Logistics and Death Stars

[Marcus]

Dont know if its ever been discussed... were more of a 'how much damage can you do' crowd than a 'boring nuts and bolts' crowd (on the whole)...

How do the logistics, and military orginization, of the Death Star ~work~?

To me the simple matter of supporting such a structure (whether internally or externally... I would imagine it meets most if not all of its needs internally, simply to avoid the truely mind-boggling 'tail' such a structure would entail) and handling the military personell on board is (from an organizational perspective) probably more impressive than blowing up a planet.

Consider that the population of the Death Star numbers in the what? Billions? Hundreds of Billions? Ive never seen a 'set in stone' figure, but if even a small percentage of that vast volume has people in it (and the parts weve seen in the movies are hardly sparsely populated, though they all ~appear~ to be close to the surface) the population of the Death Star seems to exceed that of earth.

Just think about it. Personell transfers. Crewing requirements. Everything a whole... world... a world dedicated to military purposes, at that... needs.

Simple matter... women. Big metal death machine, apparently crewed by billions of men. Not a female in sight.

Do ~you~ want billions and billions of men driving around in a planet-busting death machine, and not getting laid?

I recall reading that the SW universe has some form of matter-duplication tech, which would seem to solve the food issue... but any military unit has 'tail', and in most cases the teeth-to-tail ratio goes south as the tech level climbs. What part of the DS crew is 'tail'? Do they use civilian specialists for some occupations (perhaps contracted, perhaps not) or is every nit-picking completely-non-military task handled by military personell?

Ulitmately what were getting at is a world... and a largish one (in population terms) that has an overwhelmingly powerful autocratic central government, and is argueably purely military. If it survives over time (rather than being blown up by Our Heros at the end of the move) to what degree would its culture and enviorns deviate from the Galactic Norm? (scratch that... few 'Norms' in a Galaxy wide civilization. Say deviate from the norm of the Imperial Navy).

If a Death Star survives for centuries, and is largely self-sufficent... could/would/should it eventually become a seperate entity (assuming central control slipped...) and a power to itself in the galaxy? What about internal revolt?

Just mind wandering, but the existance of such a massive structure, and the nature of the structure, seems to have such fascinating implications, and such stringent demands, beyond 'big floaty bad guy toy, blows up planets real good'.

Thoughts?

[Zaku-chan]

OK, the crew of the DS is 11 million. Now, considering that the populations of many worlds, especially Coruscant and several other Core Worlds, run up into the dozens of billions, finding women on shore leave shouldn't be too difficult, even for such a massive crew.

[Stormbringer]

OK, the crew of the DS is 11 million. Now, considering that the populations of many worlds, especially Coruscant and several other Core Worlds, run up into the dozens of billions, finding women on shore leave shouldn't be too difficult, even for such a massive crew.

And I'm sure there are rec areas with the much better Wars equivalent of the holodeck. In that much space I'm sure they have rec areas and probably extensive self repair capacity.

[Zaku-chan]

If a Death Star survives for centuries, and is largely self-sufficent... could/would/should it eventually become a seperate entity (assuming central control slipped...) and a power to itself in the galaxy? What about internal revolt?

Of course that's a possibility, just look at the Errant Venture (Star Destroyer that acts as a big trading/smuggling center)

Internal revolt is suppressed by:

1. the Emperor would always have someone close to him aboard (like Vader)
2. the fanatic loyalty the stormies have for the Emperor.

[Marcus]

The vs Board is a few clicks up. Stay on topic.

11 Million, really? I thought I had heard that mentioned as 'Rebel Propaganda' to lower the vast, vast death toll incurred in its destruction.

Given its size, and volume, that just seems gosh-durned low.... certainly so compared to Imperial Warships (which in some ways the Death Star functions as... simply an incredibly large, and powerful, vessel of war).

Still, if its only 11 Million and thats hard-coded, the Death Star becomes very empty of people (for its volume) and alot less interesting.

If its only 11 Million Men, how many bloody-damned droids to they have keeping the thing running? Most modern (and I would assume Imperial) warships in theory require alot less crew to 'fight' (barring damage control) than they do to simply keep going.

[Ghost Rider]

Hell even though that would possibly affect a small portion...I think it's also the fact that Shore leave would be an easy venture given the ease of Hyperspace travel.

I mean the Stormies and Emperor's number 1 present would quell a lot...it's the overall thought of shore leave is a jump away probably quells just as much...and heck like Storm brought up...probably have something akin to holodeck or some ilk for rec. As for the lack of women...just because we don't see them we shouldn't automatically say they weren't there.

[Zaku-chan]

11 Million, really? I thought I had heard that mentioned as 'Rebel Propaganda' to lower the vast, vast death toll incurred in its destruction.

11 or 12. Sources differ.

Given its size, and volume, that just seems gosh-durned low.... certainly so compared to Imperial Warships (which in some ways the Death Star functions as... simply an incredibly large, and powerful, vessel of war).

Remember, most of the station is taken up by the massive reactor and the superlaser.

Still, if its only 11 Million and thats hard-coded, the Death Star becomes very empty of people (for its volume) and alot less interesting.

But more efficient.

If its only 11 Million Men, how many bloody-damned droids to they have keeping the thing running? Most modern (and I would assume Imperial) warships in theory require alot less crew to 'fight' (barring damage control) than they do to simply keep going.

It's stated that there's a near-equal number of droids as crew, so looks like roughly 10 mil.

[Ender]

Consider that the population of the Death Star numbers in the what? Billions? Hundreds of Billions? Ive never seen a 'set in stone' figure, but if even a small percentage of that vast volume has people in it (and the parts weve seen in the movies are hardly sparsely populated, though they all ~appear~ to be close to the surface) the population of the Death Star seems to exceed that of earth.

Set figure is roughly 11 million. As for the sparse population, this is correct, the novel indicates ther are areas where people haven't been since the construction of the DS (IE the garbage compacter hall)

I recall reading that the SW universe has some form of matter-duplication tech, which would seem to solve the food issue... but any military unit has 'tail', and in most cases the teeth-to-tail ratio goes south as the tech level climbs. What part of the DS crew is 'tail'? Do they use civilian specialists for some occupations (perhaps contracted, perhaps not) or is every nit-picking completely-non-military task handled by military personell?

Droids. Droids do a ton of civvie work and military work (Yeomen, boswains, stuff like that)

[Marcus]

Okay, 11 Million it is.

~shakes head~ Cryin shame, too. A FTL capable superfortress with a self-sustaining population in the mutlibillions and a planet-smashing superlaser, one that lasted longer than it took the heros to blow it up and end the movie, just had SUCH potential.

[MirrorUniverseSpy1]

Going from what I've seen of the SW universe, it seems that women
are not really scarce. Droids would also be plentiful to do probably
the non military tasks.

[Enforcer Talen]

I thot it was like one million - I remember that number from black fleet crisis. . . where do the other numbers come from?

[Zaku-chan]

I thot it was like one million - I remember that number from black fleet crisis. . . where do the other numbers come from?

Off the top of my head: Star Wars Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.

And think about this: if the typical ISD requires 35,000 in crew, how could you possibly maintain the DS with only one million?

[neoolong]

I'm wondering if any of those droids are sex droids programmed to provide "tail" to the crew.

[meNNis]

I'm wondering if any of those droids are sex droids programmed to provide "tail" to the crew.

ROFL yea sex droids shoulda thought of that before hehe

[paladin]

OK, the crew of the DS is 11 million. Now, considering that the populations of many worlds, especially Coruscant and several other Core Worlds, run up into the dozens of billions, finding women on shore leave shouldn't be too difficult, even for such a massive crew.

And I'm sure there are rec areas with the much better Wars equivalent of the holodeck. In that much space I'm sure they have rec areas and probably extensive self repair capacity.

Does that mean their "holodecks" are non-fatal compared to SF holodecks.

[Stormbringer]

OK, the crew of the DS is 11 million. Now, considering that the populations of many worlds, especially Coruscant and several other Core Worlds, run up into the dozens of billions, finding women on shore leave shouldn't be too difficult, even for such a massive crew.

And I'm sure there are rec areas with the much better Wars equivalent of the holodeck. In that much space I'm sure they have rec areas and probably extensive self repair capacity.

Does that mean their "holodecks" are non-fatal compared to SF holodecks.

Yes, after all Wars seems to understand basic safety.

Plus the technology is supposed to be aboslutely realistc. None of the close but not quite of trek tech,

[Enlightenment]

Plus the technology is supposed to be aboslutely realistc. None of the close but not quite of trek tech,

LOL. Wars technology is much more rationally designed and deployed when compared to Treknology. However it was designed not for realism but rather so Lucas could tell the kind of story he wanted to tell. Wars technology has its own share of unrealism problems to the extent that it cannot reasonably be called absolutely realistic.

[kheegster]

OK, the crew of the DS is 11 million. Now, considering that the populations of many worlds, especially Coruscant and several other Core Worlds, run up into the dozens of billions, finding women on shore leave shouldn't be too difficult, even for such a massive crew.

And I'm sure there are rec areas with the much better Wars equivalent of the holodeck. In that much space I'm sure they have rec areas and probably extensive self repair capacity.

I'm thinking about the Holodeck-esque parlour in Minority Report....

[Stormbringer]

Plus the technology is supposed to be aboslutely realistc. None of the close but not quite of trek tech,

LOL. Wars technology is much more rationally designed and deployed when compared to Treknology. However it was designed not for realism but rather so Lucas could tell the kind of story he wanted to tell. Wars technology has its own share of unrealism problems to the extent that it cannot reasonably be called absolutely realistic.

Umm, you do realized what I meant right. Or did you have to leap in and bash before the seeing the context.

I meant that Wars "holo-decks" are supposedly indistiguishable from the real world.

[RedImperator]

Dont know if its ever been discussed... were more of a 'how much damage can you do' crowd than a 'boring nuts and bolts' crowd (on the whole)...

How do the logistics, and military orginization, of the Death Star ~work~?

<snip>

Just mind wandering, but the existance of such a massive structure, and the nature of the structure, seems to have such fascinating implications, and such stringent demands, beyond 'big floaty bad guy toy, blows up planets real good'.

Thoughts?

How is it that some schmoe on a BBS comes up with a richer, more interesting, more insightful, and basically just a better idea of the implications of something like the Death Star than the supposed writers who look at a hollow, moon sized space station and think..."Hmm...11 million seems about right"? Idiots. There's 5 million people on Manhattan Island alone, nowhere near the size of the Death Star, where the tallest structure has only 86 habitable floors and there's still thousands of miles of corridors, tunnels, and back streets where you can run around for hours and never encounter a living soul. The Death Star should have a population in the billions (I'm not just talking out of my ass here, either--Saxton thinks 11 million is stupid, too), irregardless of wha some idiot EU writer thinks or some shortsighted policy at Lucasbooks that makes everyone follow what the idiot before them did. Damn, I hate the EU.

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

The superlaser and main reactor only take up about half of the station, so you would still have space for billions of people.

I believe the 11 million figure was the bare minimun needed to run things, and later on, the DS would become fully crewed. I believe crew spent 6 years on the station, so there were probably large excercise facilities, and some recreation facilities as well, perhaps some artificial parks, theaters, and perhaps a theme park or two.

It's Six Flags Death Star Adventure!

[HemlockGrey]

It's a small world after all...

[Enforcer Talen]

I thot it was like one million - I remember that number from black fleet crisis. . . where do the other numbers come from?

Off the top of my head: Star Wars Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels.

And think about this: if the typical ISD requires 35,000 in crew, how could you possibly maintain the DS with only one million?

I agree with you. lol. go talk with the EU.

[Exonerate]

I'm wondering if any of those droids are sex droids programmed to provide "tail" to the crew.

ROFL yea sex droids shoulda thought of that before hehe

Hmm... What were those androids with flesh again?

[Ghost Rider]

Well Guri was a tad bit rare ...but I don't see why you couldn't make a more persay lesser version of her.

I mean I doubt the whole like human would be so hard...then again I say they just had brothels with real women(of all species)...cheaper.