Darth Wong wrote:You do know Arkady Hodge has a history of lying in order to break the association between his real-life name and the "McEwok" online username, don't you?
Lord Poe wrote:Nope, don't fall for it. McEwok is and always was Arkady Hodge.
The alleged "new" McEwok: "Paul Urquhart" is simply a pseudonym for Hodge. In this thread:
Wow, I can't believe I was naive enough to buy into that bullshit. My exposure to McEwok has been limited to some flame wars in TF.net and SW Wiki, and I never bothered to investigate that much into him. I bought into his BS because a lot of his TF.net buddies helped "confirm" it. This really says a lot about Hodge, and TF.net, doesn't it?
Vympel wrote:I'd simply get MoO's reply and edit it, in that case (with his permission of course)- he's said pretty much what needs to be said.
You can also refer to the RotS novelization- garrisonning all the Republic systems with clone troopers (who arrive with the governors)- but for all I know you've already mentioned that?
If anyone's interested, by all means edit and repost my response. I'd rather that no one got banned for it, though, so please take care to remove anything that could result in disciplinary action on the board(s) in question.
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Yeah, to anyone wanting to participate in that kind of debate, make sure you've got your bases covered before writing anything:
- Don't give her any incentive to throw out the "gender card".
- Don't swear. (Duh :P)
- Don't make any reference that could be constructed as a "personal attack" by the mods.
- Only refer to sources and people who wrote them.
- For fuck's sake, don't say anything in the vein of: "realistically, this would be idiotic". You know how much the retarded minimalists jump all over that one. If anything is stupid, it's good enough for SW, 'cus it's all fiction, Duh huh!
- Just refer to the vast number of battles being waged at the same time with more than 3 million troops present on both the ground(s) and in the massive spaceships at the same time.
Vympel wrote:I'd simply get MoO's reply and edit it, in that case (with his permission of course)- he's said pretty much what needs to be said.
You can also refer to the RotS novelization- garrisonning all the Republic systems with clone troopers (who arrive with the governors)- but for all I know you've already mentioned that?
If anyone's interested, by all means edit and repost my response. I'd rather that no one got banned for it, though, so please take care to remove anything that could result in disciplinary action on the board(s) in question.
Excellent! If it's used as a basis, what more should be included?
All your arguments up to then (don't know what they are since I'm not a member) for emphasis, as well as referencing the RotS novel re: how big the war was- hundreds of thousands dying per day, Grievous being the slaughterer of billions, etc etc
Traviss' "this is a brushfire war" crap should be debunked for the nonsense that it is.
Vympel wrote:All your arguments up to then (don't know what they are since I'm not a member) for emphasis, as well as referencing the RotS novel re: how big the war was- hundreds of thousands dying per day, Grievous being the slaughterer of billions, etc etc
Traviss' "this is a brushfire war" crap should be debunked for the nonsense that it is.
Alright then, I'll write it up later and I'll post it here for review. However, it would be good if someone who is a little more familiar with the Clone Wars EU could present some sources on some of the things that Traviss referred to (such as the Spaarti-cloning cylinders. The only instance I can think of when Spaarti-cloning cylinders were used in a story is Hero of Cartao) as well as material from short-stories etc. (I don't get the Insider) and I'll add it.
And here's a direct challenge: find me a numerical source in the NEC that supports your view, and don't be selective. "Groaning with troops" will not do, I'm afraid. That's hardly precise description, and all the number junkies say they like precision. (I'm a number junkie.)
Fuck you. Stop moving goalposts.
If an Acclamator is "groaning with troops", it's got a full load of 16 000. Or MORE.
But noooooooooo! That's not good enough!
Because she outright rejects the evil Saxton books.
How very god damn convenient to outright reject material that directly contradicts her paper-thin arguments.
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I find it hilarious how she describes herself as a "numbers junkie" now. But I thought numbers don't matter? SW is a myth, it's supposed to be fantasy!
Jim Raynor wrote:I find it hilarious how she describes herself as a "numbers junkie" now. But I thought numbers don't matter? SW is a myth, it's supposed to be fantasy!
When people like her say that they're number-junkies, what they *mean* is the love numbers that they make up or numbers convenient to them.
Anything that disproves their assertions and bad math? Hey you armchair physicists take Star Wars too seriously! Get a life!
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It's amazing how much she's willing to put the franchise through in order to avoid admitting a mistake. Most other people would have just admitted the error and carried on, but she is actively trying to reshape the Clone Wars in the literature so that she won't have to admit error. What an incredibly overbearing prideful little shit. The Clone Wars, the great conflict that supposedly exceeded the Galactic Civil War in scope and grandeur, is now being reduced to the relative scale of a gang turf war in Los Angeles thanks to Mrs. Ego.
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Darth Wong wrote: supposedly exceeded the Galactic Civil War in scope and grandeur,
To be fair, the Pre-Endor GCW wasn't exactly huge. The Rebellion only had a few dozen capships after all. That said, Travis' Grand Army of the Republic is only three times the final size of the real Grand Army of the Republic, (American Civil War Union Army, technically the GAR was the veterans association, IIRC) and how anyone can think that's anything but retarded is beyond me. Hell, even the ANH era Rebellion could probably have fielded a larger ground army.
From Alderann alone, I'll warrant.
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Traviss wrote:It's not a daft figure, though: everyone assumes that the war was fought on every planet all the time for three years solid.
It wasn't. It was small scale, very mobile, spread out and bushfire as much as anything - to keep the Jedi busy and scattered. Palps wasn't stupid.
Folks think WWI or WWII. Wrong style of war for this.
Did I miss something? "Small scale"? Doesn't she realize that George Lucas is one of those "folks"? Traviss has made it clear that she won't discuss this further, so I guess there's no idea pushing it further.
Last edited by Mange on 2006-04-11 01:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Traviss wrote:It's not a daft figure, though: everyone assumes that the war was fought on every planet all the time for three years solid.
It wasn't. It was small scale, very mobile, spread out and bushfire as much as anything - to keep the Jedi busy and scattered. Palps wasn't stupid.
Folks think WWI or WWII. Wrong style of war for this.
Did I miss something? "Small scale"? Doesn't she realize that George Lucas is one of those "folks"? Traviss has made it clear that she won't discuss this further, so I guess there's no idea pushing it further.
Ah, sweet RoTS. Georgie's own work not only contradicts this material, it supercedes it.
But hey she can spew "It was small bushfire conflicts!"
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Sorry for going off track here, but guess who comes to her rescue on the SW wiki? Oh yes, it's Hodger-time!
GAR article. Fixed twice. (One was because of a Fandalorian erasing "maximalist" material, so he can't take credit alone for that.)
Battle of Muunilinst. He wants us to believe ships of Guri's Stinger' class (Conqueror-class assault ships) can hold troops as well as war-machines (they're 28 meters long, barely above a fighter)!
Traviss wrote:It's not a daft figure, though: everyone assumes that the war was fought on every planet all the time for three years solid.
It wasn't. It was small scale, very mobile, spread out and bushfire as much as anything - to keep the Jedi busy and scattered. Palps wasn't stupid.
Folks think WWI or WWII. Wrong style of war for this.
Then how in the hell did Luke and other backwater planets even hear about this tiny little insignificant skirmish? From the OT it seemed like you didn't need to be a historian to know about the Clone War.
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I don't see how the quintillion number being bad intelligence/propaganda makes any sense. The ROTS ICS mentions how Palpatine is a Sith and started the whole Clone Wars, where Yoda takes refuge, and how the Imperial Starfleet continues to grow decades after the Clone Wars, yet it relies on a Republic Intelligence screw up or propaganda number?
And a mobile, spread out, "brushfire" war certainly matches up with large scale sieges.
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And a mobile, spread out, "brushfire" war certainly matches up with large scale sieges.
Or the fact that Anakin and Palpatine both explicitly state that the Jedi are "Spread across the galaxy" fighting a small insignificant bush war. The only thing I've heard about her lately is backpedaling and assanine attempts at trying to fix a relatively minor fuck up. But of course since the fuckup's hers she can't admit to it so instead she proceeds to shit on the entire concept of a galaxy wide war in order to fit into her stupid mistake.
And I see she is using scaling against single planetary battles when an entire galaxy was at war. You don't send 10,000 elite mystic warriors to fight in scaled up to the nth degree Mogadishu like engagments.
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Archon wrote:Did LFL really authorise the asinine 3 million number?
No, and in fact, when this debate started, Traviss was forced to back down from it, say that LFL had never approved a specific number. However, that failure seems to have wounded her pride, so she's doing everything she can to screw things up royally.
Archon wrote:Did LFL really authorise the asinine 3 million number?
No, and in fact, when this debate started, Traviss was forced to back down from it, say that LFL had never approved a specific number. However, that failure seems to have wounded her pride, so she's doing everything she can to screw things up royally.
The way I read her post, its a bit twisted.
LFL did indeed approve her claim of 3 million, but at the same time refused to authorise any arbitery number as fixed.
Which is... annoying.
Could these stories possibly be interpreted as a description of only a small segment, specific group or the belief of some official within the Republic who has access to some numbers but is also missing a lot of information?
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Although I have no time at the moment to respond myself, if someone wants to type up an appropriate response I will gladly host it on my Official Site Blog. I have made my blog over there the unnoficial battleground on EU minimalism and already have several articles on this matter. If you are interested in writing a rebuttal of this new doucebaggary from Traviss PM me, and we can work something out.
At this point I might seem a little off topic, but has anyone watched the scenes on Utapau recently? The clone troopers drop like flies! In fact, the Utapau scenes show far more clones dying than droids. There was this part right at the beginning where five clones charging the droids get shot and die at once, all at the same time.
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