Thank you for proving that you are a dumbass once again.

Nightbringer · Post by **Nightbringer** » 2006-04-08 11:51am

Soontir C'boath wrote:
Nightbringer wrote:Yes, both of the posts you quoted contained me calling the Ewoks 'Teddy bears', but they were also relivent to what was being said at that time, so shut up you fucking weirdo, I apoligised for calling them teddy bears and told you I did not mean it literally, so I think you must be screwed in the head if you did not understand that.
Um, Ewoks were relavent to the discussion of the characteristics of shields?

[Mencia]Amazingly retarded![/Mencia]

Thank you for proving that you are a dumbass once again.

At that point they were relivant as we were discussing the defences of the Endor base. I'm sick of argueing but I said sorry before and it obviously wasn't good enough for you, what do you want? I'll remind you that I was talking about shields before you had a go at me.

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2006-04-08 12:12pm

Nightbringer wrote:At that point they were relivant as we were discussing the defences of the Endor base. I'm sick of argueing but I said sorry before and it obviously wasn't good enough for you, what do you want? I'll remind you that I was talking about shields before you had a go at me.

Wow.

Never have I met a retard with your magnitude.

Your first post read this:

The second death star's defences are more effecient in the sense that the shield generator cannot be destroyed from space, however, the defences on the Endor base were poor because of the fact that a small rebel force (with the help of a few teddy bears ) were able to penatrate it.

At this point, your the one that first brought up the Endor defenses in the first place and made the comment of "teddy bears" This is where you hijacked the thread. No one else previous to this post was anyone talking about Endor's defenses.

Your next six posts had nothing pertaining to the characteristics of the Death Star's shields. Merely continuing on your hijack about Endor's defenses in which on your sixth post you mentioned "teddy bears" again.

Absolutely nada para shields.

You are guilty of:

1. Every single post of yours had nothing to do with the characteristics of the shield.
2. Hijacking the thread.
3. Putting "teddy bears" along with your hijack.

I want humour which you're currently giving me now. I've said to you before that you should stop posting as well as one other person here, but if you want to continue to make me laugh so be it.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-08 01:17pm

In The Courtship of Princess Leia the Falcon got underneath the shields of Iron Fist and blew up it's bridge

Hadn't a hapan battle dragon knocked out its shields before Solo blew up the bridge?

kiss my wookie indeed!

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-04-08 05:45pm

The Courtship of Princess Leia, Bantam paperback, page 361 wrote: Han looked to see which port the tractor beam was pulling him toward. In half a second he spotted it, waited until he figured he'd passed through the ship's particle shields, then fired two of his concussion missiles.

So while the Falcon was below Iron Fist's shields it looks like
a)that was deliberate on the part of Iron Fist as they were tractoring the Falcon in, but
b) the term 'passed through' ALSO indicates Iron Fist did NOT simply drop that shield section,
so there must be means to get a ship through a raised particle shield, be it via opening a window in it, moving it through shield section boundaries, or simply by doing so slowly enough.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-08 06:03pm

There is a mention in the beginning of HttE about 'dropping hangar shields', suggesting these are a sub-unit to the other shields on an ISD. I take this quote to mean he has passed through the area where the other shields are still up, lateral to the Falcon's position. If he had fired before, even though the shields directly towards the Fist from him were down, the shields in front of his target were still up.

We know from other sources that a solid object can't pass through particle shields, no matter its speed, except theatre shields, which due to their ground contact nature allow objects in contact with the ground through.

If there were any exploitable holes in the Fist's shields, they would already have been used by the Rebels. In Solo Command, Operation Parasite involved crashing a TIE onto the hull of the Fist, so it could be beneath the shields of the vessel, and hit its shield projectors. If there were holes, there would have been no need for this plan.

I did read what you said, the whole 20% thing is from wookiepedia and not very reliable, especially considering 500 torpedoes aren't going to get through a shield that can block a superlaser for a fraction of a second even if it is aimed at a spot 20% less powerful.

So saying there was a hole, what then would the 500 torpedoes do? It is specifically stated the purpose of a TS is to bring down the shields long enough to hit the generators/projectors, if there were holes this wouldn't be needed.
Can't anyone see the retardedness behind this whole 'holes' idea? If there was a hole in the DS shield large enough for a fighter group to fly through, then that hole is large enough to fly multi gigaton warheads through, enough of which will take big enough chunks out of the DS to pose a very definite problem, especially if they hit the superlaser. Given the lack of effectiveness against small targets of the DS point defense systems, flying warheads through these holes would surely be an easy way of disabling the DS.

Surely I have provided enough in the way of a counter argument here, so isn't it time somebody gave evidence of a situation where a shield, of the approximate type that could have been deployed on the DS, had these 'holes' in? The only evidence given so far is between two entirely different shield systems, which is hardly the same thing.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2006-04-08 06:32pm

Lazarus wrote:There is a mention in the beginning of HttE about 'dropping hangar shields', suggesting these are a sub-unit to the other shields on an ISD. I take this quote to mean he has passed through the area where the other shields are still up, lateral to the Falcon's position.

And I take this quote to mean what it says, namely, tha the falcon passed through the particle shields.

If he had fired before, even though the shields directly towards the Fist from him were down, the shields in front of his target were still up.

And the evidence for that is?

We know from other sources that a solid object can't pass through particle shields, no matter its speed

Excuse me? It was done in Tyrant's Test, as was mentioned before.

If there were any exploitable holes in the Fist's shields, they would already have been used by the Rebels.

'Not exploitabe by capships' and 'nonexistant' aren't the same you know. The guys on Iron Fist will know where the weak points/windows are going to be. If it's a speed issue missiles are going to die trying to exploit it.

In Solo Command, Operation Parasite involved crashing a TIE onto the hull of the Fist, so it could be beneath the shields of the vessel, and hit its shield projectors. If there were holes, there would have been no need for this plan.

Because those holes are naturally going to be several kilometres wide.

I did read what you said, the whole 20% thing is from wookiepedia and not very reliable, especially considering 500 torpedoes aren't going to get through a shield that can block a superlaser for a fraction of a second even if it is aimed at a spot 20% less powerful.
So saying there was a hole, what then would the 500 torpedoes do? It is specifically stated the purpose of a TS is to bring down the shields long enough to hit the generators/projectors, if there were holes this wouldn't be needed.
If those wholes were huge and did NOT need a slow penetration speed to exploit.
Can't anyone see the retardedness behind this whole 'holes' idea?
No. Likely because there is none.
If there was a hole in the DS shield large enough for a fighter group to fly through,
you mean a fighter group going slow, that might have used shield interaction to aid it, and canonically had penaids?
then that hole is large enough to fly multi gigaton warheads through,
Which everybody knows the Rebels had by the truckload,
enough of which will take big enough chunks out of the DS to pose a very definite problem, especially if they hit the superlaser.
'Enough of' being a 7-figure number. Low end. The launch vehicles of which the DS could deal with with impunity long before they ever got withing firing range. Still ignoring the speed issue, possible shield interaction, and canon penaids.
Given the lack of effectiveness against small targets of the DS point defense systems, flying warheads through these holes would surely be an easy way of disabling the DS.

If the launching ships ever got withing firing distance, missiles had penaids, and could slow down the way fighters can.