Imperial Racism, EU Brain bug?

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-04-14 06:26pm

Captain Lakwii Vaarscha of the ISD Mk II Virulence

"this woman was one of the many promoted to officer status in the Imperial Navy"

That's what TCUSWE says about her. I don't know the validity of the quote, but it's interesting.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-04-14 10:07pm

Wasn't that only because her superior got promoted to the Lusankya?

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-14 10:47pm

Simply taking the overwhelming amount of humans we see as an indication of species bias is ignoring the overwhelming dominance of humanity in the galaxy, especially given the small sample we have. According to Dr Saxton's Star Wars Technical Commentaries,

"It has been established that humans were amongst the first sapient species to develop hyperdrive in the STAR WARS galaxy [see eg. Essential Guide to Vehicles & Vessels; SWAJ #8: The Gree Enclave]. Corellians were amongst the first to do so, but humans were already present throughout the galaxy, which implies that they had slower means of interstellar transport for a long time earlier" [1].

This indicates humans had been spreading through the galaxy for a minimum of 50,000 years (assuming a home planet in the core, and expansion to 10,000 light years shy of the outer rim), and almost certainly much longer. However, the mere existence of what Dr Saxton calls "pseudohumans" indicates humanity has existed throughout the galaxy for possibly hundreds of thousands of years:

"Some species may evolve features enabling them to exploit humans in a directly organic manner. Others may be adapted for subconscious psychological manipulation of humans. Judging by the onscreen canonical evidence, many sapient species are adapted to mimick human beings" [2].

It is quite unreasonable to expect humans to have existed throughout the galaxy long enough to have clearly influenced the evolution of other species on a variety of worlds and not be a clear majority of the population in the Galactic Empire, given exponential rates of growth and the clear long-time expansion.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2006-04-15 12:10am

Darth Yoshi wrote:Wasn't that only because her superior got promoted to the Lusankya?

It'd have to be relations. She wasn't all that bright, remember?

Darth Fanboy · Post by **Darth Fanboy** » 2006-04-15 06:29am

*Poll added* 4/15

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2006-04-15 12:37pm

There is also Vergere's claim in either Traitor or Destiny'sWay, that humans occupy every ecological niche and are everywhere or this archeologists from Brian Daley's Han Solo-trilogy (quoted in Hero's Trial), that humans are one of the most successful species of the galaxy.

Lazarus · Post by **Lazarus** » 2006-04-15 02:09pm

Concerning Varrsha, she was Academy trained, naturally, and given command of a customs corvette, which the Pulsar Skate under Mirax Terrik ran into. Mirax recalled that she was a by the book kind of officer, and somewhat unimaginative, although by no means incompetent.

After Captain Drysso was promoted to command of the Lusankya, Varrscha was given command of the Virulence. Apparently the two were something of a team, which suggests she had been XO of the Virulence for some time.

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2006-04-15 11:45pm

I'm seeing a lot based on the "where are you taking this thing?" quote, but is everyone selectively forgetting the "someone get this big walking carpet out of my way" quote?

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-15 11:54pm

Lord Sander wrote:I'm seeing a lot based on the "where are you taking this thing?" quote, but is everyone selectively forgetting the "someone get this big walking carpet out of my way" quote?

People have noted that, several times. My opinion on the matter is that Leia was just being bitchy, since she never exhibits that kind of behavior around Chewie, or any other alien, again. Then again, both cases are a bit too hazy to make any definite judgement.

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2006-04-16 02:35am

Noble Ire wrote:People have noted that, several times.

It has? Whoops.

Noble Ire wrote:My opinion on the matter is that Leia was just being bitchy, since she never exhibits that kind of behavior around Chewie, or any other alien, again. Then again, both cases are a bit too hazy to make any definite judgement.

Not that I'm really serious in the following, but...
We've only seen Leia interact with 2 nonhumans, Chewie and Wicket. Chewie gets the same treatment he gets from Imps. Until he rescues her from execution. Wicket is just some primitive cutesy teddybear she wants to feed like a nerf at the zoo. Until he rescues her...
How do we know Leia isn't speciesist? The only aliens she seems to treat like equals are those that have successfully saved her life!

Now there's a brainbug that could've added drama to the EU

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-16 02:44pm

Not from the movies, definetely.
Nonetheless, there may be implications in the novellisations of the movies, which could have influenced the Eu.

I doubt the completely made it up on their own. Although even that may be.

Anyway, EU is just plain dumb when it comes to Imperials, the only noteworthy EU Imperial characters were created by Zahn, the rest were like total psychopatic idiots, dumber than a military commander can possibly be. Fighting dumb psycho villains is fun, isn't it?

That's one of the reasons I despise 99% of the EU.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2006-04-19 03:17am

I'll toss this one in for fun...

"My little... green... friend." - Palpatine to Yoda, ROTS

Utah Jak · Post by **Utah Jak** » 2006-04-19 03:25am

Kurgan wrote:I'll toss this one in for fun...

"My little... green... friend." - Palpatine to Yoda, ROTS

I think that was Palps beinga a smart ass though. Also, Siddious was bat-shit crazy during his duel with Yoda.

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-04-19 03:48am

Palpatine does say in Outbound Flight that one must "permit people their passions".

Apparently everyone's passion just happened to be xenophobia, then?

Post by **K. A. Pital** » 2006-04-19 05:29am

Apparently everyone's passion just happened to be xenophobia, then?

It may have had to do with the CIS, who were mostly xenos, against a dominantly human Republic.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-19 08:36am

Kurgan wrote:I'll toss this one in for fun...

"My little... green... friend." - Palpatine to Yoda, ROTS

Yeah, because single quotes mean shit.

That's all this is based on. Single quotes. We ignore the nasty racist shit the good guys say, and use the nasty racist shit the bad guys say to invent a galaxy-spanning attitude.

Frankly, since most aliens appear to be limited to few planets - ie, Sullustans are actually from Sullust - while humans are EVERYWHERE - humans aren't from planet Hum - means that aliens in general are outnumbered, and individual species are stark minorities. Holy shit, maybe the prison officer had never even SEEN a wookie!

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2006-04-19 09:28am

Kurgan wrote:

I'll toss this one in for fun...

"My little... green... friend." - Palpatine to Yoda, ROTS

That's just pre-fight trash talk! He could just as easily said "you got no game midget!

Cao Cao · Post by **Cao Cao** » 2006-04-19 02:17pm

Stark wrote:Frankly, since most aliens appear to be limited to few planets - ie, Sullustans are actually from Sullust - while humans are EVERYWHERE - humans aren't from planet Hum - means that aliens in general are outnumbered, and individual species are stark minorities. Holy shit, maybe the prison officer had never even SEEN a wookie!

Possibly not. Leia might not have seen one before Chewie either, hence the trash talk from both of them.
But nooo, only Cletus T. Yokel, prison guard's words are noticed. Even though Leia is a Senator and leader in the Rebellion and should know better.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2006-04-19 03:14pm

Lord Sander wrote:I'm seeing a lot based on the "where are you taking this thing?" quote, but is everyone selectively forgetting the "someone get this big walking carpet out of my way" quote?

Not to mention who gets medals, and who doesn't get medals at the end of ANH. Humans, yes; droids, no; walking-carpet, no.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2006-04-19 03:51pm

FOG3 wrote:
Lord Sander wrote:I'm seeing a lot based on the "where are you taking this thing?" quote, but is everyone selectively forgetting the "someone get this big walking carpet out of my way" quote?
Not to mention who gets medals, and who doesn't get medals at the end of ANH. Humans, yes; droids, no; walking-carpet, no.

According to lit, Chewbacca got his medal later; Leia was too short to put it on him. Don't like that, fine, but remember it's not my explanation.

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2006-04-19 05:09pm

It's kind of weak, but the case around the officer is much weaker.

If we went into the droids, R2-D2 has saved their collective butts at least once per movie. Yet a rebel mechanic offers the chance of a new one to Luke, because it's "beat up" in the first movie. Not to mention the entire Endor assault would have uterly failed if they hadn't had C-3PO who just happened to look like a Ewok diety. No ewok distraction, therefore no success at the shield generator, therefore that shield would have stayed up.

The case against the Alliance is many fold stronger then that against the Empire.

Post by **Surlethe** » 2006-04-19 05:16pm

FOG3 wrote:It's kind of weak, but the case around the officer is much weaker.

If we went into the droids, R2-D2 has saved their collective butts at least once per movie. Yet a rebel mechanic offers the chance of a new one to Luke, because it's "beat up" in the first movie. Not to mention the entire Endor assault would have uterly failed if they hadn't had C-3PO who just happened to look like a Ewok diety. No ewok distraction, therefore no success at the shield generator, therefore that shield would have stayed up.

The case against the Alliance is many fold stronger then that against the Empire.

I think it's fairly established that the Star Wars galaxy is racist against droids, regardless of political standing; how does this demonstrate the Empire is racist against other species?

Lord Sander · Post by **Lord Sander** » 2006-04-19 05:20pm

FOG3 wrote:It's kind of weak, but the case around the officer is much weaker.

Actually, I'd say the case for the officer is stronger. He's talking about what he assumes to be a criminal prisoner (not that I know how prison guards talk about prisoners IRL, but I doubt it's glowingly). Leia was talking about someone risking his life to save hers!

Shadowtraveler · Post by **Shadowtraveler** » 2006-04-19 05:24pm

Well, to be honest, she was expecting General Kenobi the Negotiator to save her.

She got Sargent Mullet and the Dynamic Duo instead

Plus she just got out of a trash compactor. That would really mess up someone's mood.

Jalinth · Post by **Jalinth** » 2006-04-19 05:54pm

Lord Sander wrote: Actually, I'd say the case for the officer is stronger. He's talking about what he assumes to be a criminal prisoner (not that I know how prison guards talk about prisoners IRL, but I doubt it's glowingly). Leia was talking about someone risking his life to save hers!

The scene goes like this (hopefully these are exact)
"Han Solo: Look, Your Worshipfulness, let's get one thing straight. I take orders from just one person: me.
Princess Leia: It's a wonder you're still alive.
[Pushing past Chewbacca]
Princess Leia: Will someone get this big walking carpet out of my way?
Han Solo: No reward is worth this. "

She isn't that respectful of Han after rescuing her either (although it wasn't the most ept rescue in the world). So you could assign this as either sarcasm or exasperation.

She also has other lines like "Into the garbage chute, flyboy. " So she has a sharp tongue more than being racist. At least Chewie wasn't called a nerfherder.

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Imperial Racism, EU Brain bug?

Where does Imperial racism come from?