Skynet discovers Coruscant

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 06:57am

And decides to invade it.

It sends through a force of 1.5 million T-800s, 150,000 ground HKs and 75,000 flying HKs. It also sends 100 T-1000s.

The T-800s are armed with their standard plasma rifles at first, but if these run out of ammo, they will pick up and use whatever weapons they can find.

(Skynet found Coruscant when a malfunction with its temporal displacement technology resulted in the creation of a wormhole. This wormhole links one of Skynet's bases, to a location about 100 miles away from the senate building on Coruscant, in a deserted industrial district (hence nobody on Coruscant notices the existance of the wormhole until Terminators start coming). The point in the SW timeline when this happens is about one year prior to TPM.)

What happens?

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 06:58am

Why pick a scenario one year prior to TMP when we know absolutely nothing about what forces, if any, are arrayed on Coruscant?

SWPIGWANG · Post by **SWPIGWANG** » 2002-12-11 07:17am

only 1.5mil?

The civilans shows their blasters and boom they go.

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 07:34am

However, 1.5 mil Terminators would be worth many times their number in civilians, even armed civilians.

If they stay together in groups and don't get spread too thin... they should be a match for any individual civilian force that comes against them. Say maybe going around in platoon-level groups (30-40). With perfect, flawless discipline, extreme accuracy, etc.

Also the lighter compact holdout blasters that many of the Joe Publics might have would probably not faze a T-800. It would take a heavier blaster, like Jango Fett's pistol.

Also they're not going to stay on the ground... they're going to (violently) commandeer speeder vehicles left right and center.

They will be a highly mobile, well integrated, powerful force.

Civilians won't cut it.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-11 07:36am

If there's 500 trillian of them they will.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 07:42am

See all you have defending Coruscant is civilians with undefined weaponry. Give me Empire era Coruscant, then we'll talk

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-11 07:43am

Civilians won't cut it.

When you got trillions of them armed with weapons heavier than the terminators eer imagines they will. A blaster would put a terminator down easy no mess, no fuss.

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 07:44am

HemlockGrey wrote:If there's 500 trillian of them they will.

And these 500 trillion civilians will all mass at one point and attack the Terminators?

That's about the dumbest assumption I've ever seen.

It's likely that the terminators will never face any civilian group larger than a few hundred at most.

If about 1,000 fully equipped Spetsnaz turned up in the USA on the west coast, and started to make their way through this nation of 300 million, to the west coast, without dispersing much, killing those who got in their way, do you think a force of 300 million civilians would mass and face them?

They would cut a swath through the US until the military was able to bring organized military assets to bear on them.

So would it be with the terminators and Coruscant.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 07:48am

To seriously get into the debate now, I'm not too impressed with the Terminator ability to fight. They just keep coming, confident in the belief that they are immune to the puny weapons arrayed against them- even- as we learned in the beginning of T2- when they're not.

These slow-moving Ahnulds wouldn't be a push over, but they're not exactly Spetznaz either.

PS: And I should know. Just look at my title

(j/k)

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-11 07:49am

My point is that even if each terminator kills a million civvies, there's still too many. Each terminator lost cannot be replaced, and when civilians can pack megaton-level firepower they can be extremely dangerous.

In anycase, it doesn't matter. Dispatch TIEs or Republican fighters, orbital defenses lock on, bzzaaap.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-11 07:50am

That's one of the bdumber idea. Even 2 million terminators are a drop in the bucket and any armed civilian will put down a whole bunch of terminators beforwe dying. Blasters are a a bitch no?

True civilians aren't likely to mass and attack but the police forces would. And they would cut the terminators to ribbons. The terminators plasma weapons would be completely useless against any except the lightest vehicles and body armor.

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 07:50am

Stormbringer wrote:
Civilians won't cut it.
When you got trillions of them armed with weapons heavier than the terminators eer imagines they will. A blaster would put a terminator down easy no mess, no fuss.

Proof that blasters are heavier than the terminator's plasma guns?

Proof that lighter blasters would destroy a terminator? (SBDs were seen to survive at least one blaster hit and carry on fighting. And to me, the SBDs appeared slightly less impressive than a T-800.)

And do you not accept that the kill ratio would be massively in favor of the terminators? Civilians, especially civilians under pressure, are typically not very accurate. Terminators on the other hand are exceedingly accurate. Even when firing from the hip.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2002-12-11 07:52am

Um, all it takes is a couple of civies in armed freighters or Firesprays and they can slaughter the Termies.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 07:52am

Totenkopf wrote:
Proof that blasters are heavier than the terminator's plasma guns?

Proof that lighter blasters would destroy a terminator? (SBDs were seen to survive at least one blaster hit and carry on fighting. And to me, the SBDs appeared slightly less impressive than a T-800.)

And do you not accept that the kill ratio would be massively in favor of the terminators? Civilians, especially civilians under pressure, are typically not very accurate. Terminators on the other hand are exceedingly accurate. Even when firing from the hip.

We see a Terminator get taken out by a resistance trooper in the opening stages of T2.

We also see that a Terminator cannot withstand a stick of explosives in Terminator 1.

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 07:55am

Explosives that were stuffed inside it.

I wonder how a SBD, storm trooper, or any other human-sized combatant from SW would do if a bomb was shoved in among its inner works.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-11 07:57am

Totenkopf wrote:
Stormbringer wrote:
Civilians won't cut it.
When you got trillions of them armed with weapons heavier than the terminators eer imagines they will. A blaster would put a terminator down easy no mess, no fuss.
Proof that blasters are heavier than the terminator's plasma guns?

Proof that lighter blasters would destroy a terminator? (SBDs were seen to survive at least one blaster hit and carry on fighting. And to me, the SBDs appeared slightly less impressive than a T-800.)

Look at the damage a blaster does! A plasma rifle has never shown that level of damage.

And a terminator is tough but heavy guns will kill them. And of course we have the infamous pipe bomb. A blaster can do at least as much damage as the pipe bombs.

Totenkopf wrote:And do you not accept that the kill ratio would be massively in favor of the terminators? Civilians, especially civilians under pressure, are typically not very accurate. Terminators on the other hand are exceedingly accurate. Even when firing from the hip.

I think it would. But with a one shot, one kill weapon like most blasters the terminators would have a kill ratio that's even at best.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 07:57am

No not stuffed INSIDE it in the sense that it was within the body, it was merely jammed into the 'stomach' area (my memory is foggy however)- proving that it's joints cannot withstand an explosion.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2002-12-11 07:58am

Totenkopf wrote:Explosives that were stuffed inside it.

I wonder how a SBD, storm trooper, or any other human-sized combatant from SW would do if a bomb was shoved in among its inner works.

They'd die. So what?

A terminator was destoyed by an unimpressive pipe bomb. It's not that tough.

Sardaukar · Post by **Sardaukar** » 2002-12-11 07:59am

In Terminator 1, doesn't Arnold state at the gun shop that he wants a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range (or something similar)??

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 08:00am

Sardaukar wrote:In Terminator 1, doesn't Arnold state at the gun shop that he wants a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range (or something similar)??

Hahahaha

Let's forget the dialog if that's what it was said- it was blown apart by a pipe bomb.

Is it just me ... or have we forgotten ....

JEDI

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 08:07am

Well we know the plasma rifles are more powerful than modern firearms of equivelant size - they can kill terminators, unlike MP5s and M-16's, which can't.

And SW blasters are by no means 1 shot 1 kill. If they hit a non-critical body part (Leia's arm, Luke's hand) they will not kill.

(Incidentally: A vehicularly mounted plasma cannon on a HK blew a human into a fine mist in T1.)

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 08:09am

HKs will take care of Jedi.

Post by **Vympel** » 2002-12-11 08:13am

No methinks HKs can be taken care of by light tripod mounted weaponry of the kind seen on Naboo (that takes out the Tradefed tank). Jedi will slice through Terminators like .... say ... Tradefed battledroids

Regarding blasters:

1: Leia's arm: glancing shot obviously, and not a critical body part. The same is true of these plasma rifles.
2: Luke's hand: a Gamorrean pistol, not an E-11 carbine, Han Solo's DH-44, etc, and to boot, Luke's hand is not organic, and of course, getting shot in the hand is fatal when?

Totenkopf · Post by **Totenkopf** » 2002-12-11 08:41am

Vympel wrote:No methinks HKs can be taken care of by light tripod mounted weaponry of the kind seen on Naboo (that takes out the Tradefed tank).

Yes. But there's a lot of HKs. How thick on the ground (or in the sky) is such weaponry going to be?

Also it wasn't "light tripod mounted". It was a vehicle-mounted cannon.

Jedi will slice through Terminators like .... say ... Tradefed battledroids

There are 1.5 million terminators. It took far, far less battledroids (than 1.5 mil) to cull a 200-Jedi force down to about a dozen survivors.

Also comparing TF battledroids to Terminators is like comparing gangbangers to Green Berets.

Regarding blasters:

1: Leia's arm: glancing shot obviously, and not a critical body part. The same is true of these plasma rifles.
2: Luke's hand: a Gamorrean pistol, not an E-11 carbine, Han Solo's DH-44, etc, and to boot, Luke's hand is not organic, and of course, getting shot in the hand is fatal when?

I assumed by "1 shot 1 kill" you were implying that a single hit anywhere on the body = death.

However, since it requires a critical hit (head, neck, heart, lungs, guts) to kill with a regular blaster, there is no advantage, since the plasma rifles will also do this. And the terminators fire with superior accuracy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-12-11 08:54am

Oh, for fuck's sake. This is CORUSCANT. They won't even make it out of a city block! Did it occur to you that the cops on Coruscant all have flying vehicles?

A standard SW sidearm will destroy a T-800 easily. If the first shot doesn't work, they'll crank the power and the second shot will take it apart (see Docking Bay 94 walls in ANH). 1.5 million termies is just a lot of aerial target practice. Their H/K's are slow and unmaneuverable, the ground units are no better, and they were DEFEATED by a mob of humans with no armour, no air support, and no artillery. How fucking pathetic is that?