The Size of the Droid Army "Retconned"

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-19 04:47am

Which is why McEwok's suggestion that the second part of the sentence dealing with "clone divisions", means "clones" instead of "divisions" is so hilarious. Apparently, he forgets English grammar when it suits his purpose.

Just as "assault ships" in NEC according to him means "anything other and smaller than Acclamators" when at least 200 get sent to Muunilinst. Never mind the fact that no distinction is ever made to identify different types or treat them as anything else than Acclamators.

You don't need parodies when you are one.

Hot Hands Harry · Post by **Hot Hands Harry** » 2006-04-20 03:18pm

Bingo I was looking around and found thisLittle gem. The 327th Star Corps. Fought at the battle of Geonosis. Using the T-canon of Corps: 4 legions. Strength: 36,864 men.

327 Corps = 12,054,528 clones at the end of AotC lower limit.

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-20 03:27pm

They specified somewhere that military unit names don't reflect the size of the army. Sorry.

But I have been told of many sources and quotes that make such a strong case against 3 mill, it's ridiculous.

And that's going to be the decisive factor, if you can't win with logic, win with sheer amount of evidence.

Hot Hands Harry · Post by **Hot Hands Harry** » 2006-04-20 04:05pm

They specified somewhere that military unit names don't reflect the size of the army. Sorry.

Really where? Not that I don’t believe you, its just that the Kamino struck me that they were anal about numbers. I don’t think they would skip numbers of units.

But I have been told of many sources and quotes that make such a strong case against 3 mill, it's ridiculous.

There are tons. The only way that this 3 million numbers would work is if they recotoned it to be Grand Army of the Republic = 1st Division. 1st Division is under the Senate and JedI Council control. For political purposes. The rest of the planets defense is separate. That would also explain why it is so beat up. Every senator is sending them out on there own pork barrel errand. To look good on camera.

And that's going to be the decisive factor, if you can't win with logic, win with sheer amount of evidence.

I am going to be looking into more evidence. I'm thinking about going threw all the clone wars comics and counting the dead clones.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-24 02:47am

Another "talifan" entry by Traviss:

+http://karentraviss.livejournal.com/

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-24 02:59am

Hehe- KevinK from TrekBBS mentioned Darkstar as a Talifan example. Sure that would burst his bubble if he read it

Heck- who am I kidding, that's probably all he does!

000 · Post by **000** » 2006-04-24 03:26am

Eh, I don't get it. Where is she seeing the kind of behavior she's describing? Did a fan piss in her cereal or something?

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-04-24 03:28am

I dunno man. I think she takes the purely factual statement that her blatant Clone Wars revisionism is not only a load of steaming bullshit, but also, mind-numbingly stupid and staggeringly improbable, a bit personel, eh?

VT-16 · Post by **VT-16** » 2006-04-24 04:12am

She made another entry?

This time, I won't even bother with it.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-24 04:33am

VT-16 wrote:She made another entry?

This time, I won't even bother with it.

I don't get it either. It seems to me that she is the one stirring up things, not the people who doesn't agree with her. I find her unjustified attacks on people that have spoken out on the clone issue (for example, calling everybody over the age of 14 "sickos" as she did here +http://karentraviss.livejournal.com/280 ... 8#t4780948) to be quite unacceptable.
Since when are authors immune to criticism anyway?

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-24 05:32am

The gist of her new entry:

We just bash her because we're attention whores.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-24 06:21am

These people want desperately to be seen as important and fearless...

Yes, I'm sure that is why people are critical, they want fame.

apocolypse · Post by **apocolypse** » 2006-04-24 09:27am

Jim Raynor wrote:The gist of her new entry:

We just bash her because we're attention whores.

Screw her. I'd heard several positive things about her books, and thought about eventually picking a couple of them up. But after seeing her actions before, and especially this now, I don't plan on ever buying anything from her. Not that my few little dollars matter mind you, but I find it hard to support an author who not only either can't or won't see an error in their work, but then continue to wail on and on about some perceived attack.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-24 01:16pm

I don't even know what to say about the exchange that followed this LJ member's post:
+http://karentraviss.livejournal.com/284 ... 4#t5010314

Jim Raynor · Post by **Jim Raynor** » 2006-04-24 01:27pm

icehawk is one of the few intelligent people on TFN. He definately showed balls with that post, although such honest, no-bullshit words will just give them an excuse to dismiss him as a "Talifan."

EDIT: As expected, Karen Traviss' response:

Ah, my old troll friend! Welcome. Enjoy your stay. It'll be brief!

Just try and read the banter between her and that asskisser "jamesgilmer."

Archon · Post by **Archon** » 2006-04-24 01:57pm

Her hypocrisy is only trumped by her idiocy.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2006-04-24 02:46pm

I just love how her douchebag supporter decries Icehawk (actually "they") for his "mock-Victorian transparently ignorant overblown language," and then TWO POSTS LATER busts out with:

jamesgilmer wrote: Hold now, fair Maiden Author, perhaps methinks we stand on the cusps of the shoals of that dark land known as Trolldom ourselves. Is it proper that me engage the mentally challanged in games of wits for sport?

Should we not conduct ourselves with an air of grace and dignity as befits our status?

It goes on like that, too. What a tool.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-24 03:01pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I just love how her douchebag supporter decries Icehawk (actually "they") for his "mock-Victorian transparently ignorant overblown language," and then TWO POSTS LATER busts out with:

jamesgilmer wrote: Hold now, fair Maiden Author, perhaps methinks we stand on the cusps of the shoals of that dark land known as Trolldom ourselves. Is it proper that me engage the mentally challanged in games of wits for sport?

Should we not conduct ourselves with an air of grace and dignity as befits our status?
It goes on like that, too. What a tool.

Hmm... Funny that the name "james" keeps popping up...

Utah Jak · Post by **Utah Jak** » 2006-04-24 03:18pm

Master of Ossus wrote:I just love how her douchebag supporter decries Icehawk (actually "they") for his "mock-Victorian transparently ignorant overblown language," and then TWO POSTS LATER busts out with:

jamesgilmer wrote: Hold now, fair Maiden Author, perhaps methinks we stand on the cusps of the shoals of that dark land known as Trolldom ourselves. Is it proper that me engage the mentally challanged in games of wits for sport?

Should we not conduct ourselves with an air of grace and dignity as befits our status?
It goes on like that, too. What a tool.

Damn. That sounds like a sock-puppet to me. No one is that stupid.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-04-24 05:24pm

Question on Traviss: Can she actually write her way out of a paper bag?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-24 06:15pm

I think it's amusing that Traviss is apparently so vulnerable to her own spin. She appears to be becoming increasingly strident, unreasonable and vindictive as the debate continues.

Alan Bolte · Post by **Alan Bolte** » 2006-04-24 06:34pm

Regarding my previous post, I think it is important to note that following "200 thousand clone troops" we see "millions more" describing the number of individual troops other facilities can produce. Then in the "divisions" quote, we also see that "millions more" are undergoing performance evalutation. The use of the same phrase in the different contexts might be a contributor to the disagreement about the meaning of the "divisions" quote.

Noble Ire · Post by **Noble Ire** » 2006-04-24 06:35pm

NecronLord wrote:Question on Traviss: Can she actually write her way out of a paper bag?

That's the thing. At least compared to many post-Thrawn Duology authors, she's actually pretty decent with prose, and her characters and combat are fairly well done. And unless she's trying to make a point, her views on the "brushfire" Clone Wars don't really factor into her novels much, save in passing. Its a shame that one of the better current EU authors has to discredit herself like this.

Grand Admiral Thrawn · Post by **Grand Admiral Thrawn** » 2006-04-24 09:17pm

The minimalism of a 3 million man clone army and a droid army in the hundred million range is obvious when you think about something like the Coruscant police force. The US, with a population just under 300 million, has something like 600 thousand police officers. If we use the same ratio for Coruscant, with its quadrillion level population, its force would be in the trillions (even with a ratio of 1 officer per 10 000 people you still get hundreds of billions of cops).

Obviously police officers aren't soldiers but Coruscant probably has a SWAT equivalent that could easily number in the billions. By training and equipping them properly you would have an army that dwarfed both the Seperatists and the Loyalists. God help the Star Wars galaxy if the police departments of the core worlds ever banded together, seized some military equipment and decided to conquer some planets.

Mange · Post by **Mange** » 2006-04-25 02:49am

Traviss is asking her fans whether or not she would create an archive of sorts in which:

[...] I fancied a permanent spot where I can post the spewings of the TTTs who impinge on the otherwise happy world of our SW fandom. Posts,web pages, brave attempts to play chicken with LFL Legal - even their e-mails to me - accompanied by a little illumination of who they actually are and their credentials.

What Traviss seems to have forgotten is: who offended who? I haven't seen anyone over at TFN calling her the sort of things she has called people who doesn't agree with her views of the Clone Wars, they are "talifans" with certain characteristics and everybody over 14 are "sickos".