Republic democracy

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2006-04-10 08:00am

How is the supreme chancellor of the Republic normally elected? Is he elected by vote among the senators or an election where the public votes like how presidents and prime ministers are elected in most countries?

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-10 08:56am

I believe that he is elected by the Senators not by the people, as Palpatine is during Episode 1. It is not clear to me however if the public vote for their senator or they are appointed by the planet government as Amidala says the queen wont let her be senator if she is pregnant, indicating the queen appoints her. However Obiwan does say that senators only care about those who fund their campaigns, i assue electoral campgains, so maybe they are elected and Amidala gets her electoral funding from the queen.

Not very democratic either way but not too different from our system, in the UK the PM is not directly elected by the people, just the members of his party.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-04-10 09:48am

Darth Tanner wrote:I believe that he is elected by the Senators not by the people, as Palpatine is during Episode 1. It is not clear to me however if the public vote for their senator or they are appointed by the planet government as Amidala says the queen wont let her be senator if she is pregnant, indicating the queen appoints her. However Obiwan does say that senators only care about those who fund their campaigns, i assue electoral campgains, so maybe they are elected and Amidala gets her electoral funding from the queen.

Not very democratic either way but not too different from our system, in the UK the PM is not directly elected by the people, just the members of his party.

Padme took her position at the request of her people, indicating that they do have the power to elect their representative.
The Queen simply has the power to remove her from her position for health reasons.

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-04-10 11:22am

Cao Cao wrote:
Darth Tanner wrote:I believe that he is elected by the Senators not by the people, as Palpatine is during Episode 1. It is not clear to me however if the public vote for their senator or they are appointed by the planet government as Amidala says the queen wont let her be senator if she is pregnant, indicating the queen appoints her. However Obiwan does say that senators only care about those who fund their campaigns, i assue electoral campgains, so maybe they are elected and Amidala gets her electoral funding from the queen.

Not very democratic either way but not too different from our system, in the UK the PM is not directly elected by the people, just the members of his party.
Padme took her position at the request of her people, indicating that they do have the power to elect their representative.
The Queen simply has the power to remove her from her position for health reasons.

Which may be a Naboo thing, as IIRC they're big on democracy. As their population is relatively small compared to other planets or systems, it's more practical for them to operate that way. I can see local election/appointment systems being allowed to operate, as long as they do one thing-- set up a Senator for that particular planet or system.

AK_Jedi · Post by **AK_Jedi** » 2006-04-10 01:08pm

Its possible that the method of selecting the senators is left up to the individual planets. The republic allows their members to keep their individual governments, so it would seem likely that they leave the selection method up to the members. It would be pretty awkward if they had a democratically selected senator from a monarchy.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-10 02:42pm

Ak makes a good point, if a planet is governed by a monarchy or some other form of non-democratic government, then presumably the senator is chosen by the ruling body.

On another point, has anyone explained yet why some Republic planets are represented in the senate and others aren't? I would say sector capitals, but Naboo isn't one, and is really something of a backwater anyway.

Lord Revan · Post by **Lord Revan** » 2006-04-10 02:47pm

Lazarus wrote:Ak makes a good point, if a planet is governed by a monarchy or some other form of non-democratic government, then presumably the senator is chosen by the ruling body.

On another point, has anyone explained yet why some Republic planets are represented in the senate and others aren't? I would say sector capitals, but Naboo isn't one, and is really something of a backwater anyway.

Naboo is the Sector capital and (IIRC) a mid rim world (so while quite unimportant for larger scale of things it's not exactly a backwater system)

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-04-10 02:47pm

Lazarus wrote:Ak makes a good point, if a planet is governed by a monarchy or some other form of non-democratic government, then presumably the senator is chosen by the ruling body.

Or in the case of Bail Organa, he appoints himself.
Mr. Democracy in action.

On another point, has anyone explained yet why some Republic planets are represented in the senate and others aren't? I would say sector capitals, but Naboo isn't one, and is really something of a backwater anyway.

Naboo *is* the capital of the Chomell sector.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-10 02:58pm

how would appointment of senators work if a senator has to represent over a thousand systems? there would have to be some form of sector senate which elects the senator for the galactic senate in the same way as the chancellor is elected

DesertFly · Post by **DesertFly** » 2006-04-10 03:02pm

Besides capitals, it is more than likely that there are planets that have representation in the senate because they used to be important, but their influence has waned for whatever reason. It's already been shown that this isn't the case with Naboo, but I could easily see a planet being an important member of the Republic, and having a seat on the senate say, a thousand years ago, then having its population decline for whatever reason, (perhaps it was on a major hyperspace route, which moved away from it), thus leaving the planet with a fraction of the influence and power it once had, but still with a seat on the senate. Of course, there very well may be methods for removing senate membership from worlds in this sort of situation, as well as granting it to new ones.

Teleros · Post by **Teleros** » 2006-04-10 05:06pm

Most likely each world has its own custom - Naboo has an appointed Senator, Mon Calamari (or wherever) has a hereditary one, a corporation-run world sends a company rep, etc etc etc. I'd imagine popular opinion does play a part - after all this is politics, and the Republic is a democracy.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-04-10 05:29pm

The Galactic Senate is a unicameral body, following a palimentary system of government. The Supreme Chancellor is elect from the senate member by the senator themselves.

Naboo has an elected Monarcy. Its also the Sector capital. There are only 36 full member planets in the Sector. One would assume that all 36 planets have a vote as to who the Sector's senator will be. There is no reason to belief that the naboo decide for everyone else.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-10 09:13pm

only 36?

there were only 1000ish seats in the galactic senate hall so if the republic is 2,000,000 worlds then each seat represents 2000 worlds by shear number of planets. If its done by proportional population size then i'd assume a rim seat like Naboo would have far more planets in it as the population density is focused on the core. (Coruscant probably has more than one senator of its own)

However i agree with you that the senator must be elected by all of these planets

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-10 09:15pm

there were only 1000ish seats in the galactic senate hall so if the republic is 2,000,000 worlds then each seat represents 2000 worlds by shear number of planets. If its done by proportional population size then i'd assume a rim seat like Naboo would have far more planets in it as the population density is focused on the core. (Coruscant probably has more than one senator of its own)

Why do you assume that representation is based upon population density? After all, in the US Senate, New Hampshire possess the same influence (at least theoretically) as California, despite harboring only a faction of its population, size, and wealth.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-10 09:26pm

yes but your senate is secondary in importance to your congress (isnt it?)

In the UK the House of Commons is roughly proportional to population density. (House of lords arnt proportional to anything other than party donations)

I think in the NJO books Leia raises the point that some core worlds have more people in one city than a dozen sectors of the rim (in relation to military deployment) I know that small worlds need their representation protected but when one senator represents trillions of people and another represents a few million it starts to get rediculus.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-10 10:37pm

yes but your senate is secondary in importance to your congress (isnt it?)

No, the Senate is one part of Congress, along with the House of Representatives, each of which is tasked with different parts of the legislative process (and indeed, one could argue that the Senate is more important).

In the UK the House of Commons is roughly proportional to population density. (House of lords arnt proportional to anything other than party donations)

Why must the Galactic Senate follow the same system? Indeed, it is quite possible that their concept of Democracy is a good deal more centralized than ours, considering Palpatine's election.

I think in the NJO books Leia raises the point that some core worlds have more people in one city than a dozen sectors of the rim (in relation to military deployment) I know that small worlds need their representation protected but when one senator represents trillions of people and another represents a few million it starts to get rediculus.

The senators obviously do not represent comperable numbers of systems and constituents. It is never made clear exactly how representation sectors are chosen, but there does seem to be a disapparity in size, yes. However, that is not unprescedented in the real world; even a tiny nation like Monacco is represented in the UN in other international organizations, alongside far larger nations.

Darth Tanner · Post by **Darth Tanner** » 2006-04-11 07:18am

Ok i conceed your point.
I suppose it depends on what the Galactic Senate actually debates, the example of the UN is quite good as most nations arnt effected by it enough to care about equal representation but if the senate debates important things like taxation of trade routes (if it does things like this on a common basis) i'd imagine that there would be strong demand for equal representation.

If my memory of US politics class serves me right (sorry about messing up house of representative and congress) your budget has to be approved by the house of representatives, not the senate, which only really has power over presidential appointments & foreign treaties.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-11 06:28pm

If my memory of US politics class serves me right (sorry about messing up house of representative and congress) your budget has to be approved by the house of representatives, not the senate, which only really has power over presidential appointments & foreign treaties.

Its not quite that simple, but in essence yes; the House of Representatives oversees the creation and passage of budgets, bills, etc. pertaining to the general management of the nation, while the Senate is more focused, balancing the Executive branch by approving Presidental appointments, approving treaties, etc. The former is more active and involved in the country, although one could argue the Senate's powers are in the long run more significant.

However, since the Republic appears to be unicameral in nature, they must balance both duties.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2006-04-12 03:28pm

Isn't the SW senate more on the Roman model and Palpy's ascension to Imperator like what happened to the Roman Republic?

Watching the prequels twigged all sorts of memories from classical studies in High School.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-12 04:06pm

IIRC, the Roman senate is populated by people of power, who were not elected in any way. An early form of democracy, perhaps, in that absolute power was not in the hands of one man until the Emperor's came along, however the people were still not really represented.

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-04-12 04:20pm

Lazarus wrote:IIRC, the Roman senate is populated by people of power, who were not elected in any way. An early form of democracy, perhaps, in that absolute power was not in the hands of one man until the Emperor's came along, however the people were still not really represented.

No, I believe they were elected. While people of enormous wealth and political sway they still pretended to represent the people.
IIRC murals that turned out to be "campaign posters" have been found preserved in excavations of Pompeii. Unless my memory is really faulty, I think one of the campaign slogans was something like "vote for so-and-so! His grandmother will be disappointed if you don't.."

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-12 05:51pm

IIRC murals that turned out to be "campaign posters" have been found preserved in excavations of Pompeii. Unless my memory is really faulty, I think one of the campaign slogans was something like "vote for so-and-so! His grandmother will be disappointed if you don't.."

Those were actually for the "mayors" of the city (there were two at a time, I forget what they called them), not senate postions. Indeed, I am fairly certain Imperial Roman sentors were appointed by the Emperor, not elected, at least during certain periods (it probably changed from ruler to ruler).

Plushie · Post by **Plushie** » 2006-04-12 09:47pm

Perhaps Senators represent ancient tradition in that the original Galactic Senate was made up of all the original nation-states that formed the Republic, ie. Naboo's sector was, in the depths of galactic history, a star-nation that participated in the forming of the Republic. We know there have been shifts in this ideology (the Tales of the Jedi senate having a chamber that has to have sat hundreds of thousands, if not millions of senators), so perhaps, when the Republic was reinstated a thousand years ago they returned to the original model, reducing the number of senators (and the size of the bureaucracy).

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-13 06:06pm

Cao Cao, I am almost 100% sure that the Roman senators were not elected, see this description of the senate from wikipedia:

Tradition held that the Senate was first established by Romulus, the mythical founder of Rome, as an advisory council consisting of the 100 heads of families...The Senate had around 300 members in the middle and late Republic, membership could be stripped by the censors if a Senator was thought to have committed an act "against the public morals." Customarily, all magistrates -- quaestors, aediles (both curulis and plebis), praetors, and consuls -- were admitted to the Senate for life, but not all senators had been magistrates; those who were not were called senatores pedarii and were not permitted to speak. As a result, the Senate was dominated by established families of patricians and plebeians, as it was much easier for these groups to climb the cursus honorum and acquire speaking rights.

As I thought, the senators were members of powerful families, and were mostly members for life.

Tychu · Post by **Tychu** » 2006-04-15 11:48pm

I always had the impression that the Republic (Old) is like the Italian government and many European Parlamentary governments

The Prime Minister (Chancellor/ President of the Ministers) is elected by the Senators
*missing from the Republic is a president or (President of the Republic)

i mean if you think about it, Chancellor Palpatine was elected rather quickly, much to quickly for there to be a galactic wide vote by the citizens.