Red Steel/First Revo shots (Nintendo bashing here)

[Praxis]

I could say the same about America. I only care about worldwide numbers, and the worldwide numbers give the marketshares as being fairly close between XBox and GameCube.

You can discuss this as if you were the CEO of Nintendo all you like. As far as gamers are concerned, it means jack shit how much money they make. Wow, it's popular in Japan. Whoopdeedoo. I'm not in Japan, and the game selection everywhere else sucks donkey balls.

Then I don't get it. You were quoting his post where he tells you to find someone who found it uncomfortable. Why were you quoting that to respond if you weren't trying to prove discomfort?

Pretending that Metroid is a tradtional shooter, obviously.

Then so did the XBox.

No, it didn't. See, XBox gamers can still buy a shitload of quality games for their console. Gamecube can't say the same. Unless apparently, you're in Japan, which I (and you) am not.

Again: you are not a CEO of Nintendo, I am not a CEO of Microsoft, and how much profit they make means precisely dick when determing how good the system is from the perspective of a gamer, which is what this is all about.

Because the XBox and GameCube are in the same league in terms of marketshare. If you want to insist GameCube failed, then by your same standards of failure, the XBox failed too.

See above. Marketshare is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Where I live (and where most everyone else lives), the Gamecube has no presence, and no games). That makes it a failure.

See, this is where the arguement is diverging.

YOU are trying to argue over whether or not YOU liked the system. And whether or not the system was good for you. And if the system wasn't good for YOU, then the system was a failure.

I thought we were arguing over whether or not the system was a failure IN THE REAL WORLD. Because from a corporate standpoint, it was a disappointment (Nintendo's never been third place, even by 2%) but not a failure (most profitable of all systems on the market).

Marketshare and profits are all that is relevant in determining a system's success. Mostly profits. If something sucks but makes tons of money, it's still a success; look at Microsoft Windows.

[Praxis]

Nice exclusive lineup? All indications say check.

http://www.nintendoplayers.com/article. ... icleID=201

20 Titles for Revolution Launch?
Nintendo's George Harrison tells Game Informer about Nintendo's Revolution launch plans.
by Robert Hiskey

April 8, 2006 - In an interview in Game Informer magazine, George Harrison, Nintendo's Senior Vice President of Marketing and Corporate Communications, dished out some interesting details on the software side of Revolution's launch. Most noteworthy was the fact that he stated his expectation of 20 titles for Revolution at launch. Of those 20, he estimates that about one-third of the games will be first-party titles, published by Nintendo themselves. Based on those statements, it sounds as if Revolution with an impressive lineup of titles.

Harrison said that one of the things Nintendo learned from the launch of GameCube was that it is important to keep the titles coming steadily after launch, because the first few months of the console's existence is when most general opinions are formed and the console's reputation is established. Said Harrison, "You've got to deliver software, not just at launch, but you've got to deliver software in the first six to nine months after launch. It has to be solid software. In GameCube, we didn't have that, we had kind of a drought for six months after it launched. By that time your reputation starts to solidify and it's hard to reverse that after awhile."

Harrison also touched on a few other topics in the interview, such as the difficulties in marketing Revolution, which he compared to the...gasp...Virtual Boy, as he explained that showing software is not enough; the gameplay experience is more important. In addition, he mentioned that Nintendo will definitely include the "nunchaku" attachment with the console, and is contemplating the inclusion of a second controller as well. He also reiterated that the console and Virtual Console service would be affordable, but the actual price point for game downloads still has not been finalized.

We'll bring you more information on Revolution as it arrives leading up to E3 in May. Just one month from tomorrow, Nintendo will reveal all about Revolution during their E3 media briefing in Los Angeles, where Nintendo will be bringing you all the information live!

[Andrew J.]

Metroid isn't a shooter.

Even if you want to classify the Prime series as something other than an FPS-something I do myself-you have to admit that observations on the mechanics of using the controller to aim from a first-person perspective apply equally to "regular" FPS games as well, which is the whole point.

[Davis 51]

Praxis, you have made my day!

[TheBlackCat]

See above. Marketshare is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Where I live (and where most everyone else lives), the Gamecube has no presence, and no games). That makes it a failure.

I checked my local Best Buy today. Gamecube has 2/3 as much shelf space as the Xbox (hardly "no games"). This is compared to the PS2, which has more shelf space than the gamecube, XBOX, and XBOX 360 combined. Note that the shelves come in discrete pieces, GC has 2 pieces while the XBOX has 3. PS2 has like 6 or 7. Now I am no fan of the PS2, but if you consider GC having no games than you would probably have to say the same for the XBOX when you compare them to the PS2.

[felineki]

For gamers? Yes, it is. The dumbing down of games to appeal to mainstream morons is bad for every genre it infects.

You do realize that's already been happening for over a decade, right? Companies hardly ever make a game just for the sake of being a game anymore. Everything has to have cutting-edge graphics, and FMV's, and voice acting, and storylines, and yadda yadda yadda. The gameplay itself almost seems secondary in many cases.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I'm going to say, as a console and computer gamer, i dont dig this controler for the revolution.

If they ship the normal controler, i expect to be using it more than not while the other thingy takes up space on a shelf unless some cool game that requires it comes around, which i hope not because thats cheap tricks to get people to use the stupid controler weather they want to or not.

Unless Nintendo pulls some shit like that or shipping the normal controller seperate (i find both of these entirely likely and almost expected) i refuse to go into this Son of EyeToy crap for the same reason i refuse to pack my legs in dry ice. I dont have the time, and it's only going to hurt.

I'm not saying i wont get the system, i surely will, i'm as big a Nintendo fanboy as the next guy (also an XBox fanboy ironically) but just because i intend to buy the system doesnt mean i intend to indulge Nintendo in their retarded controler, sorry.

As for the graphics, i'll believe it when i see it in motion.

[TheBlackCat]

If they ship the normal controler, i expect to be using it more than not while the other thingy takes up space on a shelf unless some cool game that requires it comes around, which i hope not because thats cheap tricks to get people to use the stupid controler weather they want to or not.

There isn't a seperate "normal" controller, there is a shell that has the same functionality as a normal controller that the motion-sensetive controller plugs into (so still allowing motion-sensing functionality). That probably makes it cheaper since it can piggyback off the power supply, RF communication, and processing hardware of the motion-sensetive controller (so these components do no have to be duplicated in a second controller).

[mizuno]

I have some serious concerns with using a remote thingy as a 3d mouse:

1. How responsive will the controls be? Anyone who has every played with a laser pointer knows that even if you try and hold it perfectly still the red dot on the wall will still quiver and shake, so they'll have to filter these out.. hopefully not making it feel mushy like alot of the recent first person shooters. That is what I loved about all of id's quake engines as well as halflife 1's, the controls felt so responsive and natural. I have doubts about ubisoft getting it right

2. The revolution controller.. is like a phaser, no sights and you'll have to practice hard to aim well with it.. maybe that is why the crosshairs are so big in the screenshots? If I wanted to play a lightgun game I'll go to the arcade. I can't help but see this as a novelty gimick until it comes out and others try it out first

[Praxis]

2. The revolution controller.. is like a phaser, no sights and you'll have to practice hard to aim well with it.. maybe that is why the crosshairs are so big in the screenshots? If I wanted to play a lightgun game I'll go to the arcade. I can't help but see this as a novelty gimick until it comes out and others try it out first

It's not a lightgun game. You don't aim by pointing the controller at the screen. It moves with your movements and works like a mouse.

[mizuno]

Try rereading my point 1

[Praxis]

1. How responsive will the controls be? Anyone who has every played with a laser pointer knows that even if you try and hold it perfectly still the red dot on the wall will still quiver and shake, so they'll have to filter these out.. hopefully not making it feel mushy like alot of the recent first person shooters. That is what I loved about all of id's quake engines as well as halflife 1's, the controls felt so responsive and natural. I have doubts about ubisoft getting it right

I expect developers will choose. Some games might want perfect accuracy, while others might compensate for minute movements to prevent shakiness.

They said that the controller was EXTREMELY precise in several of the demos.

[18-Till-I-Die]

I still dont understand why a simple wireless wouldnt have been just as efficient. If this is all just to get non-gamers to play this system its a terribly flawed concept. Non-gamers, by definition, ARENT GAME PLAYERS they will NEVER spend the money, time or resources on this console that anyone in this thread will. They may, possibly, buy it for a friend, maybe play it over at a budy's house, but i cant imagine this causing some massive influx of non-gamers.

And more so, i simply dont believe online or magazine reviews. I cannot tell you how many games, consoles, etc got rave reviews, the reviewers' pants becoming rivulets of semen over such-and-such. Then you get it and...how do you quantify that "Wah-wah-waaaaaah" sound from cartoons? I guess thats how. So yeah its nice and all, but i'll hold my breath till i get it and try it out. If it works i'll be the first one to sing the praises of the thing. But i expect proof other than some guy being paid to say "Take my word for it!" saying "Take my word for it!" you know?

[Star-Blighter]

Marketshare and profits are all that is relevant in determining a system's success. Mostly profits. If something sucks but makes tons of money, it's still a success; look at Microsoft Windows.

For the hacks-er, I mean developers right? How many people do you see running servers on windows? A success for the company marketing the product doesn't always mean the product is a success for those who buy it. Of course, that brings us to one inevitable conclusion.

Vympel:

If you aren't satisfied with the product, don't buy it. Let all the other idiots waste money on the fucking thing and be satisfied that you didn't hit the same pit-fall. I'll judge the weird ass controller Nintendo presents based on it's own merrit, at a time of my choosing. If it works I'll gladly take it over the Xbox 360. Atleast the damn thing will run right I reckon...

[Xon]

Vympel's claim that profit != success is no doubt based off the loss that MS took when they sold the X-Box- but they recovered that loss, and more, thanks to selling games.

The Xbox was a sucess for Microsoft. They never did expect it to make money, rather to go from zero experence with consoles and zero market precence to being a major player in the console market.

Microsoft's biggest strengths are thier awesome ability to absorb what would normally be crippling losses. They make 3 billion profit a quarter. While 4 billion is a lot of money, is absolutely nothing over a 3 year period for Microsoft.

Breaking into the home entertainment system(which they have been trying since 1995 or there abouts) and stamping thier presence there for the next several decades is vastly more important to them than making money on thier 1st console.

[SirNitram]

Success of a console is based on the objectives of the maker. Microsoft's X-Box was a success because they got their foot in the door. The 360 is failing, though; why? It's failing to sell in the market they wanted, desperately, to get into, Japan.

Was the PS2 a success? Was the Gamecube? Neither company had huge aspirations beyond what they had. The profitability of the Cube and it's 1st party games undoutably made it a success for the stockholders.

The idea that a console is a success or failure based on one person's opinion is.. Well.. Flat out retarded.

[Jadeite]

“In many situations, there will be a higher-ranking enemy who commands the others in the area. By defeating him, and sparing his life, he will offer you his respect, and help. The enemies will surrender their guns, and the boss may offer you a new weapon, a special path, or another reward. Any time you spare an enemy, you will be rewarded. As it always takes more skill to spare a life, than to take it”

Sparing the lives of enemies? What sort of hippie bullshit is this?! Although I suppose you can always kill them after they give you shit.

Getting free shit + wanton massacre = the best.

[SAMAS]

“In many situations, there will be a higher-ranking enemy who commands the others in the area. By defeating him, and sparing his life, he will offer you his respect, and help. The enemies will surrender their guns, and the boss may offer you a new weapon, a special path, or another reward. Any time you spare an enemy, you will be rewarded. As it always takes more skill to spare a life, than to take it”

Sparing the lives of enemies? What sort of hippie bullshit is this?! Although I suppose you can always kill them after they give you shit.

Getting free shit + wanton massacre = the best.

Because they may also join your cause.

Sparing your life = I own you, bitch!

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Sparing the lives of enemies? What sort of hippie bullshit is this?!

It's called gameplay, scrote.

[Praxis]

I have to applaud Ubisoft for that. I'm not a fan of senseless violence for the sake of violence, one of the reasons I dislike GTA.

Giving you the option of shooting the gun out of your opponent's hand and sparing their life, and rewarding you for it, should help silence game critics somewhat.

Jack Thompson will probably find a way to decry it anyway

[Praxis]

Can any of the experts here tell from the screenshots if this is true? Or is it not clear enough?

Sources we spoke with suggest that it is unlikely the GPU will feature any added shaders, as has been speculated.

[Master of Ossus]

I have to applaud Ubisoft for that. I'm not a fan of senseless violence for the sake of violence, one of the reasons I dislike GTA.

The worst one was the original Rainbow Six series of games, where occasionally a terrorist who surrendered to you would get up and try and shoot you, again, REQUIRING you to execute even surrendered enemies just so they wouldn't come hunt you down when you weren't expecting them.

[Vympel]

Success of a console is based on the objectives of the maker. Microsoft's X-Box was a success because they got their foot in the door. The 360 is failing, though; why? It's failing to sell in the market they wanted, desperately, to get into, Japan.

Was the PS2 a success? Was the Gamecube? Neither company had huge aspirations beyond what they had. The profitability of the Cube and it's 1st party games undoutably made it a success for the stockholders.

If you're a stockholder, sure. I'm not, so I don't give a shit. What I do care about is a wealth of good gaming, and Gamecube didn't provide that, irrespective of it having a handful of good games. Third party developers abandoned it in droves, a trend that started with N64, and the few good games they did churn out were not enough. I just need to compare my library of Gamecube to PS2 games to see that. I didn't buy a Gamecube with the expectation that I'd own less than ten games for the thing, and I doubt anyone else did either.

The idea that a console is a success or failure based on one person's opinion is.. Well.. Flat out retarded.

No, calling it a success on metrics that mean absolutely dick to the gamer (i.e. it turned a profit) in a discussion in this context is retarded. I've noticed that noone has really deigned to tackle the issue of it's craptastic selection of games across genres besides apologetics that while its selection may be shite in some areas, in other areas its alright. Well, shit, other consoles have kickass franchises in all areas. That's what I care about.

[Dooey Jo]

Can any of the experts here tell from the screenshots if this is true? Or is it not clear enough?

Sources we spoke with suggest that it is unlikely the GPU will feature any added shaders, as has been speculated.

I assume that they mean pipelines and not actual shaders. Well, it's obvious that they using some kind of shader, because you can't get those kind of shadows on the models with normal gouraud shading (but you can with a slightly modified cel-shader). But you can do that stuff on the GameCube already (in fact, Twilight Princess might use such shaders), and what more pipelines basically do is that they increase the speed at which the shaders are processed and applied. So it's very difficult (if not impossible) to tell just from looking at pictures.

[Andrew J.]

If you're a stockholder, sure. I'm not, so I don't give a shit. What I do care about is a wealth of good gaming, and Gamecube didn't provide that, irrespective of it having a handful of good games. Third party developers abandoned it in droves, a trend that started with N64, and the few good games they did churn out were not enough. I just need to compare my library of Gamecube to PS2 games to see that. I didn't buy a Gamecube with the expectation that I'd own less than ten games for the thing, and I doubt anyone else did either.

For you it did not provide a wealth of good gaming. For many people all around the world and even in this thread, it did. That's why we don't use subjective data to determine success or failure. We use numbers: facts, figures, statstics. In this case, profit and market share.