"...every tongue confess Jesus as Lord..."

[Magnetic]

Just curious about something. In the Bible, it states that "every knee shall bow, .. ..and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God...".

My question is, what would it take for you (especially those of you who are professing atheists) to confess that, on bended knee? "Confess" gives you the idea that the person believes it to be truth. Such as the definition given in the dictionary:

1. To disclose (something damaging or inconvenient to oneself); admit. See Synonyms at acknowledge.
2. To acknowledge belief or faith in; profess.

If a person doesn't believe it TO be true, an actual confession wouldn't be true. . . . and if coersed, still not an actual confession.

[Mr. Coffee]

It would require proof of God's existance. Like God standing before me and prooving it.

"Hi, I'm the Lord thy God!"

"Yeah, sure. Prove it."

"I parted the waters for Moses! Watch this, I'll part that lake over there..."

"Big deal... MGM did the same thing for Charleton Heston back in the 1950s."

"I destroyed two cities!"

"Whoopity frickin' doo da... My country did the same back in the 1940's, and we had a slighty better reason for it then the towns being full of queers."

"Umm... I created life!"

"So what? We can do the same thing in a glass jar with some organic compounds and a bit of electricity."

"Well, pick a man out of the crowd and I'll let you torment him with boils and shit!"

"Who gives a shit about boils, I'll just introduce the poor bastard to my Ex."

"Um... Well.. Er..."

"Out of curiousity, is it true you kill a kitten every time I rub one out?"

[Magnetic]

This Biblical event takes place after this existance is over, . . . .when everyone is no longer living on this planet.

Anyway, yes, he proves that he is Jesus that the Bible spoke of.

[Mr. Coffee]

Ok, then how exactly did He prove it? And since I'm an Atheist and this is now happening after the "Glorious Returning" or whatever, why am I not burning in hell or whatever us non-believers are supposed to go? That's fucking retarded. So what you're asking now is..

"If you had just witnessed and somehow managed to survive all the envents laid out in Revelations, personally witnessed Jesus and the entire Heavenly Host appear out of nowhere, and were now standing in front of a being that just demonstrated beyond any doubt that HE IS GOD, what would it take for you to accept it?"

Are you fucking dense or something?

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

This Biblical event takes place after this existance is over, . . . .when everyone is no longer living on this planet.

Anyway, yes, he proves that he is Jesus that the Bible spoke of.

Like the other guy said. As I am a godless atheist sinner, if everything in the Book of Revelations came to pass, I'd be going to Hell anyway, so what I thought before all that becomes something of a moot point. Most atheists are rational, not stupid. If everything in Revelations happened as described, then disbelief in Jesus would no longer be the rational course of action.

[General Zod]

This Biblical event takes place after this existance is over, . . . .when everyone is no longer living on this planet.

Anyway, yes, he proves that he is Jesus that the Bible spoke of.

So, what are you trying to ask here?

"What would it take to convince you that being X is god?" or "What would you do if God proved himself to be real"? Because from reading both your posts it seems like you're asking different things in each of them, and the second post completely changes the topic.

[Magnetic]

Ok, then how exactly did He prove it? And since I'm an Atheist and this is now happening after the "Glorious Returning" or whatever, why am I not burning in hell or whatever us non-believers are supposed to go? That's fucking retarded. So what you're asking now is..

"If you had just witnessed and somehow managed to survive all the envents laid out in Revelations, personally witnessed Jesus and the entire Heavenly Host appear out of nowhere, and were now standing in front of a being that just demonstrated beyond any doubt that HE IS GOD, what would it take for you to accept it?"

Are you fucking dense or something?

Hey, I'm just stating what Protestant religions states. I used to BE a Protestant Fundie, but not anymore. I'm just asking the question as a hypothetical. Go with it that way.

Anyway, there is apparently some time when everyone is supposed to bow knee and confess Jesus is Lord. . . . . . . I have no idea as to when that is supposed to be . . . . . . .

Anway, the way he proves it is irrelevant. The point is, it is proven that Jesus of the Bible is real. So, yes, the

hypothetical question is, would you accept it?

[Mr. Coffee]

Hey, I'm just stating what Protestant religions states. I used to BE a Protestant Fundie, but not anymore. I'm just asking the question as a hypothetical. Go with it that way.

No, what you're doing is completely changing the original question of "What would it take for you (especially those of you who are professing atheists) to confess that, on bended knee?" into "God/Jesus has proven beyond the shadow of doubt he is real, would you bow down to him now?"

If the former question, then as I said before, I need concrete proof. I'm an athiest, not an irrational idiot. He proves it, then I'd be forced to re-evaluate my position.

If the latter, it's a moot point as I would be burning in hell along with anyone that wasn't a Christian.

Anyway, there is apparently some time when everyone is supposed to bow knee and confess Jesus is Lord. . . . . . . I have no idea as to when that is supposed to be . . . . . . .

It's simple, dumbass... Go pick up a bible and start reading. If the event you're talking about is there, eventually you'll stumble across it. Or, if you're lazy, try Google.

Anway, the way he proves it is irrelevant.

Actually, it's very relevant. If some random guy comes up to me and says "Hi, I'm the Lord thy God, bow before me!" I'm going to want something more concrete then his word on it.

If I happen to witness the events of Revelations, and I'm being judged, then it's meaningless because according to the bible I'll be going to hell anyways. As I'd already be going to hell anyways, I see no logical reason for why I should suddenly start kissing the ass of the entity responsible for condemning me to eternal torment.

[Lord of the Abyss]

Given the outright silliness of Christianity, it would take some kind of brainwashing. I'd believe I was hallucinating or in the Matrix before I'd believe in it.

[Admiral Johnason]

Revelations is full of crap, and I do mean that. If God is so smart, then why is he giving away his battle plans and specific places to hurt his armies? The book is subterfuge. I just believe that the story in the Gopel is enough and I am not going to follow the rantings to some crazy guy on Patmos. The only real reason to keep it is that the book needs and ending, and we really could have done better.

[dworkin]

At the point of a sword or a barrel of a gun.

Truly, the old ways are best.

[Ford Prefect]

You know what it would take for me? For him to stop being a complete asshole. I'd be quite willing to serve an all-loving God.

The only problem is, God's an utter bastard with a sadistic streak the stretches here to Deneb and an ego considerably larger than the Virgo Supercluster. And he can't redeem himself either; as my choice to bend or not will come post-Revelations, where God flips the bird the majority of the human race.

So, no, it's not likely.

[defanatic]

This Biblical event takes place after this existance is over, . . . .when everyone is no longer living on this planet.

Anyway, yes, he proves that he is Jesus that the Bible spoke of.

Like the other guy said. As I am a godless atheist sinner, if everything in the Book of Revelations came to pass, I'd be going to Hell anyway, so what I thought before all that becomes something of a moot point. Most atheists are rational, not stupid. If everything in Revelations happened as described, then disbelief in Jesus would no longer be the rational course of action.

You have already died, and this is hell.

[Magnetic]

I apologize for the other posts. Please disregard them and allow me to rephrase:

If the Bible is the LITERAL word of God, and is all truth, . . . .then at some point in the future, everyone will bow knee and confess that Jesus is Lord. The meaning behind posting this here is to ask you what it would take for you to willingly agree to this "confession of Jesus as Lord"?

The POINT is to say that the verse in question must be the result of some guy's wishful thinking. I don't see the bible as the LITERAL and EXACT DICTATION of God to these men who wrote these texts thousands of years ago. Inspiration doesn't equate to exact dictation.

When I was thinking about this text, it made me wonder what it would take for Muslims, Hindus, those of the Pagan religions, atheists, . . . basically any non-christian person to disregard all they have known and embrace Jesus as Lord.

Then I think, .. . . . what if Christians die and stand before a set of Gods and Godesses from some other religion. . . . . . . .Would they accept THEM in lue of all they have always known?

Again, I apologize for starting this thread off a bit ambiguous.

[Darth Raptor]

Christianity is probably the most dismal, depressing work of fiction I can think of. It makes Warhammer 40,000 look like a blissful paradise by comparison.

Seriously, God is lonely. He's bored after floating around for a negative eternity (explain that) so He builds himself a nice pad with a bunch of servants to gobble His nuts and tell him how great He is. Problem: One of them gets it in his head that just because you create something doesn't mean you have absolute sovereignty over it. Civil war ensues. After God's massive fuckup He decides to try again- seeding this planet with stupid and powerless beings (but still intelligent enough to stroke his ego- dumb animals are insufficient). Everything goes great for a while until His old nemesis shows up and hints to the newbs that they can think for themselves. They become God's intellectual equals and potentially His technological equals (oh noes!).

This is unacceptable, so God stunts humanity's powers and makes them mortal. Furthermore, He makes their now finite lives an object lesson in pain and misery because He's a vindictive fuck. Not to worry though, if they impress Him during the tortures (by killing enough defenseless beings) they can resume their original function (licking the divine ball sack). If not, they burn in Hell because you can't kill a soul and that's the next best thing.

Well gee, that didn't work either. God's rules are cruel and asinine and make no sense whatsoever. Wonder of wonders, not many people are making it into Heaven. There needs to be an easier way, but God's blood lust simply MUST be sated. Idea! He rapes a human girl and has his divine son murdered- that seems sufficient. So now if people only accept His free gift of salvation He will save them from... Himself! The rest of the world is destroyed in a global holocaust. What a family friendly story.

I said all that to say this: I don't believe in God for logical and scientific reasons; namely, the Bible is inconsistent with the observable universe. However, if it were made known to me that the Bible is true and God is real, He becomes public enemy number one. He will never have my fealty unless He forces it. I would devote my entire life to bringing Him down (and it IS possible) even allying with Satan if necessary.

[CaptJodan]

If the Bible is the LITERAL word of God, and is all truth, . . . .then at some point in the future, everyone will bow knee and confess that Jesus is Lord. The meaning behind posting this here is to ask you what it would take for you to willingly agree to this "confession of Jesus as Lord"?

I suppose if God actually was as powerful as he claims he is (but demonstrates he's not) and you wanted to take the passage literally, you could say that God forces everyone down on their knees and confess that Jesus is Lord.

Barring that, I think you'd find too many people in the world who you MIGHT convince that he is Lord, but that would still hate or reject him primarily on his past transgressions. Thus I dare say that many may not go down on their knees in respect to him. Some might not even give him the satisfaction of saying it, whether they believe it or not. God or no, the individaul would have to chose whether he's worth worshiping and honoring. Some, I think, wouldn't chose to. So it sounds to me that if you want to take it literally, it'd have to be forced upon the person.

[SirNitram]

Oh dear oh dear. Here we go again. 'God created everlasting torment for everyone who doesn't kiss his ass but he loves us. Because everyone knows a loving father ruthlessly beats and brands his children.'

What a silly, silly beleif. Why would a being so infinite, so grand in scope, give a shit about Humanity and what it beleives? No scientist sits in judgement of a petri dish, deciding which samples of bacteria are sinners and not worshipping him, and thus casting them to fiery death while sparing the rest. And that's the scale.

As for God being good and all-powerful..

And the Lord repented of the evil which he though to do unto his people.

And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

[Magnetic]

If the Bible is the LITERAL word of God, and is all truth, . . . .then at some point in the future, everyone will bow knee and confess that Jesus is Lord.

If we take the bible literally then we will be forced to bow down anyway, as god would be removing free will at that point. Your question becomes pointless, as it will no long be up to me if I want to bow down or not.

As for other gods/goddesses/flying spaghetti monsters, same goes for them. FUCKING PROVE IT! Then I'll consider it.

*disclaimer as to my 'beliefs'* What Christianity states as God's word .. . . . shouldn't be held as absolute fact. They are still words written down by some humans long ago, and what they wrote is what is BELIEVED to be exactly from God's mouth. I happen to doubt that every word of the bible can be attributed to the Judeo Christian God, and that, over the centuries, new ideologies were thrown in, or original manuscripts changed to fit in with the "headlines" of that particular time. *end disclaimer*

In this instance, there was irrefutable proof given that Jesus is the same person who is spoken of in the bible. It is proven that He DID infact die and DID rise again on the third day for the sins of the world. The evidence given (at that time) would be convincing. Would that make a difference TO YOU?

[Darth Wong]

When I was thinking about this text, it made me wonder what it would take for Muslims, Hindus, those of the Pagan religions, atheists, . . . basically any non-christian person to disregard all they have known and embrace Jesus as Lord.

When part of "all they have known" (and which conflicts with Biblical dogma) is objective reality, that's pretty difficult unless you become delusional.

[Magnetic]

When I was thinking about this text, it made me wonder what it would take for Muslims, Hindus, those of the Pagan religions, atheists, . . . basically any non-christian person to disregard all they have known and embrace Jesus as Lord.

When part of "all they have known" (and which conflicts with Biblical dogma) is objective reality, that's pretty difficult unless you become delusional.

To add to the post I just posted, . . . . . however it is done, . . . evidence is brought forth that makes sense. . . . . perhaps something that science would have eventually discovered anyway. So, there would be no delusions, but everyone would say (basically), . . . "Oh! I see now."

FWIW, I'm not talking about God showing how he DID create the world in 6 days, or that he flooded the entire earth. I think that those events didn't occur anyway. Too much evidence the contrary.

[Darth Wong]

To add to the post I just posted, . . . . . however it is done, . . . evidence is brought forth that makes sense. . . . . perhaps something that science would have eventually discovered anyway. So, there would be no delusions, but everyone would say (basically), . . . "Oh! I see now."

And how would this evidence somehow nullify the evidence we already have which makes the Biblical account nothing more than a fairy tale for children and idiots?

FWIW, I'm not talking about God showing how he DID create the world in 6 days, or that he flooded the entire earth. I think that those events didn't occur anyway. Too much evidence the contrary.

Then what exact God are you talking about? How are we supposed to know he's the Biblical God when there's no reliable definition now of what the Biblical God actually is?

[Mr. Coffee]

To add to the post I just posted, . . . . . however it is done, . . . evidence is brought forth that makes sense. . . . . perhaps something that science would have eventually discovered anyway.

So it's back to handwavium? By the way, are you every going to pick a fucking scenario and stick with it?

So, there would be no delusions, but everyone would say (basically), . . . "Oh! I see now."

Yeah, there would. My first question to "God" and the Hevenly Host would be "All right, which one of you assholes slipped me the acid? Come on, fess up...", as a drug induced halucination would still make more sense as an explanation.

I think that those events didn't occur anyway. Too much evidence the contrary.

If there's to much evidence to the contrary then wouldn't that mean they you would require some sort of evidence in order to accept "God" before you bow down and kiss his ass?

[Lagmonster]

To add to the post I just posted, . . . . . however it is done, . . . evidence is brought forth that makes sense. . . . . perhaps something that science would have eventually discovered anyway. So, there would be no delusions, but everyone would say (basically), . . . "Oh! I see now."

Just to step in on you here, you have made a lot of posts that seem to be trying to latch onto one particular concept you have revolving around whether or not people can accept the bible, or even parts of it, as true. While I'm not entirely yet certain where you're leading here, the astoundingly obvious conclusion I would offer is that many biblical statements are not capable of containing truth. Once you reach that conclusion, you realize that you can suddenly eliminate a whole pile of philosophical or theological questions right off the bat.

[Magnetic]

Darth Wong, and Mr. Coffee, . . . . . those sections, as I see them, were probably children's stories that were told, not literal events. Probaly the reason why they sound so simplistic in nature. But, stories to teach them some aspect of God I'm not sure why they would include the facts that they do (everyone dying except Noah's family), but these stories became so well known that they became (to them) "facts" and entered into the belief system of the early Hebrew people.

Just because Jesus makes mention of them in the NT, doesn't mean they were literal occurances. If I mention "the boy who cried wolf", I don't have to repeat a whole story to point out the possible side effects of lying all the time.

Anyway, my questions run together. The evidence given makes sense (not those things that run contrary to evidence). There is no question that this Jesus IS a "supernatural being" and DID do such things as depicted in the bible out of love for us. The question is, would you confess this Jesus as Lord? . . . . . . In otherwords, would you STILL be defiant?

This is the "bottom line". It speaks to the probability that "every knee will bow . . and tongue confess" won't actually happen. . . . . . . .unless forced, . . . . but then that wouldn't be an actual confession since "confession" requires the confessor to believe what's being confessed.

[Magnetic]

Ghetto Edit: In other words, would you, regardless, still be defiant.

Sorry.