Elder Scrolls Oblivion review

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2006-04-09 03:31pm

MAYBE SPOILERS I DON'T KNOW

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:Morrowind knocks the socks off of Oblivion. TESIII was a slow, epic build-up of power, resources, and fame across Vvardenfell, all culminating in a truly titanic battle (well, if you didn't twink your character before fighting Dagoth Ur, anyways). You are Saint Nerevar and everybody knows it... except you, perhaps, because it is left fairly ambiguous whether it's all an ancient prophecy fulfilled, a convenient set of coincidences, or a fiendishly clever Imperial intelligence op (Azura seems to think the first, but I doubt she really cares as long as the mess is cleaned up, nor is she necessarily omniscient anyways).

I prefer to think that you really are Nerevar incarnate, but the fact that it's open to question is enough to make that segment of the story miles ahead of anything in Oblivion. The more I think about the lore behind TESIII the more I think it might be the best writing of any RPG. There's all this depth beneath the surface that you can find out, and the more you know the more fascinating it becomes.

By comparison Oblivion is extremely two dimensional. You're this guy, and you have to close these gates and recover some items... yup.

I think the most telling comparison is each game's "final reward" for completing the main quest. In Morrowind, as you exit Red Mountain, Azura herself appears incarnate in front of you and hands you her ring. This is fucking awesome--the Daedra 'Goddess' whom your character is champion of appears in person to congratulate and praise you. Maybe it did more for me because I concieved of my Nerevarine as worshipping, fearing, and loving Azura as his goddess, but it's still pretty awesome.

Meanwhile, the main quest reward in Oblivion is this guy (Ocato) who you probably met for the first time ten minutes ago telling you to come back in two weeks to pick up your armor. Hmm...

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2006-04-09 04:00pm

Pretty much that summons up my problems with the game as well.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-09 07:54pm

I don't really have much of an issue with you being the Nerevarine in Morrowind and just being a Knight of the Blades in Oblivion- the only way you could outdo Morrowind is think up another highly improbable religious prophecy, and that's just not plausible for me.

I've begun to hit the really obvious "levelled" zone, and to tell the truth though it bothers me somewhat, on the sort of level where "dude, you're asking me for 100 gold and you're toting around a glass warhammer?" it isn't extremely frustrating- I still feel superior to the randomized losers I fight, so far I've got the impression that they're levelled within reason (equipment issues aside) and that they're still just walking bags of lubricant for my sword- exactly how it should be.

One thing though-

I FUCKING HATE CLANNFEARS. Seriously, the most fucking annoying enemy in the game, next to Will-o-the-Wisps. They do shitloads of damage even when you block, their jumping attack has absurd range, and they have like a 99% chance to stagger you even if you do a successful block, setting them up for another series of attacks.

On brighter news, I just got Spellbreaker for Periyte and Volendrung from Malacath last night. I've already gotten the Skeleton Key from Nocturnal, and the Ring of Khajiti from Meridia. Next on the list, Azura's Star. (I'm level 16, so can't do some of the daedric shrine quests yet).

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-04-09 08:12pm

My biggest gripe is that the monsters I encouter on the roads and in the wilderness ALWAYS go for my horse! And its really fucking annoying when three of the gang up and kill your trusty mount before you can do a god damn thing. This has been the cause of 99% of my reloads, and its pissing me off.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-09 08:16pm

Arrow wrote:My biggest gripe is that the monsters I encouter on the roads and in the wilderness ALWAYS go for my horse! And its really fucking annoying when three of the gang up and kill your trusty mount before you can do a god damn thing. This has been the cause of 99% of my reloads, and its pissing me off.

Well, it's not like it's unrealistic, though I must say it only happens to me sometimes and even when it does, my horse has never died from it- heh- I'm still using the horse from Weynon Priory, I don't see why I should shell out for another one when I can get Shadowmere for free later.

Seggybop · Post by **Seggybop** » 2006-04-09 08:23pm

Scaled leveling wouldn't be quite so horrible if it actually acheived its purpose (the prevention of you becoming an untouchable god). Too bad you can still do that in Oblivion, and in less time than it would have taken to level up in Morrowind. 100% chameleon ftw.

There will always be ways to become uber in this type of game if you want to. All Bethesda did with this system is remove variety or motivation to explore.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2006-04-10 12:29am

Vympel wrote:I FUCKING HATE CLANNFEARS. Seriously, the most fucking annoying enemy in the game, next to Will-o-the-Wisps. They do shitloads of damage even when you block, their jumping attack has absurd range, and they have like a 99% chance to stagger you even if you do a successful block, setting them up for another series of attacks.

If you level up a few more times you'll never see them again, except occasionally if they're summoned by a Dremora wizard. I agree that the Clannfears are incredibly annoying; the part about them that bugged me the most was their "block" stance--they sort of lean their face a little forward. The annoyance from this is two-fold; firstly because it wouldn't fucking work since the part of the face that I was hitting them in for damage is still right fucking there, they aren't actually blocking anything at all; secondly because it's so hard to spot. You'll be bitch-slapping a clannfear when suddenly you're staggered because he blocked without your noticing. Blech.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 10:00am

Just did an awesome quest in Bravil- for those who haven't done it, ask around about a woman who's lost her husband. She'll tell you he had bad debts and a usurer probably made him disappear. You go speak to the usurer and .. well, let's just say by the end of it- ever seen Hard Target?

Great little sidequest. I really think the Oblivion sidequests kick the crap out of those of Morrowind.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-04-10 10:08am

I'm going to have to agree. The sidequests, by and large, are more fun and in-depth than many of the sidequests in Morrowind.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-10 10:12am

That 'Hard Target' mission was neat, but by the time I got there it was too easy (even with the scaling). The AI simply can't handle my 'step in, zap, step back' method of fighting, and with WIL 98 and the cheapness of touch spells I can literally fight in this way indefinately.

The last guy had some killer equipment, though - are the items fixed? I got water-walk boots, and a shield shield.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 10:18am

Stark wrote:That 'Hard Target' mission was neat, but by the time I got there it was too easy (even with the scaling). The AI simply can't handle my 'step in, zap, step back' method of fighting, and with WIL 98 and the cheapness of touch spells I can literally fight in this way indefinately.

The last guy had some killer equipment, though - are the items fixed? I got water-walk boots, and a shield shield.

No, items aren't fixed. Last guy I fought was in full vanilla Ebony, which I happily took from him (I only needed the cuirass though)- did I mention how much I love my carry weight mod? Makes things so much easier (I restrict the amount of weapons I carry by choice so as not to flaunt "realism" too much).

What level were you when you had WIL 98, anyway? My willpower is total shit- that's what I get for choosing the warrior class and not making a custom one with a major skill in restoration and some intelligence based skills.

EDIT: that might not be the last guy you mean though. The other last guy was in full elven with some magic parts, just some fire resistance, nothing special.

I love Spellbreaker, did I mention?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-10 10:23am

Um, I was in the late teens. I use Destruction and Restoration pretty much constantly, so it goes up pretty fast. My INT is only like 70 or something and it started at 50.

Yeah, I mean the 'I am changing the deal' guy.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 10:38am

FFS!!! My quicksave is fucking corrupted. Now I have to do that quest all over again. I swear to god, the item spawns better be similar.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-04-10 10:50am

What about your autosave? Shouldn't it be towards the end of the quest?

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2006-04-10 11:12am

Vympel wrote:What level were you when you had WIL 98, anyway? My willpower is total shit- that's what I get for choosing the warrior class and not making a custom one with a major skill in restoration and some intelligence based skills.

Most of the default classes are horrible and warrior really stands out for that because it has all three melee skills when you're really only going to use one.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 11:17am

Hotfoot wrote:What about your autosave? Shouldn't it be towards the end of the quest?

I turned off autosave very recently- regretting it

I'll turn it back on.

My normal save was just before I went in, so yeah, I did the quest again just now- didn't take very long this time, and the loot was basically identical give or take what kind of enchanted weapon x or y was.

Most of the default classes are horrible and warrior really stands out for that because it has all three melee skills when you're really only going to use one.

True that- I did notice that in the beginning, but thought with all the stuff I was hearing about levelling, I could take advantage of the blunt/hand-to-hand being major skills by upping them as I see fit later, so that I could control my levelling a bit more.

My next character will have Restoration and one intelligence based skill as major skills instead.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-04-10 11:18am

Pablo Sanchez wrote:
Vympel wrote:What level were you when you had WIL 98, anyway? My willpower is total shit- that's what I get for choosing the warrior class and not making a custom one with a major skill in restoration and some intelligence based skills.
Most of the default classes are horrible and warrior really stands out for that because it has all three melee skills when you're really only going to use one.

They probably should have just made one class for each melee skill, but meh. I always make a custom class anyway, more fun.

Of course, I'm going to try that more organic levelling mod, so classes sort of go out the window in a sense from that point on.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 11:30am

At this point, I'm still not too bothered by the levelling. I'm kinda enjoying it really. How it ends up when I'm near the end of the game will determine if I try any of the levelling mods in my next run through (providence willing, on my new PC).

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-04-10 11:33am

Well, to be fair, it is horribly broken. Had I been smarter about using the power build, I would have torn through the game in a flash (granted, I'm too much of a sidequest whore for that), but the fact that you can have an attack, defense, block, and choice magic skills at 100 by level 2, well....you can see where it gets broken.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 11:56am

Hotfoot wrote:Well, to be fair, it is horribly broken. Had I been smarter about using the power build, I would have torn through the game in a flash (granted, I'm too much of a sidequest whore for that), but the fact that you can have an attack, defense, block, and choice magic skills at 100 by level 2, well....you can see where it gets broken.

Woah. How'd you manage that?

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-04-10 12:05pm

Vympel wrote:Woah. How'd you manage that?

Put guff skills in your majors and never sleep.

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-04-10 12:05pm

Simple. The only skills that matter for levelling in the stock game are the major skills. Ten skill levels from major skills = level up.

Put the skills you REALLY want as minor skills. Put skills you almost NEVER use as major.

Level up the minor skills until the cows come home. You'll be a kick-ass level 2 master in anything you want. It may take a while, but the game's super-action level challenge will send wussy level two guys against someone with 100 heavy/light armor, 100 blade/blunt/melee, 100 destruction/restoration/whatever, 100 block badass if you pull it off right.

Then you can blaze through the story mode and murder everything and everyone. If you have 100 alchemy as well, you really don't need to worry about the fact that you've got slightly less hitpoints than normal - I don't think anything does more than 100 in one hit anyway.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-10 12:13pm

I don't know why anyone would want to do that though. I mean, sure, it's an exploit, but- I don't see why you'd bother.

Come to think of it- couldn't you do the same in Morrowind, with the exception that there wasn't the enemy levelling?

(as it stands, you can still bite off more than you can chew in Oblivion, I've been in some fights I clearly was not meant to win).

Hotfoot · Post by **Hotfoot** » 2006-04-10 12:20pm

Because it can also be used to slow down the levelling in the game. It originally came from a workaround for skills that levelled WAY TOO FAST in Morrowind, like Athletics, Acrobatics, Sneak, and so on.

After that, people realized it could be used as a way to further cheese out the game. It's also proof that the levelling system used in TES is ridiculously broken and in dire need of revision. But you see, it gets better. The OTHER purpose to this exploit is to maximize your attributes. See, your attribute bonuses come from how many skills linked to the attribute you've levelled. If you work out in advance what skills you want to increase each level, you can get sweet, sweet, +5 bonuses to three skills of your choice.

The mod Pablo linked to, in my opinion, looks like a great compromise. I don't know how well it handles higher levels, but it definately looks like a more sensible advancement system than the current batch.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-04-10 12:22pm

Vympel wrote: Come to think of it- couldn't you do the same in Morrowind, with the exception that there wasn't the enemy levelling?

Oh yes, however, in Morrowind it was less of an advantage. You could do it in Daggerfall as well (which also had level scaling).

The only trouble was that you didn't regenerate magicka, so you had to live off potions even more, or use the Atronach as your sign.

I don't see the point to doing it that way though, as long as you are levelling up because of skills that will help you deal with the higher level enemies. (I would, for example, never put Sneak, Armorer, Speechcraft, or Alchemy as a Major). My character is Level 28, has Heavy Armour at 100, and 100 endurance. I can tank almost anything, up to and including three guys in Daedric armour with enchanted weapons, if I charge my sword up (mostly I don't need to, a Daedric longsword is enough on its own)..