Ewok evolution/technology

[Darth Tanner]

Okay this is about what I consider to be an anomaly in Ewok evolution/technology.

We know that the Ewoks have ready access to both catapults and gliders, technology that we achieved roughly two and a half millennia ago. Also they have other technologies that we achieved earlier.

Glider – China – 500BC by Lu Ban
Catapult – Greece – 400BC by Dionysius the Elder
Bows – Germany – 9000BC (ish)

Also they appear to have an incredibly understanding of construction technology to be able to construct tree houses on such a scale, constructing entire cities in the treetops.

However in terms of appearance the Ewok appears to be considerably more primitive (than us anyway), assuming that they are both primates and will follow a similar evolutionary path as us then they are well over 1 million years behind us as we lost our body hair at least 1.2 million years ago, as well as a considerable growth spurt throughout this process.

Possible issues that would impact this are that;
a) The globally temperate forest environment – there are no apparent ice caps and the entire land mass appears to be covered by forest, giving preference to a species with fur for protection from thistles & camouflage. (Ignoring the Ewok Adventure, which shows the presence of a varied ecosystem that isn’t visible form orbit!)
b) The Ewoks have both fire and clothing; this should set up body hair as an evolutionary dead weight, as it did with us.
c) Endor is a moon, although we don’t know the exact size it is logical to assume its smaller than the earth so the gravity should be lighter This could explain the size of the trees but this means that the Ewoks should be taller by nature. (Unless you involve the Ewok Adventures in which their size could be considered a defence measure against Goraks)
d) Ewoks stand up straight! they dont hunch as we did when we were furry and continued to do so for atleast a few millenia after that.

Okay so what do you think? Are Ewoks much more inteligent than our ancestors were or are they simply different?

Am I stupid to assume that Ewoks will follow our own evolutionary chain? Something which I think is roughly supported by the general humanoid nature of Star Wars species which lose body hair, with the exception of Wookies/Talz ect, but these are generally given technology, rather than creating it themselves (being slaves for example)

[Cao Cao]

Am I stupid to assume that Ewoks will follow our own evolutionary chain? Something which I think is roughly supported by the general humanoid nature of Star Wars species which lose body hair, with the exception of Wookies/Talz ect, but these are generally given technology, rather than creating it themselves (being slaves for example)

No, the wookies developed their own technological and space faring society on their own.
The very reason the CIS was knocking on their doorstep was not only to annex them but to acquire their meticulous hyperspace charts in order to gain an advantage over the Republic.

Edit - Here are the specific details:

History of Hostility
For 20 years, the Wookiees of Kashyyk and it's colony worlds have repeatedly repelled encroachements by the greedy Trade Federation. In this new period of unrestrained war, Confederacy invaders now bypass the colonies and attempt a conclusive strike on the Wookiee homeworld.

....

Strategic World
Kashyyk, or "Wookiee Planet C" as some humans call it, has long played a major role in transgalactic shipping and communications. For centuries, an elite guild of long-lived Wookiee cartographers known as the Claatuvac have maintained and updated the hyperspace route surveys that keep the galaxy navigable. It is widely believed that the Claatuvac Guild's ancient data archives contain many near-mythical, long-lost routes that do not feature on the Republic's official charts. Conquering Kashyyk would enable the Seperatists to control hyperspace route planning and to use the Wookiees' secret routes to frustrate and monopolize galactic trade and communication.

As for Ewoks, their small size no doubt has to do with the many predators on Endor. Loathe as I am to consider the cartoons and Ewok movie as evidence, it does make sense.

[Elheru Aran]

Yes. You're stupid. The Ewoks are hairy little teddy bears, yes; however, this in no way impacts their intelligence.

Example: Bushmen are short little wrinkled brown people, and the farthest their technology got before the colonizers of Africa arrived was bows and arrows; therefore, they are less intelligent than the white men wearing armour, cloth, with fire-sticks and fire-water.

See where your logic fails?

[Noble Ire]

Possible issues that would impact this are that;
a) The globally temperate forest environment – there are no apparent ice caps and the entire land mass appears to be covered by forest, giving preference to a species with fur for protection from thistles & camouflage. (Ignoring the Ewok Adventure, which shows the presence of a varied ecosystem that isn’t visible form orbit!)

Your assumption here is highly flawed. We see Endor very briefly, at a distance, and only its DS-ward side at that. Using your reasoning, I could look at a picture of Earth with Africa in prominence, and safely assume that the planet's entire landmass is desert. In any event, even disregarding the Ewoks cartoons, there are several other sources that demonstrate that Endor does indeed have a varied, if forest-dominated, ecosystem, among the Illustrated Star Wars Universe.

[LeftWingExtremist]

I must say that I find it interesting that they managed advanced weapons and technology like catapults and hang gliders before any form of metalurgy.

However think this could be due to the simple lack of workable metals on the planet (like the Native American's lack of iron).

[Cykeisme]

b) The Ewoks have both fire and clothing; this should set up body hair as an evolutionary dead weight, as it did with us.

Hmm, I don't think the loss of body hair among humans is directly related to fire and clothing.

c) Endor is a moon, although we don’t know the exact size it is logical to assume its smaller than the earth so the gravity should be lighter This could explain the size of the trees but this means that the Ewoks should be taller by nature. (Unless you involve the Ewok Adventures in which their size could be considered a defence measure against Goraks)

Out of the question. Observational evidence indicates that Endor's gravitational field strength at surface level is very close to Earth's.
Your point about the evolutionary pressure of a predator leading toward smaller Ewoks is logical enough, though.

d) Ewoks stand up straight! they dont hunch as we did when we were furry and continued to do so for atleast a few millenia after that.

How'd you equate posture and intelligence?

[dworkin]

Endor and Yavin for that matter always struck me as the result of terraforming. Ewoks could easily be the neo-barb descendants of a ship crash or former slaves of a long dead empire, etc. Then, they are only be native in the sense that the Amerinds or Aborigines are natives. Spacefaring Ewoks were wiped ages ago and these guys got missed.

[loomer]

...The Battle For Endor. I know it's been ridiculed, but it shows that there is also a series of plains. It also shows a variety of animals and a slightly different society.

[Cykeisme]

Endor and Yavin for that matter always struck me as the result of terraforming. Ewoks could easily be the neo-barb descendants of a ship crash or former slaves of a long dead empire, etc. Then, they are only be native in the sense that the Amerinds or Aborigines are natives. Spacefaring Ewoks were wiped ages ago and these guys got missed.

Possible, certainly, but improbable. Occam's Razor, y'know? Hypothesis rejected

[phred]

IIRC there are predators on Endor that are in the 5-10m tall range. a good portion of their tech could come from a need to defend themselves against those threats.

The treehouse city and hangliders would have been developed to keep away from those creatures as much as possible.

The catapults and log traps would have been set up long before the empire got there as defenses for fields/domestic animals/anything else they felt was necessary to come down from the trees for

[VT-16]

I think it was stated somewhere that the log traps and catapults were built for that exact purpose, to defend against would-be predators such as the Gorax giant.

[Darth Tanner]

Ewoks could easily be the neo-barb descendants of a ship crash or former slaves of a long dead empire

Possible, this is one of the big problems viewing evolution in the Star Wars universe as cultural/genetic/technological contamination from other species should be fairly common with the quantity of space travel going on.

How'd you equate posture and intelligence

From looking at out own evolution aswell as the status of Star Wars creatures. All of them stand up reasonably straight (I think?) and the primitive natives on dantooine are hunched in the literature I believe.

Your assumption here is highly flawed. We see Endor very briefly, at a distance, and only its DS-ward side at that. Using your reasoning, I could look at a picture of Earth with Africa in prominence, and safely assume that the planet's entire landmass is desert.

Actually if looking at the Earth centered on Africa (I used Google Earth for this) you can see the difference between the rainforest areas and the deserts. The picture of endor I looked at is a constant green all over with the exception of the small seas. Although I accept you point as it is indeed possible that the axis is at such a degree that the deserts depicted in the Ewok adventure are on the other side of the planet and the ice caps are not in view.

Incidently you can only see the ice caps on earth when looking at Africa by being 300km or more away

[Lord Pounder]

I must say that I find it interesting that they managed advanced weapons and technology like catapults and hang gliders before any form of metalurgy.

However think this could be due to the simple lack of workable metals on the planet (like the Native American's lack of iron).

IIRC Truce at Bakura states that Endor is very poor in ore. Leia was regretted taking a metal bracelet from the Ewok chief because that one small braclett represented a large portion of their mineral wealth, I'd dig up a quote but i let that book to an old friend and never saw it again.

[loomer]

I'll dig that quote up for you.

Edit- Or I would if I could bloody find the book.

[dworkin]

Possible, certainly, but improbable.

How is it improbable in a galaxy swarming with cultures capable of terraforming planets and moons and building habitats on gas giants? More improbable than a gas giant moon spontaneously developing human compatible conditions?

Occam's Razor, y'know? Hypothesis rejected

You mean, "One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything."

The entities already exist in the SW galaxy for extensive terraforming of environments. For a moon such as Endor/Yavin, postulating the many wierd and novel circumstances which leads to the natural occurrance of Conifer forests and sientient teddy bears is a violation of both Occam's Razor and parsimony.

Places like Endor and such in SW seem unrealistic until you factor in the galactic culture which can make such artifacts.

[Elheru Aran]

You forget that terraforming is highly expensive and time-consuming (re the novel in which they state that terraforming Caamas would bankrupt the Bothans). It makes no sense for a civilization, even if more highly developed than the Old Republic or Empire, to terraform two out-of-the-way moons orbiting gas giants. Now, if said moons were terraformed because they were intended to be colony worlds for a human population, then fine; however, that's a pretty big assumption.

[Crazedwraith]

It only would've bakrupted the bothans because they'd screwed up their economy during the wars and were lying about it to the NR.

The Bothan's should've been able to do it if they were operated properly.

[CaptainChewbacca]

^The same book says that full-scale terraforming was done only a handfull of times under the Old Republic.

[Darth Tanner]

yes in KOTOR 2 the entire Republic can barely afford to terraform one planet, and thats with considerable private investment and Ithorian technology and talent.

The main point is why would you go to all that expence, only to abandon the world to primitives?

[Cos Dashit]

Could not another species landed on the planet and showed them catapults, bows, etc.? This would have boosted their mechanical evolution, but their physical evolution would still continue at the same speed.

[nightmare]

Could not another species landed on the planet and showed them catapults, bows, etc.? This would have boosted their mechanical evolution, but their physical evolution would still continue at the same speed.

It seems rather unlikely that a spacefaring civilization would show the Ewoks bows.

[Noble Ire]

yes in KOTOR 2 the entire Republic can barely afford to terraform one planet, and thats with considerable private investment and Ithorian technology and talent.

IIRC, Republic funding for the project was minimal, as they were far more occupied with rebuilding other, more important sectors and planets after the War of the Star Forge. It doesn't really show the body's true capabilities either way.

The main point is why would you go to all that expence, only to abandon the world to primitives?

Perhaps an ancient, long vanished race did it. Perhaps it was simply forgotten after one of the dozens of wars that racked the Republic in its youth. Perhaps its a corporate venture, lost in red tape when the company went belly up. There are plenty of possible explanation; in the grand scheme of things, a single, non-human inhabited moon on the Outer Rim doesn't rate very high on any list of priorities.

[Cao Cao]

yes in KOTOR 2 the entire Republic can barely afford to terraform one planet, and thats with considerable private investment and Ithorian technology and talent.

IIRC, Republic funding for the project was minimal, as they were far more occupied with rebuilding other, more important sectors and planets after the War of the Star Forge. It doesn't really show the body's true capabilities either way.

Also Telos had been glassed by the Sith. So on top of normal terraforming there's the removal of technological debris, toxic pollution, etc. which would make the whole project take far longer.

[NeoGoomba]

Did "The Battle for Endor" take place before or after RotJ? If before, then no doubt captured Ewok physicists and engineers created the blasters and armor that poor man's Skeletor's group of misfits were using.

[Darth Tanner]

lol