Wireless Mice and Gaming - Huh?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-24 05:31pm

I've used a wireless mouse almost since they became cheap enough for home users. Right now I'm using an old MX700. I'm an avid gamer, particularly online FPSs.

So imagine my surprise when, looking for a new mouse for my parents, I discover that wireless mice have been considered useless for gaming by everyone! The lag, interference and inaccuracy apparently make them worthless for the high-demand world of gaming.

Is the world different in Australia? I play on the same servers as everyone else, but much less, and I do well. My mouse isn't 'inaccurate', I've never experienced mouse lag in my life, and interference is something that happens when I use BOTH my MX700s too close together.

Has anyone had these problems? Are they just marketing things to create a market for expensive 'gaming mice'? I now recall I'd heard the same complaints uttered by EB staff, who I imagine read this marketing rubbish. When the MX700 came out, I paid AU$200 for it, and I've been happy with it for years. Mouse lag INDEED.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-24 05:46pm

I also use the same mouse, and have not noticed any differences from a wired mouse, except that it is much more convenient. However, I understand that the MX700 is a very high quality mouse compared to other wireless mice that these complaints are directed against.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » 2006-04-24 05:46pm

The kind of people who decry wireless mice as "useless" for gaming are like the audiofools of the computer gaming world. They couldn't actually show quantifiable proof of their claims, they just believe them.

Much like people will pay £10 a metre or more for speaker cables, where a £1 a metre cable will do the same job.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2006-04-24 06:03pm

When the MX700 came out, I paid AU$200 for it, and I've been happy with it for years. Mouse lag INDEED.

For that much money it damn well better work well! Most people don’t want to throw around anything like that much cash on a mouse, and you can get a mouse with a big bad evil wire that will work extremely well in gaming for well under half that price.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-24 06:11pm

Yeah - it was the first of the 'rechargeable' mice, and after constantly replacing the batteries in my older wireless mouse, I was quite prepared to pay to make it go away. These days the similar but better-in-all-respects MX1000 is AU$95.

And Vendetta, that's kind of what I thought. I saw references all over Logitechs site, and through all the reviews, but it just doesn't relate to my reality. The two MX700s hate being nearby and on the same channel (obviously), but the whole 'wireless=lag' thing just struck me as a brainbug. You know, so all the LAN party peeps can say 'oh yeah, those wireless mice have lag, you know' or 'ZOMG MOUSELAG'.

Amusingly, I seem to have lost my other MX700. I kept forgetting to hang it up, so it went flat, so I seized the one from the other charger - I think in one of the switches I managed to lose it.

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2006-04-24 06:19pm

Most hardware websites now accept that high quality wireless mice are good enough for gaming. Your MX-700 was in fact that the harbringer of that change; the G7 and MX1000 are the latest sucessors to that heritage, though the MX1000 is too heavy for serious gaming.

People say all sorts of things. Perhaps some professionals will notice the difference, but mostly I imagine it to be a holdover of the past, like whenever someone tells you "AMD CPU's are nice, but they run so much hotter than Intel!" Personally, I wouldn't bother wireless when I could just have a cable, but I think it depends on your setup and work habits.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2006-04-24 06:21pm

I use a dinky $60 Logitech Wireless Keyboard/Mouse combo and never have problems with that, as long as I am not too far/close to the reciever, and the reciever isn't right next to my monitor(even two inches away it works, but right under it and its a bit wonky).

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-24 06:21pm

The MX1000 is heavy? Significantly more so than the MX700? Did they put a weight in it or something? Now that I've seen the G7, my inner gadget fiend wants one. Only one thumb button though... but I love the four-way scroll on Apple mice.

Trogdor · Post by **Trogdor** » 2006-04-24 06:38pm

I tried out a wireless mouse, and the lag could indeed be annoying when I was gaming. However, it was an old model; something I bought real cheap to go with my laptop. More modern wireless mice may very well not have this problem.

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-04-24 10:51pm

You know, it's a little odd. I've got an MX700 which I used to use for gaming until I got my mx518, I never noticed any sort of lag. On the other hand a fellow at work had a mx700 of a slightly different variant (this one had two lights in the front), and I find it extremely laggy.

Just did a test between my Mx518, Mx700 and my roommate's microsoft wireless mouse (small one with the USB plug that fits inside the mouse when not in use).
Things I noticed; the mx700 is MUCH heavier, especially compared to the 518; it is entirely the batteries, when I took them out, it felt like the proper weight. Also, the pads on the microsoft cheap mouse weren't quite as good, and had a little drag; but the mouse itself didn't get any lag that I could notice. To be honest; I think it might have more to do with the computer than the mouse.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-24 10:54pm

That's interesting. The MX518 is a later model than the MX700, isn't it? The newer mice apparently use a different transmission band, and the G7 I was looking at (lol, mouse named after Western economic hegemony) is apparently uses enough bandwidth to be USB2.

I'm not sure if my MX700 has any lights on the front. Mine has the 'battery low' red light on top below the mousewheel, and the charger has a single light that flashes when you press 'connect'. I didn't think they'd release product revisions to a mouse!

Dillon · Post by **Dillon** » 2006-04-24 11:31pm

I don't know the model number of mine, but I know it's a Logitech and the mouse(optical) and keyboard tend to lag. Quite annoying during gaming, but then again, it only was about $60, so I guess you get what you pay for.

EDIT: Hey, is it true that it's supposed to help with reception if you have less electronic devices around the keyboard/mouse and the reciever thingy?

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2006-04-25 12:05am

The MX518 is wired. Lovely mouse; too bad I lose it and was just forced to get a G5.

I still miss the glossier MX518 finish though.

Post by **weemadando** » 2006-04-25 12:06am

Playing at a LAN you will often notice problems with wireless setups due to conflicts.

Also, some of the wireless setups are just retarded (not because of problems with wireless, but they seem to have some STUPID features that regular wired products don't have).

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2006-04-25 12:12am

I love my MX 518. Its perfect for what I want. Plenty of buttons and the ability to change sensitivity. Its light as hell and the cord NEVER gets in the way when you know how to position it.

The Logitech G5 just doesn't work well for me. The scroll weel is hard as hell to push, the rough surface isn't comfortable, and the missing second thumb button irritates me. The MX 518 is the only mouse I will use.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-25 12:15am

Yeah, one of the things mentioned in the G7 review was that the M3 button wasn't as hard to use as the G5. I'm used to two thumb buttons, though.

What's 'light' when it comes to mice? I'm used to the MX700, but other tell me it's quite heavy, and I've apparently got it set very sensitive (I like to be able to turn 180 without moving my wrist). I guess with a cord MX518s would weigh about as much as regular oldscore 2-button mice?

InnocentBystander · Post by **InnocentBystander** » 2006-04-25 03:05am

Stark wrote:Yeah, one of the things mentioned in the G7 review was that the M3 button wasn't as hard to use as the G5. I'm used to two thumb buttons, though.

What's 'light' when it comes to mice? I'm used to the MX700, but other tell me it's quite heavy, and I've apparently got it set very sensitive (I like to be able to turn 180 without moving my wrist). I guess with a cord MX518s would weigh about as much as regular oldscore 2-button mice?

Not remembering what ball mice weigh, I couldn't say. But to get a better understanding of their weight; remove the batteries from your mx700; that is roughly what a wired mouse 'aut to weigh.

And yes, mx518 is great; never tried the G5; but the MX518 is simply perfect. I can't think of anything more I'd need out of a mouse.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2006-04-25 08:11am

Been using wireless mice for a while and the only annoying thing is when the battery gives out in the middle of a game, leading to a mad scramble to find some replacement AA's.

Arrow · Post by **Arrow** » 2006-04-25 08:43am

I have an MX518 at home, and a 510 at work (which the 518 replaced), and my parents have a 700 (or it might be its predecessor - I can't remember). All three are excellent mice. Really, any high bandwidth isn't going to have noticable lag. There is latency in converting the wireless signal to USB, but with any receiver that updates quickly, you're not going to notice it.

Jaepheth · Post by **Jaepheth** » 2006-04-25 08:59am

I think it's a matter of taste.

Me and wireless technology have a very bad history, so I find I'm usually prejudiced against it.

That, and I hate having to use batteries.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2006-04-25 09:19am

Old old cheap POS wireless mice had a lower sample rate and lower resolution. Buy cheap 1st edition hardware, and what the hell do you expect?

That and most gamers are fucking morons when it comes to computers

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2006-04-25 03:09pm

I prefer wired simply due to the batteries factor. They always know when to die at the most inopportune time, plus they don't last as long as they used to.

I have an MX310 (wired USB) and it has a much better resolution (which translates to accuracy, both in Quake and in MSPaint!) and sample rate (smoothness and speed) than our other Logitech Mini-mouse. It's pretty light, too.

White Haven · Post by **White Haven** » 2006-04-25 03:32pm

I've got two wireless mice on my systems, an MX700 and a G7. Both are unbelievably beautiful mice...the G7 gulps power, as it doesn't turn itself off, but as a result there's zero lag on the first movement. Powerhungry as it is, it'll last at least a day or two, and it comes with two very easily-swapped battery packs, with the receiver as the charging station. Takes maybe ten-fifteen seconds to swap out. I do miss the second thumb-button, though.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-25 07:07pm

I read about the G7 not turning itself off. Seems crazy to me: I only notice a brief moment - certainly not a second - of wakeup time on the MX700, and that only if I've not moved the mouse in a very long time as FPSs go. How many hours of proper gaming use would you get out of each power pack?

The second thumb button has killed my desire to upgrade my mouse at the moment. Logitech removed it due to complaints from people who pressed the wrong one (idiots), and now they get five times the complaints from people who want it back. So I'll wait for the G9.

The battery-changing issue is why I paid AU$200 for my MX700 - I was sick to death of buying/changing batteries. The charging stand lets you keep the mouse fully charged pretty much all the time - although frankly, a fucking cable you plug in (mobile phone style) would be a much better solution. You could even imagine it was wired when you plugged it in to charge. Damn electrical contacts on the stand are constantly requiring cleaning.

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » 2006-04-25 09:11pm

My major concern with wireless mice is the weight from the batteries which really matters when you are a competative fps gamer. I play Day of Defeat for several online leagues and ladders, and I've voided the warrenty on my mx510 by taking it apart and taking out the little 20 oz broze weight inside just to get the extra edge on reaction speed. I've never had any problem with the cord and I don't like messing around with batteries so I don't really have a need for a cordless mouse