GW/WH40K modelling/gaming discussion thread

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

The current "in" thing seems to be Veteran Sergeants with power fists. Can kill most tanks as well as insta-kill any humanoid character, no armor save. Beyond that, a lot of it simply boils down to personal taste.

My personal opinion (which you may wish to take with a grain of salt) is to avoid plasma weapons of any sort on Space Marines. Great for Guardsmen, but 4th Ed. plasmas just shit on you with Marines, thanks to Murphy's Law. Take a flamer or melta as the special weapon depending on intended battlefield role, though as those are both very short range they're ideally not mixed with a heavy weapon choice too.

Missile launchers are a good versatile choice, hard to go wrong with them. Can touch anything on the field effectively.

Assault cannons aren't quite as ludicrous, but still excellent. Mixed with the Tank Hunters skill they have a statistically higher chance of nailing Armor 14 than a lascannon.

Plasma cannons... eh. Not as liable to explode as plasma guns, but still of questionable value. Excellent heavy infantry killer though.

Heavy bolters are solid but nothing special, and lascannons are a must for dedicated AT work. Your Annihilator should be able to fill that out nicely though.

It's generally best to max out your Tac Squads to 10 men and skimp on the heavy weapon. Going minimum size and maxing their weapon options isn't super-effective and will get you nasty looks anyways.

Devastators... sarge and four bigguns. Simple enough. Mix firepower as desired.

Assault Marines, max size is a must. Else they'll get clobbered before they reach CC and be rendered impotent. Avoid plasma pistols.

And me, my favorite thing to do is pimp out my command squads. It costs in excess of 500 points each, but a hero and command squad is a horrific force of death and destruction on the battlefield. Gear up your commander, then fill out his squad with all three specialists and a vet sarge, give 'em all Termie Honours and load 'em out with artificer armor and power weapons. That's a 2+ majority armor save with an Apothecary ignoring the first failed saved per round and an unspeakably violent CC machine.

[Keevan_Colton]

1000 Point List

Traits:
See but dont be seen
Cleanse And Purify
Aspire to Glory

110 points, HQ.
Reclusiarch Chaplin (Infiltrate)
+ Terminator Honours
+ Bolt Pistol
+ Melta Bombs
+ Frag Grenades

357
Command Squad (10, Infiltrate, Terminator Honours, bolt pistol + CCW, Frag Grenades)
+ Vet. Sarge
+ Power Weapon
+ Melta Bombs
+ Auspex
+ Company Champ
+ Melta Bombs
+ Meltagun
+ Meltagun

233 points, Troops.
Tactical Squad (10, Infiltrate)
+ Melta Gun
+ Melta Gun
+ Vet. Sarge
+ Power Weapon
+ Bolt pistol
+ Auspex
+ Melta Bombs

110 points, Troops.
Scout Squad (5, Infiltrate)
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Heavy Bolter
+ Vet. Sarge
+ Melta Bombs
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Auspex

115 points, Troops.
Scout Squad (5, Infiltrate)
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Missile Launcher
+ Vet. Sarge
+ Sniper Rifle
+ Melta Bombs
+ Auspex

75 Points, Fast Attack.
Landspeeder (Deep Strike)
+ Multimelta
+ Heavy Flamer


What do you all think?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Looks good. I'm not too sure about giving the sergeants melta bombs, given the general difficulty of using grenade weapons against vehicles they are most effective en masse (Remember, a 6 is needed just to hit a vehicle that moved more than 6", and grenade-equipped models only get one attack rather than their standard allotment).

Other than that it looks fine. A little too dependent on close-range AT for my own personal tastes, but that's just a matter of playstyle. At 1000 points you shouldn't run into too many vehicles anyways.

You also have to be the only person, ever, to take Aspire to Glory.

[Keevan_Colton]

Looks good. I'm not too sure about giving the sergeants melta bombs, given the general difficulty of using grenade weapons against vehicles they are most effective en masse (Remember, a 6 is needed just to hit a vehicle that moved more than 6", and grenade-equipped models only get one attack rather than their standard allotment).

Other than that it looks fine. A little too dependent on close-range AT for my own personal tastes, but that's just a matter of playstyle. At 1000 points you shouldn't run into too many vehicles anyways.

You also have to be the only person, ever, to take Aspire to Glory.

With this setup, not a single thing is lost I figured infiltration would help with close range, the command squad and tac squad setting up close with the two scout squads providing cover from further back. I rather like the idea of a "suprise!" marine force. I ought to paint 'em bannana marine colours with infiltration just for the daftness of it.

[2000AD]

Picked up the new Tau Codex and i am seriously liking some of the new stuff. The overhaul to markerlights just opens up whole new avenues of shooty death and suddenly pathfinders become hideuosly useful.

I'm also tempted by Farsight and the prospect of fielding a squad of 9 battle suits (Farsight and his "1-8 bodyguards").

Now all i need to do is dig out my Tau, find all the parts, put them back together, probably strip the paint and do a better job ..... probably easier just to buy new tau.

[Keevan_Colton]

Picked up the new Tau Codex and i am seriously liking some of the new stuff. The overhaul to markerlights just opens up whole new avenues of shooty death and suddenly pathfinders become hideuosly useful.

I'm also tempted by Farsight and the prospect of fielding a squad of 9 battle suits (Farsight and his "1-8 bodyguards").

Now all i need to do is dig out my Tau, find all the parts, put them back together, probably strip the paint and do a better job ..... probably easier just to buy new tau.

I think that's a major factor in the shift away from metal models. The metal ones are easier to strip and repaint. [/GW money grubbing conspiracy]

[Azazal]

Picked up the new Tau Codex and i am seriously liking some of the new stuff. The overhaul to markerlights just opens up whole new avenues of shooty death and suddenly pathfinders become hideuosly useful.

I'm also tempted by Farsight and the prospect of fielding a squad of 9 battle suits (Farsight and his "1-8 bodyguards").

Now all i need to do is dig out my Tau, find all the parts, put them back together, probably strip the paint and do a better job ..... probably easier just to buy new tau.

I think that's a major factor in the shift away from metal models. The metal ones are easier to strip and repaint. [/GW money grubbing conspiracy]

not really, to strip platic models use either Castrol Super Clean, or Simple Green. Just let the model soak for a few days, then gently scrub with a toothbrush, rinse off with water. Paint comes right off, leaves the plastic just fine.

However, GW is still a bunch of money grubbing bastards

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Plastics are harder and more expensive to make. Coupled with the fact that they are cheaper for us and easier to convert (and plain model, IMO, no super glue to worry about), and I don't see how they're particuarly price-gougish.

Now the stupid "alien flora," now that's price gouging.

[Keevan_Colton]

Picked up the new Tau Codex and i am seriously liking some of the new stuff. The overhaul to markerlights just opens up whole new avenues of shooty death and suddenly pathfinders become hideuosly useful.

I'm also tempted by Farsight and the prospect of fielding a squad of 9 battle suits (Farsight and his "1-8 bodyguards").

Now all i need to do is dig out my Tau, find all the parts, put them back together, probably strip the paint and do a better job ..... probably easier just to buy new tau.

I think that's a major factor in the shift away from metal models. The metal ones are easier to strip and repaint. [/GW money grubbing conspiracy]

not really, to strip platic models use either Castrol Super Clean, or Simple Green. Just let the model soak for a few days, then gently scrub with a toothbrush, rinse off with water. Paint comes right off, leaves the plastic just fine.

However, GW is still a bunch of money grubbing bastards

With a metal model, a couple of hours in any sort of paint stripper and it's good to go, and the superglue is gone too so you an start again from the ground up with it.

I will need to give the Castrol stuff a try though.

[Utsanomiko]

Has WD published additional Marine Chapter Traits or Guard Doctrines (besides extra abhuman options, though beastmen sound interesting)? The Space Marines really could have used more variety to their advantages (it's mostly 'field X as elites' and allowing certain veteran skills) and another half-dozen disadvantages to the total list.

And I'm a bit disappointed that there's no wargear or Doctrines relating to Rough Riders. It'd be awesome to have an entire army with Rough Riders as troops and a Command Platoon mounted on horseback for ~20 points, even though it'd require a lot of finess woth good use of timing and cover.

[Azazal]

With a metal model, a couple of hours in any sort of paint stripper and it's good to go, and the superglue is gone too so you an start again from the ground up with it.

I will need to give the Castrol stuff a try though.

You'll like it, it will even soften up super glue. Just wear some rubber gloves, the stuff is reletivly harmless, but it always sucks the moisture out of my skin and leaves me flaking for a few days. Also, it lasts forever, I have a jar of CSC that I started using 4 years ago, still strips paint without a problem.

[Keevan_Colton]

I'm still toying about with the idea of what traits to take for my chapter, I'm pretty much set on having "See But Dont Be Seen", I like the idea of the flexibility it offers with setting up inital good firing positions and the tactical edge of deploying after the real deployment is done.

Are there any suggestions on what disadvantage would be the best to go with it, or what other trait might complement it well?

[Azazal]

Has WD published additional Marine Chapter Traits or Guard Doctrines (besides extra abhuman options, though beastmen sound interesting)? The Space Marines really could have used more variety to their advantages (it's mostly 'field X as elites' and allowing certain veteran skills) and another half-dozen disadvantages to the total list.

And I'm a bit disappointed that there's no wargear or Doctrines relating to Rough Riders. It'd be awesome to have an entire army with Rough Riders as troops and a Command Platoon mounted on horseback for ~20 points, even though it'd require a lot of finess woth good use of timing and cover.

Sadly, none that I know of. Even worse, word has it that chapter approved is being discontinued, so don't look forward to any new rules in WD

[Keevan_Colton]

Has WD published additional Marine Chapter Traits or Guard Doctrines (besides extra abhuman options, though beastmen sound interesting)? The Space Marines really could have used more variety to their advantages (it's mostly 'field X as elites' and allowing certain veteran skills) and another half-dozen disadvantages to the total list.

And I'm a bit disappointed that there's no wargear or Doctrines relating to Rough Riders. It'd be awesome to have an entire army with Rough Riders as troops and a Command Platoon mounted on horseback for ~20 points, even though it'd require a lot of finess woth good use of timing and cover.

It would be really cool, there used to be rules for rough rider command squads back in 2nd edition.

[Azazal]

I'm still toying about with the idea of what traits to take for my chapter, I'm pretty much set on having "See But Dont Be Seen", I like the idea of the flexibility it offers with setting up inital good firing positions and the tactical edge of deploying after the real deployment is done.

Are there any suggestions on what disadvantage would be the best to go with it, or what other trait might complement it well?

What type of playing style are you looking to do with the sneaky bastards? If you plan to use the infiltration as cover for a quick assault, you can try take the fight to them. Set up tactical squads with bolt pistols and CCWs, through in a melta gun for any AT work that might be needed. This way you can pop out of cover, lay down some shots then charge into HtH. Mind you this is all based off of deployment and cover options.

Then if you want to take the easy dis-advantage, eye to eye is pretty easy to live with

If you want to check out different options and lists that are already out there, I recommend Bolter and Chainswaord Army List Reviews Quite a few lists that have been peer reviewed there, might help lend some ideas for you.

[Keevan_Colton]

I'm still toying about with the idea of what traits to take for my chapter, I'm pretty much set on having "See But Dont Be Seen", I like the idea of the flexibility it offers with setting up inital good firing positions and the tactical edge of deploying after the real deployment is done.

Are there any suggestions on what disadvantage would be the best to go with it, or what other trait might complement it well?

What type of playing style are you looking to do with the sneaky bastards? If you plan to use the infiltration as cover for a quick assault, you can try take the fight to them. Set up tactical squads with bolt pistols and CCWs, through in a melta gun for any AT work that might be needed. This way you can pop out of cover, lay down some shots then charge into HtH. Mind you this is all based off of deployment and cover options.

Then if you want to take the easy dis-advantage, eye to eye is pretty easy to live with

If you want to check out different options and lists that are already out there, I recommend Bolter and Chainswaord Army List Reviews Quite a few lists that have been peer reviewed there, might help lend some ideas for you.

I was thinking using them to occupy cover/choke points or set up a firebase from the start and get an assault style unit or two in place to keep the rest covered.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Plastics are harder and more expensive to make. Coupled with the fact that they are cheaper for us and easier to convert (and plain model, IMO, no super glue to worry about), and I don't see how they're particuarly price-gougish.

Now the stupid "alien flora," now that's price gouging.

yes, especially when you compare the prices to the same object in say "petco"

[2000AD]

Damnit, Tau still get shat on if you want to do a decent kill team.

- Battle suits are out (no multi wounds)
- Stealth suits will break at least 1 mutable (no weapons >S7 or more than 2 shots a turn)
- Fire warriors are limited in equipment and can pretty much just get a squad of 12 firewarrirors.
- Kroot can't take shapers or Krootox (No multiwounds)
- Gundrones..... who wants a kill team of gundrones?
- Path finders break an immutable (no more than one Heavy weapon, markerlight = heavy) and a mutable (Must take devilfish therefore can't obey normal unit restrictions)
- Vespids are ok, but again lacking in variability.

To get a cool Kill Team your going to have to break a few rules and that just works against you in the long run.

I'm tempted to say "fuck it" and take a kill team of 5 Kroot shapers and 3 Kroot hounds. That'll break 1 immutable (No multiwounds) and 1 mutable (Pick from same unit entry) to give the opponent 35 extra points and 3 more brute squads, but it would be worth it to see the look on his face when i mention that each shaper has 3 wounds.
That's if my interpretation of the rules example in the rule book is right, otherwise it will be 65 extra points and 6 extra brute squads.

[The Yosemite Bear]

hey anyone care to compare water effects to white glue?

I know standard wood glue dries clear.....

[Utsanomiko]

[quote="2000AD"][/quote]

Each rule-breaking model counts against you, not each single rule broken.

I'd just like to know how much it'd cost for a brute squad of Firewarriors. Using Gun Drones really isn't interesting from either standpoint. Sisters of Battle would be good to figure out, as well though I'd suspect it'd be almost as many as Storm Troopers.

[Azazal]

hey anyone care to compare water effects to white glue?

I know standard wood glue dries clear.....

White glue isn's the greatest, sometime you need to bite the bullet and gat the model train stuff - http://www.woodlandscenics.com/index.htm LANDSCAPING then WATER

[2000AD]

I'd just like to know how much it'd cost for a brute squad of Firewarriors. Using Gun Drones really isn't interesting from either standpoint. Sisters of Battle would be good to figure out, as well though I'd suspect it'd be almost as many as Storm Troopers.

Yeah, that's anotyher thing that annoyed me, brute squads are gun drones. What sort of upgrades is the boss meant to get? He becomes a marker drone?

3 Tau firewarriors cost 30 points, which is actually 6 points cheaper than 3 gun drones. I think they choose gun drones as Tau with Pulse rifles could seriously mess up kill teams (R30" S5 AP5 rapid fire), but that's solved by giving them pulse carbines instead (R18" S5 AP5 Assault 1, pinning). Still a bit nasty, but not rapid fire nasty.

[Keevan_Colton]

Anyone know what the rules are like these days for allies?

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Anyone know what the rules are like these days for allies?

They are detailed in the Inquisitorial codices (Daemonhunters and Witchhunters thus far). Beyond that, none, except for your usual megabattles and the like.

[Utsanomiko]

To clarify, the basic gist of the allies rule itself allows for up to two allied Troop units, one HQ, one Elite, and one Fast Attack (no Heavy), but your compulsory units have to come from your own army list.

But it is in fact just for use with the Inquisition and mixing their forces with Space Marines or the Imperial Guard. Although Kroot Mercenaries follow the same guideline, and as usual nothing's really stopping two players from agreeing to other allies for a friendly game.