Need help with a school project- what do you think of rap?

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2006-04-24 09:38pm

We were asked to write a comparison between the criticism of rock music in the 50s with the criticism of rap music today, so I'm coming to you guys to help me. Just write a summary of your feelings on rap music, and I'll be very grateful.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Rap, not rock

EDIT: Quantum fluctuations corrected.

Silver Jedi · Post by **Silver Jedi** » 2006-04-24 09:58pm

Um, the criticism of rock music in the 50s with the criticism of rap music today? Or did I completely misunderstand you?

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2006-04-24 10:08pm

Silver Jedi wrote:Um, the criticism of rock music in the 50s with the criticism of rap music today? Or did I completely misunderstand you?

I have no idea what you are talking about. It said rock music the whole time. Pay no attention to the edit line.

>_>

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-04-24 10:12pm

Rap music in the 50s? There was no such thing.

Qwerty 42 · Post by **Qwerty 42** » 2006-04-24 10:15pm

Bah, I'm not allowed to make my History papers interesting by incorporating time travel, I see

.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2006-04-24 10:27pm

I do not have problem with rap as a type of music, though it does not appeal to me (17, Female, in case it helps your project.) I do think it lacks a significant amount of grace and quality that other types of music, including rock, possess. Nevertheless, it does require some degree of ability, however loathe I am to admit it. I do, on the other hand, think that most of the lyrics are goddamn disgraceful, especially in regards to women. I simply find a large amount of them to be extremely offensive (especially "My Humps". What the fuck was wrong with the people who wrote that song?!) This from a Marylin Manson fan.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2006-04-24 10:35pm

My feelings are that rap, although it is a form of "music" in a broad sense, and does take skill, is simply very, very bad. It's like comparing graffiti artists to professional painters. Not to mention the stuff that's encouraged through rap, ie: drug use, shooting people, women as objects, etc.

Of course, there are exceptions. There always are.

...actually, if you define music with the requirement that there's some sort of melody... a lot of rap music doesn't qualify

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2006-04-24 10:46pm

My Humps is probably the most sobering experience I've ever had as a fan of popular music. The first time I heard it on the radio I was honestly thinking "is this for real?" Sadly, it was. I should point out that it is more accurately classified as hip-hop, though.

I'm not particularly enamored with rap/hip-hop - it doesn't speak to me at all. I do enjoy a few artists, most notably Kanye West, who I'm going to rant a bit about now.

Specifically, the song Diamonds are Forever. The remixed version on Late Registration. A hell of a song; effective use of sampling, a catchy beat, and social conscience. Until the second half of the song - WHEN HE BRINGS IN JAY-Z TO RAP ABOUT HOW RICH HE IS.

WHAT. THE. FUCK. Did it occur to no one involved with the production of the album that another "look how rich I am" fest tacked on to a song about kids dying in Africa for the illegal diamond trade MIGHT have been in bad taste?

It sums up one of my biggest problems with the genre; fucking egotism that's bad even by celebrity standards. Eminem is the biggest offender, and I don't think it's unfair to point him out since for the bulk of the early 2000s he was the most popular figure in the genre. I can't even listen to that whiny little shit without walking away in disgust for the fact that he's taken a sick personality disorder and made himself into a massive star with it, and we let him.

I do want to try and get into some of the more respected rap someday - groups like De La Soul and Public Enemy, perhaps - but I can't imagine the genre will ever do as much for me as rock or the blues does.

Spacebeard · Post by **Spacebeard** » 2006-04-24 10:48pm

I prefer my music to be more about instruments and melody than about lyrics. It was actually a long time before I was ever able to enjoy listening to music with any singing in it at all. Rap is usually the exact polar opposite: there usually is no melody at all, just lyrics recited over a canned backbeat probably stolen from a 70s pop song. My impression is that people who do appreciate rap primarily enjoy the wording of the lyrics (for example, I've heard someone rave about the greatness of rap lines that were something like "for you it's a Bentley / for me it's a blue car").

The only rap songs I've heard and liked are the two featured in Office Space, and that's probably solely due to their placement in the movie.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2006-04-24 10:50pm

Rap is usually the exact polar opposite: there usually is no melody at all, just lyrics recited over a canned backbeat probably stolen from a 70s pop song.

This is another frequent annoyance; does it bother no one that the artists effectively use the work of superior artists like Stevie Wonder to get their singles at the top of the charts?

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2006-04-24 10:57pm

It bothers me as well.

Actually, my thing about rap is it completely lacks melody. When I am passenger in a friend's car who likes rap, they're bouncing around and mouthing the words and I'm sitting there thinking, "This is pretty much just noise... ."

The Jazz Intern · Post by **The Jazz Intern** » 2006-04-24 11:44pm

I can understand rap as quick poetry.
I dislike, however, rap, its filthy language (swearing doesn't botherme, I'm talking about some descriptions, and "themes")
Rock, well, I don;t really like that metal stuff (marylin mansons just a little to over the edge for me) but I dislike muzak.
hope that helps you!

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-04-24 11:59pm

The shit these days that passes for music is why I classify actual rap artists like the Beastie Boys as "hip hop".

Not only do they not write lyrics full of profanity because it's easy to come up with rhymes for swears, but they have actual MUSIC in the background. They compose much of it themselves, and what their DJ Mixmaster Mike does with records is amazing.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2006-04-25 09:00am

Joe wrote:
Rap is usually the exact polar opposite: there usually is no melody at all, just lyrics recited over a canned backbeat probably stolen from a 70s pop song.
This is another frequent annoyance; does it bother no one that the artists effectively use the work of superior artists like Stevie Wonder to get their singles at the top of the charts?

It is annoying, but I still think they can be done right. Coolio redoing Pastime Paradise, and Weird Al parodying the Coolio version being the best examples.

Gangsta's Paradise, I feel is one of the best rap songs, the whole outlook is tragic, there's good use of synths and choirs, and it was critical of the "gangsta" life as opposed to touting it as an actual cool way to live.

My favourite rap song would probably be "Down with the King" by Run DMC, it actually has a guitar solo in it, that's more metal than Linkin Park!

As for the OP, most new genres of music get the same criticism, "it's all noise" "it's corrupting the youth" "they don't obey their parents" "it encourages drug use and alcoholism" etc.

At least they don't get "playing records backwards with hidden satanic messages" bullshit that metal got.

If you need it, I'm 21, male, from the UK. The music I started listening to was eclectic hard dance, Prodigy - the fat of the land being the first album I bought, which has a dance/rap song on it called Diesel Power, so I've never been really averse to it, though I preferred the rockier songs. Now, I mainly listen to technical death metal, but like lots and lots of different styles of music.

Darth Yoshi · Post by **Darth Yoshi** » 2006-04-25 07:49pm

Pick wrote:It bothers me as well.

Actually, my thing about rap is it completely lacks melody. When I am passenger in a friend's car who likes rap, they're bouncing around and mouthing the words and I'm sitting there thinking, "This is pretty much just noise... ."

Thank you. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's just the same two measures over and over and over. Now, I listen to game soundtracks, which tend to repeat as well. But at least video game music has melodies lasting more than 5 seconds.

Hawkwings · Post by **Hawkwings** » 2006-04-26 01:11am

Movie Soundtracks. The last bastion of *real* music in this sad, sad little world today.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2006-04-26 01:36am

Pick wrote:It bothers me as well.

Actually, my thing about rap is it completely lacks melody. When I am passenger in a friend's car who likes rap, they're bouncing around and mouthing the words and I'm sitting there thinking, "This is pretty much just noise... ."

People would say similar of Stockhausen, Antheil, Panderecki, and Cage. Why does lack of a tonal melody suddenly qualify it as noise?

Hawkwings wrote:Movie Soundtracks. The last bastion of *real* music in this sad, sad little world today.

Certainly one of the few bridges between orchestral music and the non-artseeking public, but please tell me what you mean by "real" music. If there is a new definition out there, I would like to know so that I might rid my CD collection of the fakers out there.
------------------------------------------

Rap is just another form of music. Like every other form of music, there is good and there is bad. Unfortunately as well, there are a good deal of people who are not conscious of the whole of the idiom and only have heard the top most played artists, thus giving them a skewed view of the art.

Morilore · Post by **Morilore** » 2006-04-26 01:44am

18, Male. I haven't heard much of it. What I have heard, I tend not to like, but I've been finding more and more exceptions recently, largely due to my roomate.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2006-04-26 02:04am

Saurencaerthai wrote:
Pick wrote:It bothers me as well.

Actually, my thing about rap is it completely lacks melody. When I am passenger in a friend's car who likes rap, they're bouncing around and mouthing the words and I'm sitting there thinking, "This is pretty much just noise... ."
People would say similar of Stockhausen, Antheil, Panderecki, and Cage. Why does lack of a tonal melody suddenly qualify it as noise?

I'm sorry that my thoughts does not meet your exacting specifications, Big Brother.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2006-04-26 02:11am

Pick wrote:
Saurencaerthai wrote:
Pick wrote:It bothers me as well.

Actually, my thing about rap is it completely lacks melody. When I am passenger in a friend's car who likes rap, they're bouncing around and mouthing the words and I'm sitting there thinking, "This is pretty much just noise... ."
People would say similar of Stockhausen, Antheil, Panderecki, and Cage. Why does lack of a tonal melody suddenly qualify it as noise?

I'm sorry that my thoughts does not meet your exacting specifications, Big Brother.

It's an honest question. I've seen so many people dismiss compositions that lack any sort of tonal melody and I am always curious as to why they do so. I can certainly understand disliking something, but at least to me, it seemed like a big jump to dismiss it from being music. If you'd rather not explain the reasoning behind your thoughts, then pardon my curiosity.

Pick · Post by **Pick** » 2006-04-26 09:50am

Saurencaerthai wrote:
It's an honest question. I've seen so many people dismiss compositions that lack any sort of tonal melody and I am always curious as to why they do so. I can certainly understand disliking something, but at least to me, it seemed like a big jump to dismiss it from being music. If you'd rather not explain the reasoning behind your thoughts, then pardon my curiosity.

Look at my first fucking post. I specifically said I do -not- have a problem with it as a type of music.

Personally, however, my mind can translate it only as noise because of a lack of certain characteristics I associate with music, such as not sucking.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2006-04-26 11:06am

Pick wrote:
Saurencaerthai wrote:
It's an honest question. I've seen so many people dismiss compositions that lack any sort of tonal melody and I am always curious as to why they do so. I can certainly understand disliking something, but at least to me, it seemed like a big jump to dismiss it from being music. If you'd rather not explain the reasoning behind your thoughts, then pardon my curiosity.
Look at my first fucking post. I specifically said I do -not- have a problem with it as a type of music.

Personally, however, my mind can translate it only as noise because of a lack of certain characteristics I associate with music, such as not sucking.

Shoot, my apolagies. Looks like I missed it.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2006-04-26 11:12am

28 year old Male, U.S. here. I've been around long enough to see rap evolve from a little-known sort of...undergroundish music-style to the near mainstream crapfest that it is today (and every stage along the way, including rap's Offshoot "Hip-hop"). I've seen the sugarhill gang rise and fall, Run DMC, the Fat Boys, Quad-City DJ's, 69 Boyz, Cypress Hill, you name it, I've heard it, and I've seen it devolve.

When you listen to "old school" rap like the sugarhill gang (I use that example because many people remember it from The Wedding Singer, you can hear that it's almost a fun, party type music, and they even refer to it as "Rock" (You can rock 'til you're 101 years old! for example.) and most of the "New school" or whatever it's called, can be categorized thusly:

1. Ego boosting: I'm better than you and all other rappers. Keep buying my albums so I can keep rapping about it.

2. Rags to riches: I came from the 'hood of Compton, listen to me whine about how hard I had it, how tough I am, and finally, how many Escalades I have. Also rings.

3. Hood Life: Listen to how I glorify senseless violence, degrading women, theft, drug dealing, and how cool it is!

4. Nonsense: This is the type of rap that tries to talk about something, but places a lot of nonsensical crap that rhymes in a few stanzas (And I use that term loosely) to try to convey it. Personally, I find this to be the most irritating. (THAT'S BECAUSE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, YO!) Yeah. I TOTALLY rail against things I don't understand. *Holds up a Cellphone* It's usually offensive in nature.

5. Over the top: a Good example of this is ICP (Insane Clown Posse, FKA. Inner City Posse.) These guys are hilarious. One of the few rap artists I like. They espouse crap that is so out there you know it's BS and they don't REALLY buy into it. No one is safe, either. They're the South Park of the Rap World, and they take themselves as seriously as Matt and Trey. They have to. (ie. A song called Fuck The World features, you guessed it, the word fuck quite prevalently. There is a line in the song that says that within the song, they say fuck 93 times. It is, in fact, closer to 137. I counted.)

I hate most rap because it's usually category 1, 3, or 4.

I don't really know what criticisms were levelled at '50 era rock and roll. Feel free, however to use whatever parts of my post you want in your report as part of your criticisms of rap.

*written quickly at work, forgive grammatical, and spelling errors.*

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-04-26 04:38pm

Not terribly keen.

Mostly for the reasons already stated by Chardok.

I do like old school hip hop, and some more experimental rap/hip hop. (I have a CD by a group from New Orleans called Rebirth, who are one part rap crew one part brass band. It's got the lyrical melody of good rap and hip hop over some foot stomping jazz brass.)

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2006-04-27 12:22am

It's been slowly growing on me as I've been exposed to it more. My kids have been helpful with this, pointing out artists and songs which might be more to my tastes. They seem to enjoy the chance to educate the clueless white guy. All that said, it's really not my thing. I grew up on rock, and it's probably too late to change.

And "My Humps" is so incomprehensibly bad, the first time I heard it I was staring gape-mouthed at the radio.