Wireless Mice and Gaming - Huh?

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-25 09:17pm

600g? Why would they add weight?

On the other hand, the MX700 is apparently heavy, and I seriously doubt this puts me at a disadvantage. Then again, it doesn't feel like the whole MX700 unit, including batteries, weighs 600g.

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » 2006-04-25 09:33pm

oops my bad, I meant 15-20 gram weight. It is in there to "balance" the mouse and sits on top right where you palm rests.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-25 09:36pm

That sounds like an odd thing to do. My MX700 seems to weigh about 400-500g and it's center of mass appears to be in the rough middle of the device almost at the bottom. I don't get it. More gamer 'computer bling bling' mentality? Do you seriously think removing a 20g weight makes any difference?

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » 2006-04-25 09:44pm

This is mainly for older mice like my mx510, I believe the newer ones don't come with any weights. Anyhow for me it really does matter because dod is very deathmatchy, unlike most of the other WW2 shooters out there all the guns are all very powerful and accurate. The weakest gun still only takes 4 hits to kill so any delay in getting your crosshair on the enemy's head counts, especially against the skilled competition I often have to go against. But for the vast majority of gamers I doubt it'll really matter.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-25 09:56pm

Well you're talking to the wrong guy. Cry l33t skillz all you want, I doubt there is any measurable difference due to twenty whole grams of weight. Indeed, since MX700 users are used to heavier weights, surely they'd have finer control than someone using a tiny notebook mouse? I play many different FPSs, and I'm not constantly being out-reacted by people with lighter mice.

Also, my poking suggested that one of the newer, corded 'gamer' mice comes with some kind of adjustable weight thing for not only changing the weight but it's distribution. I find all this increasingly absurd - the weights are tiny lead things, and I doubt a full load would weigh more then 40-50g. The addition of larger feet is probably a far more useful modification.

LuigiSexpistols · Post by **LuigiSexpistols** » 2006-04-26 05:55am

I used to think that wireless mice weren't up to scratch (not entirely unfounded; my mate had an older logitech which was awful in the situation he used it in). Then I got an MX1000, and damn is it good. Dunno what everyone's complaining about, with all this talk of weight and lag, etc.

I actually used my old wired mouse the other day, while the mx1000 was charging, and it wasn't really noticably lighter. And what's lag?

And lastly, I dunno what all this talk about "wake-up time" is, but I can tell you the mx1000 wakes up instantly, and it turns off while it's not in use.

Go Logitech, go wireless!

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-26 06:19am

The only time I get the 'wake up' thing is when I've left the computer to do something else, and come back. It doesn't immediately respond.

This weight thing fascinates me. Artificial weights in corded mice? Balancing weights in cordless mice? Does it *do* anything?

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » 2006-04-26 10:32am

Stark wrote:Well you're talking to the wrong guy. Cry l33t skillz all you want, I doubt there is any measurable difference due to twenty whole grams of weight. Indeed, since MX700 users are used to heavier weights, surely they'd have finer control than someone using a tiny notebook mouse? I play many different FPSs, and I'm not constantly being out-reacted by people with lighter mice.

Also, my poking suggested that one of the newer, corded 'gamer' mice comes with some kind of adjustable weight thing for not only changing the weight but it's distribution. I find all this increasingly absurd - the weights are tiny lead things, and I doubt a full load would weigh more then 40-50g. The addition of larger feet is probably a far more useful modification.

Its like jogging daily with ankle weights and removing them after a month, you feel lighter and more responsive. Believe what you wish. I find having all the weight on the bottom instead of the top to be more comfortable and have smoother movement. And taking off 10% of the weight can't hurt either

brianeyci · Post by **brianeyci** » 2006-04-26 10:46am

It matters for people with skinny wrists and weaker hands like me

.

Brian

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-26 05:36pm

mizuno wrote: Its like jogging daily with ankle weights and removing them after a month, you feel lighter and more responsive. Believe what you wish. I find having all the weight on the bottom instead of the top to be more comfortable and have smoother movement. And taking off 10% of the weight can't hurt either

I still don't think I'm understanding you. On ALL mice, the weight is at the bottom - whether it's batteries or some of these fascinating artifical weights. Nobody is disputing that 20g lighter is 20g lighter - I seriously doubt it makes any actual differencein the field, however.

What's the go with changable DPS? I mean, really? Moving vs sniping? I use super-sensitive DPS all the time, and I don't notice any difficulty with fine work. I guess the inertia of my massive mouse makes it easier, and the quick turns are just as fast.

LeftWingExtremist · Post by **LeftWingExtremist** » 2006-04-26 05:47pm

My desktop computer use to have a wireless but it kept running out of batteries I eventualy got fed up and got a normal mouse.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2006-04-26 05:57pm

I just bought a 4 pack of AA batteries and a cheap $6 charger. I keep the charger plugged in near my desk with two of the batteries plugged into it and when the batteries in the mouse die, I just swap them with the ones in the charger. It's been a perfect solution.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » 2006-04-26 08:36pm

I have an MS Wireless Optical 2.0 and lag is un-noticable even in fast paced FPS for me. I also have the companion wireless keyboard though, and I am convinced that there are issues with that, especially when it comes to unresponsive buttons or 'jamming' in terms of it not picking up certain key combinations etc in quick succession.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-26 09:34pm

Yeah, I used a wireless keyboard once. It was almost useless as a regular keyboard, let alone gaming. Even newer ones suck - a friend of mine has a Belkin K/M wireless and it's got just as many sticking keys, jams and absurdly short battery life.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2006-04-26 10:00pm

Stark wrote:That sounds like an odd thing to do. My MX700 seems to weigh about 400-500g and it's center of mass appears to be in the rough middle of the device almost at the bottom. I don't get it. More gamer 'computer bling bling' mentality? Do you seriously think removing a 20g weight makes any difference?

Better ease of movement, perhaps. I replaced my old mouse pad that was getting grimy recently with a new one, and I can feel a real difference. In any case, 20g less certainly won't hurt you. I've been thinking about getting a Razor Diamondback, from a friend who gets them cheap.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-26 10:14pm

I can totally agree with mousepads. Since my mouse is LED and not laser, it reacts (sometimes) to spots of dirt or slight changes in colour on my mousepad. Since it's unpredicatable it's horribly annoying.

But snagging your mousefoot on a clump of grime is going to be way more annoying than 'weighing 20g more'. The weight doesn't change, doesn't shift, doesn't surprise you, doesn't make the pointer jump all over the show, etc.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2006-04-26 10:26pm

The grime is more likely to cause more drag as the mouse slides over the surface.

How people can put up with crappy mousing surfaces is beyond me.

That and greasy mice from greasy hands really fucking angers me.

Naquitis · Post by **Naquitis** » 2006-04-26 10:28pm

Hmm well I've been suing ths Microsoft Elite Pro wireless keyboard and mouse combo I've got for ages. I have yet to have a problem with it, and I used to play Halo1 on the computer online all the time. Never experienced mouse lag, or keyboard lag. Been thinking about buying a new one, but I keep thinking, "if it's not broken, don't fix it." And since it's not broken, I don't need a new one. But I've had my eye on this new keyboard for a while, just don't like that it's wired, and I'd need to get a new wireless mouse if I bought it. But I've never been bothered by mouselag. I think it's one of those excuses like "OMG you cheat, you haxxored me." So instead you just say "Damnit, mouse lag."

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-26 10:33pm

Yeah, my pad is a grime magnet. I'm kind of hoping a newer mouse will care less about colour (the LED mouse doesn't like passing over darker lines) so I can just use it on my desks.

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » 2006-04-26 10:34pm

I never said you you can't lighten your mouse, keep your mousepads clean or get some mouse skates, and a nice mousepad for your sensitivity all at the same time for the best performance. Anyhow I don't see what the big deal is, 20g less can only help

Naquitis · Post by **Naquitis** » 2006-04-26 10:39pm

Stark wrote:Yeah, my pad is a grime magnet. I'm kind of hoping a newer mouse will care less about colour (the LED mouse doesn't like passing over darker lines) so I can just use it on my desks.

I'm using some cheapy mouse pad I got from PetsMart that I got after donating $5 to them for animals lost during Hurican Katrina.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-26 10:42pm

mizuno wrote:I never said you you can't lighten your mouse, keep your mousepads clean or get some mouse skates, and a nice mousepad for your sensitivity all at the same time for the best performance. Anyhow I don't see what the big deal is, 20g less can only help

Oh you're absolutely right - I just think it's strange that it's gone to the level of 'mouse tuning' with mice sold specifically for gamers with adjustable weights etc. Next they'll put spoilers on or something.

Mouse skates? Like, better feet? I notice the newer mice seem to be moving toward fewer, huge feet than the four tiny ones mine has.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2006-04-26 11:09pm

Naquitis wrote:Hmm well I've been suing ths Microsoft Elite Pro wireless keyboard and mouse combo I've got for ages. I have yet to have a problem with it, and I used to play Halo1 on the computer online all the time. Never experienced mouse lag, or keyboard lag. Been thinking about buying a new one, but I keep thinking, "if it's not broken, don't fix it." And since it's not broken, I don't need a new one. But I've had my eye on this new keyboard for a while, just don't like that it's wired, and I'd need to get a new wireless mouse if I bought it. But I've never been bothered by mouselag. I think it's one of those excuses like "OMG you cheat, you haxxored me." So instead you just say "Damnit, mouse lag."

Well, mouse lag does exist - on some old computers, processing mouse movements takes a small amount of processor time (Particularly PS/2), and in CPU-intensive games, the lag does pop up sometimes. As for the delay of wireless mice, I doubt it's attributed to the wireless nature of them. I know my friend's mouse started getting a bit sluggish when it's batteries were low. I'd say for most people though, mice/mousepads are probably on the lower end of the reasons they suck

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2006-04-27 12:45am

Exonerate wrote:Well, mouse lag does exist - on some old computers, processing mouse movements takes a small amount of processor time (Particularly PS/2), and in CPU-intensive games, the lag does pop up sometimes.

This type of "mouse lag" is because the cursor hasnt moved when the mouse has, probably because the game hasnt gottent around to updating the internal cursor graphics.

Now days the mouse graphics is, normally, rendered independantly of the actual game content. So the mouse moves as soon as the input hits the app. The game still doesnt notice the mouse input has changed until later.

But it looks like the mouse has moved, which is what is important.

Neko_Oni · Post by **Neko_Oni** » 2006-04-27 03:48am

I've got a Logitech MX3000 keyboard/mouse wireless setup. Works fine though I don't play FPS. The mouse's laser seems picky about what surface it's on. But apart from that no real problems.