Modding Space Empire IV Gold

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-11 07:00pm

Let's not rules lawyer about it all, I've had enough of rules lawyer for one game.

Besides other people have done it already, I know. And Tuxedo is not trading technology--he's buying technology, just that his ambassador chooses to phrase it in OOC terms instead of IC terms for some reason

. Like it would make more sense if he was saying "we would like to buy a planet with a resource converter" or "we would like to buy schematics and technical assistance for jump drive construction" or "we would like to buy electronics" but if Krubbal (sp) chooses to call it "tech" so be it

.

Brian

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-11 07:13pm

There's nothing wrong with saying "jump drive tech". If I were using OOC terms, I would have said Hyperspace Studies 4.

In any case, you said earlier that we should be able to trade tech if we wanted to. Since you were the one who set up the rules at the get-go, I took that as a change of rules.

EDIT: I went back to page 26, and couldn't find Brian's post where he said that. I might be mistaken. Whether I am or not, we should vote about it. The two items on the vote are as follows:

Should players be allowed to trade one tech for another? (Y / N)

Should players be allowed to trade non-tech items (ships, planets, etc.) for tech? (Y / N)

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-11 07:26pm

My votes are as follows:

Should players be allowed to trade one tech for another?
No. This will cause allied power blocs to quickly out-tech everyone else, especially if they coordinate research so that it doesn't overlap. I would also classify giving tech for free as tech trading.

Should players be allowed to trade non-tech items (ships, planets, etc.) for tech? (Y / N)
I think this is fair, since you have to give something substantial up to get the tech. You don't lose tech when you gift or trade it, but you do lose ships and planets.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-11 08:21pm

1. Yes as long as you make a long RP and make an RP reason. By now everybody has tech and you're the one behind Arthur

. Everybody has jump drives everybody has max weapons everybody has everything so it doesn't matter. So if you make a long post and a long storyline about how you're collaborating, especially a good story, then I don't care.

Nobody's doing it anyway. I don't think it works for racials.

2. Yes (since I agree to 1).

<edit>

If I were using OOC terms, I would have said Hyperspace Studies 4.

I don't care if you do use OOC terms, it's your choice. People have been using OOC screenshots, game mechanics, etc., to post things in the RP thread already which was annoying to some people to no end, but it doesn't bother me now because I don't care how people do it

.
</edit>

Brian

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-04-11 08:25pm

1. No, it's too gamey if you ask me. Besides, aren't we, you know, incapable of making direct tech trades now?

2. I don't see why not.

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-04-12 12:21am

Trogdor wrote:1. No, it's too gamey if you ask me. Besides, aren't we, you know, incapable of making direct tech trades now?

This is what I was referring to. Technologies are grayed out, you can't select them. This is a game mechanic that was chosen intentionally at the start.

It's a bit stupid to change a core game rule after a hundred turns. I vote No to both, even though it's redundant based on the fact that we're mechnically prevented from doing so.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 12:24am

And stupider if you made the rule

.

Oh well no more shadow beams... but there's two questions GuppyShark, so technically I could trade you for shadow beams for those planets lol. If Yes passes on the second.

<edit>Rules are flexible, this isn't a rules-a-thon, a hundred turns later tech trading doesn't matter since everybody's got every tech already. I'm not personally going to set up an elaborate tech trading scheme, but if someone wants to it doesn't give them much advantage at all.

Oh and I got jump drives this turn whee.
</edit>

Brian

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-04-12 12:28am

Err, no, it won't. It's disabled. Unless there's literally a way we can change the technology trading setting midgame?

EDIT: I probably have the most to gain from this if it's possible, anyway. The AI didn't get much research done with only one planet at its disposal, so the Shadows are very lacking in a lot of tech areas. They're not about to win any dickwaving contests anytime soon.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 12:30am

No but we can set up a technology trading hub.

You build a starbase

I build a starbase

You give me a ship

I give you a ship

You analyze the ship

I analyze the ship

And so on, getting around the mechanical prevention as you call it.

Brian

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-04-12 12:32am

brianeyci wrote:No but we can set up a technology trading hub.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-04-12 01:06am

Brian wrote:Oh well no more shadow beams... but there's two questions GuppyShark, so technically I could trade you for shadow beams for those planets lol. If Yes passes on the second.

Guppy, I thought you considered it 'cheating' to trade tech in this game and directly compared it to wall hacking and aim bots to do that. I certainly remember you saying Nephtys and I were cheating for doing it.

I'm sure you can see why, after being called a cheat by you, this might piss me off.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 01:17am

I asked Guppy.

Guppy said no, he's not a hypocrite. I was going to build one Shadow vessel with a dozen weapons on it of Shadow design, but oh well. I wasn't going to rampage across the galaxy and kill everybody or build more than a handful. I've already had plenty of opportunity to kill people a few times over.

Dirty laundry somewhere else please

.

Brian

GuppyShark · Post by **GuppyShark** » 2006-04-12 01:42am

I'm probably going to get weird looks from my colleagues but I just have to take a moment to laugh.

Saying I would have the most to gain is not the same as agreeing with it. It's just analysis. In fact, it would be the test of a principle as to whether or not you continue to hold it if you would benefit from not doing so.

You have nothing to fear, K. I would only adopt tech trading if it was decided by the majority to be the new rule going forward. Until then I'll continue to insist that the game rules are firmly against analysis of traded ships, and that to exchange ships with the intention of exchanging technology is an exploit.

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-04-12 01:49am

Hrm. IF we're going to pass treaties on tech trading, what about baseships beyond Arthur's current ships, and his next wave? I'm fine with what he has now, but what about next generation? It's no fun if everyone masses baseships as a new design to use the engine issue. Especially if Shadows and Vorlons don't get it either.

Kojiro · Post by **Kojiro** » 2006-04-12 02:31am

Surely now the 'bug' is identified it should be banned.

There's no excuse to continue to make use of a bug.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 08:13am

Well first it's hard to tell whether the bug's really a bug. Maybe they wanted baseships to be that fast to escort planet killers, who knows. It's a stretch but that's the problem when you get into author's intent, anybody can claim anything.

I don't care either way, because game mechanics are not going to "win" it. Nor am I playing to win, I either go all out or I relax, no half assed, so if I'm not playing to win I don't care if there are thousands of bugs and people take advantage of them. If they even are bugs.

Brian

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-04-12 11:48am

If this were the trek mod or Adamant, and one of the bigger ships were really fast, I'd give the authors the benefit of the doubt. But this mod is buggy as hell. JUMP GATES don't work. I think it's safe to assume this is a bug.

That said, people already have baseships, and almost everyone can build them. So maybe the First Ones can't. It's not that huge of a deal; you've still got better everything else than we do.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 11:59am

Exactly, you can keep your 24 move point baseships everybody. I'm keeping my 170 damage soak heavy baseships

.

Brian

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-12 08:47pm

Didn't notice that tech trading was disabled in the game options. OK, forget it then and scratch all references to such. Trading ships for analysis to get around the game setting is no better than hacking the game file to win, in my view.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 10:00pm

However, the psychotic governmental leaders had launched fighters, fighters which proceeded to ruthlessly kill hundreds of millions of Hurr, just to prevent them from coming under the Brakiri's benevolent rule.

Hahaha, go to page 31 Tuxedo and find "astro hitler"

.

The hundreds of millions of Hurr were killed by advanced storage techniques, my transports don't have fighters on them and my capital ship don't have fighters. But if you want an excuse to fight me, you don't need an excuse, we can rumble

.

Brian

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-12 10:38pm

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the Hurr planet that was in the Solta Gran system in my space. I took it over with a spare troop ship, but they launched fighters and their fighters glassed the planet.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 10:39pm

How can there be a Hurr planet in Solta Gran when Hurr are neutrals and never move through warp points?

Brian

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-12 10:49pm

Gifted in exchange for the Hurr homeworld?

Nephtys · Post by **Nephtys** » 2006-04-12 10:50pm

Arthur_Tuxedo wrote:Gifted in exchange for the Hurr homeworld?

Didn't the Solta Gran neutrals take a lot of damage in fighting early-game? Perhaps they traded. Or perhaps someone took a planet and gave it away to the Neutrals.

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-12 11:19pm

I don't think anybody would give a planet away to the neutrals

. Maybe the neutrals traded with each other. Or maybe the planet was traded I dunno.

Anyway that's a good move Tux, it basically justifies the Corporate Sector's war on the Hurr. Lol.

Brian